Author Topic: TS100 doesn't function properly when earthed (Read 32923 times)

TuxKey · « **Reply #75 on:** May 14, 2018, 06:59:20 pm »

Thanks for explaining it again Gyro..Your patience is something to be admired..

Yesterday i was sharing parts of your post to a good friend of mine also looking to get the TS100..
i told him that i discovered a brand new Dell 19V power supply that was mains mains referenced.. so his reaction so you bought a power supply that was not and wasted money ??

After pausing for a min... i don't think getting the extra power supply with the correct plug was a waist of money. How would i solder the new cable without a working iron.. Also a good power supply and hopefully my new learned skill to solder my own connectors means this supply can be used with any other connector

One thing, i did sum googling about the function of the ferrite core. Wanting to know if i would cut a cable in the future would i do it before or after the ferrite core. Reading this i think after would be the correct way to go..
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/42212/why-do-some-laptop-charges-have-ferrite-cores-on-them?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa

Keeping in mind to keep the cable under 1m say 75cm.. For the new Power supply i'm getting i won't be cutting it but adding male / female just so i don't void the warranty .. in 2yr's i might do it .. but with the second Dell Supply i can cut it.. only question is what am i going to find in there.. meaning there is a blue led in the power plug don't know if that one has it.. but will see..

(time to order the silicone cable from ebay)..

xavkno · « **Reply #76 on:** May 14, 2018, 07:17:52 pm »

Anyone have a link to one of those del, power supplies as i can't find any genuine ones

Gyro · « **Reply #77 on:** May 14, 2018, 07:51:16 pm »

Quote from: TuxKey on May 14, 2018, 06:59:20 pm

Thanks for explaining it again Gyro..Your patience is something to be admired..

Thanks, I thought I was doing pretty well too.

Quote

Yesterday i was sharing parts of your post to a good friend of mine also looking to get the TS100..
i told him that i discovered a brand new Dell 19V power supply that was mains mains referenced.. so his reaction so you bought a power supply that was not and wasted money ??

After pausing for a min... i don't think getting the extra power supply with the correct plug was a waist of money. How would i solder the new cable without a working iron.. Also a good power supply and hopefully my new learned skill to solder my own connectors means this supply can be used with any other connector

One thing, i did sum googling about the function of the ferrite core. Wanting to know if i would cut a cable in the future would i do it before or after the ferrite core. Reading this i think after would be the correct way to go..
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/42212/why-do-some-laptop-charges-have-ferrite-cores-on-them?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa

Keeping in mind to keep the cable under 1m say 75cm.. For the new Power supply i'm getting i won't be cutting it but adding male / female just so i don't void the warranty .. in 2yr's i might do it .. but with the second Dell Supply i can cut it.. only question is what am i going to find in there.. meaning there is a blue led in the power plug don't know if that one has it.. but will see..

(time to order the silicone cable from ebay)..

just double check that the Dell PSU you found is a genuine Dell and not a "For Dell" no-brand aftermarket cheapie ones. As long as it shows a standard Dell label has Dell part no, ratings, approvals etc.

Regarding the ferrite core. It is nothing to worry about in terms of soldering iron use. If it us as the DC plug end of the lead, it was put there to reduce EMC emissions from the laptop anyway, not the PSU.

I just saw your latest PM $:-\$ - yes 1m maximum is ample for a useable length. Yes, the more you buy, the cheaper it gets - it's really down to you how much you buy... and if you have any other uses for burn-proof flex, or how many attempts you want.

TuxKey · « **Reply #78 on:** May 15, 2018, 08:49:39 am »

@ Rooster Cogburn,

Looking at you nice build,
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/msg1493014/#msg1493014

i was wondering if you could share sum info about it.

it looks like you used the white piece of this wire?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Twin-Core-Silicone-Rubber-Cable-2x0-4mm-Conductors-6amp-DC-Wiring-Cord/152000411964?hash=item2363ee393c:g:eBcAAOSwll1W1cRU

And i just found out that it’s called a Fork Terminal..And that red is 22-16 AWG according to this.
http://www.ferrulesdirect.com/electrical/VINYLINSULFORKTERM.htm

That seems to align with the product page of the “twin core Silicone Rubber cable” on ebay.
it says Conductor Size - 21 AWG..

checking for red fork wire connectors 22-16 AWG . 3.2mm is the smallest one i can find..

Just wanted to make sure..

Rooster Cogburn · « **Reply #79 on:** May 15, 2018, 11:59:48 pm »

I just used some stranded wire I had, the cable shoe was also one I had around, IIRC. I don't think it's particularly elegant as the fork cable shoe is quite bulky and I'd rather have a slimmer o-ring one, so I don't think it's worth trying to closely emulate what I build. I just used the parts I had, not the best ones I could find. As long as there's a solid connection between the ground screw and DC-, it shouldn't really matter much.

electrode · « **Reply #80 on:** September 13, 2018, 01:55:35 am »

Quote from: Gyro on April 13, 2018, 07:45:02 pm

In my iron (with and earthed brick) I have bridged across C26 to provide tip earthing without the inconvenience of a separate earth wire. There is a small voltage on the tip as a result of cable resistance, but it is very low. Obviously not something that you can consider until your PSU leakage issues and stability are under control.

Hi Gyro,
I was wondering – several months later – if you've had any ongoing issues with internally shorting this capacitor? I'm thinking of doing the same to mine, as an external wire seems clunky to me.

Also, do you tie your iron to a grounded ESD mat at all?

Edit: Is your earthed power brick also earthed via a 1MΩ resistor? That is the case for a Lenovo laptop supply I picked up. Trying to work out how best to make this thing ESD-safe, after killing 2 MOSFETs.

Gyro · « **Reply #81 on:** September 14, 2018, 10:24:26 am »

Hi electrode,

No, no problems. I use it most days. Yes, it's certainly the neatest way of doing it.

My ESD mat is grounded in the normal manner - IM $\$\Omega\$$ safety cord to Mains ground. No 'direct wire' connection between the iron and the mat. My power brick output is directly connected to mains ground however, no resistor.

Curious2know · « **Reply #82 on:** October 09, 2018, 05:33:53 pm »

Quote from: Gyro on April 13, 2018, 07:45:02 pm

In my iron (with and earthed brick) I have bridged across C26 to provide tip earthing without the inconvenience of a separate earth wire. There is a small voltage on the tip as a result of cable resistance, but it is very low. Obviously not something that you can consider until your PSU leakage issues and stability are under control.

Hi,

so I bought a brand new Meanwell 3-pin 24v PSU and I'm looking to use this solution, so I don't have a third wire attached to the iron. I took the TS-100 apart and I'm looking at the C26 capacitor. Do I need to remove it or can I just put a solder blob on top of it to short it?

Regards curious2know

Gyro · « **Reply #83 on:** October 09, 2018, 06:07:24 pm »

There's no need to physically remove C26 but attempting to puddle a solder blob on top of it is likely to come to a messy end. The easiest way is to tack solder a thin strand of wire across the top of the C26 - the easiest to reverse too.

P.S. As the board has probably gone through a few revisions (from the schematic I attached in Reply #3) it's worth a quick check that it is still C26. One end should go to the connector outer and the other to the tip barrel contact spring. It's pretty unlikely to have changed but better safe than sorry.

Curious2know · « **Reply #84 on:** October 09, 2018, 06:40:45 pm »

Hey thanks for your quick reply.
Well C26 came off when I tried to put a wire on top, so I just placed the wire there. Now when I measure the tip AC is jumping all over the place. $:-\$
Sometimes it settles for 27V

Edit: Yep 27V at the tip. Why could that be?

Gyro · « **Reply #85 on:** October 09, 2018, 07:59:05 pm »

Have you verified that the negative wire of the Meanwell PSU output is connected to mains ground (earth)?

Curious2know · « **Reply #86 on:** October 09, 2018, 08:08:07 pm »

Quote from: Gyro on October 09, 2018, 07:59:05 pm

Have you verified that the negative wire of the Meanwell output is connected to mains ground (earth)?

Shouldn't I get continuity between outer barrel of the connector and one of the 3-pin? Actually none of these show continuity between each other. What should I measure?

electrode · « **Reply #87 on:** October 09, 2018, 08:11:43 pm »

That's right, you should get continuity between the barrel of your supply and the earth pin on the mains plug. Try the resistance setting too, as some are connected via a (usually 1M) resistor.

Gyro · « **Reply #88 on:** October 09, 2018, 08:13:06 pm »

If you don't get continuity between the ground (earth) pin of the 3 pin connector and the output plug barrel then I'm afraid the PSU output is floating, not grounded. Continuity to the Live or Neutral pin would indicate a fault by the way.

With a floating PSU, I'm sorry to say that the only answer is to run a (flexible) ground wire to the TS100 ESD grounding point - or use a different PSU. Sorry.

Curious2know · « **Reply #89 on:** October 09, 2018, 08:20:54 pm »

So I tried both continuity and resistance. Nothing...
What about the inner part of the barrel connector? Shouldn't there also be continuity to some pin?

https://www.meanwell-web.com/content/files/pdfs/productPdfs/MW/GST90A/GST90A-spec.pdf

This is the one I got. I'm assuming "-V not connected to AC FG" is what I don't want to read?

Gyro · « **Reply #90 on:** October 09, 2018, 08:31:59 pm »

Yes, I'm afraid that's what you don't want to read - it confirms floating output. I have a vague memory of someone quoting the same PSU spec in this or another thread. It's rather silly of them to just casually mention it on the engineering drawing [Edit: too easy to miss there] rather than the spec, because it's important information .

No, you wouldn't expect to see any continuity to the barrel inner, you'll probably see something between barrel inner and outer while the output reservoir cap charges.

Sorry to state the obvious but you can only ground reference the tip if you have a ground reference.

I don't know if they do a grounded version. The other alternative is a genuine manufacturer (not copy) 3 pin laptop adapter off ebay, they usually have grounded output.

Curious2know · « **Reply #91 on:** October 09, 2018, 08:45:21 pm »

Sadly anything I can find only goes up to 19V.

Is it correct to assume that when I get the same resistance between tip and outer barrel of the soldering iron connector and tip and the ground screw at least my shunt works?
And can I still use the iron safely with the mod in place? I guess 27V is better than 115V?

I think I'll either get a battery pack now or invest in a proper station.

Gyro · « **Reply #92 on:** October 09, 2018, 09:22:18 pm »

19V will still give you a reasonable output power- 40W according to the manual. That's can be plenty for most things with the decent temperature regulation.

Yes, if you have continuity from the outer barrel to the ground screw and tip then your mod is successful.

The 27V you're seeing is high impedance - parasitic capacitive coupling across the internals of the PSU.

As I said before, if you earth the ground screw on the iron with a thin length of silicone lead then you can still have an ESD grounded tip with the Meanwell PSU.

It used to be the case that 2 pin PSUs suffered from (a safe level of) leakage and 3 pin had grounded outputs. Now it appears that some PSUs have 3 pin and some leakage (not sure how much less) - not a particularly helpful situation.

With C26 bypassed then at least you won't suffer from internal noise pickup and instability (the reason for the OP of this thread) if you use the grounding screw. It's worth giving it a try - you only need a thin ground wire so it shouldn't really get in the way if wrap it around the DC lead.

EDIT: Thinking about a convenient grounding point, you could maybe consider a rewireable IEC connector, eg. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-connectors/0488208/. You would need to be VERY careful that your ground lead could not come loose from the ground terminal and accidentally contact the live one, using careful sleeving and strain relief. Just an idea.

Curious2know · « **Reply #93 on:** October 10, 2018, 07:48:14 am »

Quote from: Gyro on October 09, 2018, 09:22:18 pm

EDIT: Thinking about a convenient grounding point, you could maybe consider a rewireable IEC connector, eg. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-connectors/0488208/. You would need to be VERY careful that your ground lead could not come loose from the ground terminal and accidentally contact the live one, using careful sleeving and strain relief. Just an idea.

I have a feeling I shouldn't be doing this. I'm really not qualified for this as total beginner hobbyist.

Back to the additional wire to the ground screw. Where do I connect the other end of the ground wire? I mean the power socket is completely blocked by the round plug.

Gyro · « **Reply #94 on:** October 10, 2018, 09:08:00 am »

I agree, if you are not absolutely confident in your abilities to wire such a mains IEC socket then you should avoid it. A clip to the chassis of a another piece of equipment (eg. bench PSU lid screw or earth terminal) would be safer for you.

Such an IEC socket connection would be possible though. It would require heatshrink sleeving to hold the incoming earth wire and TS100 earth wire together so that they could not drift apart if the terminal loosens. The wire could then be heatshrinked to the outer of the mains cable as it exits through the cable clamp and gland.

As I say, if you are not confident, then stick with the first approach.

Curious2know · « **Reply #95 on:** October 16, 2018, 07:56:19 pm »

https://www.banggood.com/CPS-3010-0-30V-0-10A-Compact-Digital-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-1066726.html?ID=47184

This is earthed right? I wanted to buy a cheap PSU anyway, so I guess I could use this?

kaevee · « **Reply #96 on:** October 17, 2018, 02:03:18 am »

Quote from: Curious2know on October 16, 2018, 07:56:19 pm

https://www.banggood.com/CPS-3010-0-30V-0-10A-Compact-Digital-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-1066726.html?ID=47184

This is earthed right? I wanted to buy a cheap PSU anyway, so I guess I could use this?

Checkout "MEAN WELL" brand. You can simply choose a single output model in NES-350 series. NES-350-24 gives you 24V/14.6A. It will cost you about $50 (https://www.amazon.com/Mean-NES-350-24-Switching-Power-Supply/dp/B00KTJE3L4).

They are reasonably priced and reliable.

https://www.meanwell.com/

Disclaimer: I have no relationship to company in question. We have used their products from long time.

Curious2know · « **Reply #97 on:** October 17, 2018, 08:22:10 am »

Maybe you misunderstood me. I need an adjustable power supply anyway. So the question is, will this give me the sought after earthed soldering iron tip? I guess yes, because from the teardown it looks like the earth connection is properly connected?

kaevee · « **Reply #98 on:** October 17, 2018, 10:42:06 am »

Quote from: Curious2know on October 17, 2018, 08:22:10 am

Maybe you misunderstood me. I need an adjustable power supply anyway. So the question is, will this give me the sought after earthed soldering iron tip? I guess yes, because from the teardown it looks like the earth connection is properly connected?

Sorry, I missed your requirement of adjustable power supply.

You guessed correctly. MeanWell has earth wired correctly.

Curious2know · « **Reply #99 on:** October 17, 2018, 10:43:32 am »

Quote from: kaevee on October 17, 2018, 10:42:06 am

Quote from: Curious2know on October 17, 2018, 08:22:10 am
Maybe you misunderstood me. I need an adjustable power supply anyway. So the question is, will this give me the sought after earthed soldering iron tip? I guess yes, because from the teardown it looks like the earth connection is properly connected?

Sorry, I missed your requirement of adjustable power supply.

You guessed correctly. MeanWell has earth wired correctly.

No, I meant the Gophert.


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Author Topic: TS100 doesn't function properly when earthed (Read 32923 times)

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