EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: DL8RI on February 19, 2014, 11:46:13 am
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Hi,
I'm moving soon and I will have a dedicated soldering/dirt-work and measurment-desk.
Therefore I need a second soldering-station for the measurement-desk. Now the question is... which one?
Right now I own a Weller WSD-81 (soldering) and WMD-3 (Tweezer, Desoldering, Hot-Air).
What I want:
A good station, no cheap crap.
Enough power to solder a bigger connector (e.g. N) onto a case.
A working(!) standby (therefore no PACE).
Wide selection of tips which don't cost a fortune.
Right now I favor the JBC CD-2BC. The fast Heatup&Standby is cool and i'ts much cheaper than the corresponding Weller. And I like the design.
But it has less power. I've never used the newest Wellers, are they worth the 100€ more? I've little experience with the JBC and up to now it was quite satisfying.
The station will be used if during a measurement I have to solder something. Therefore it will remain in standby most of the time.
Does anyone have other suggestions?
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You will NOT regret a JBC purchase :-+
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You will NOT regret a JBC purchase :-+
I 2nd this - amazing piece of equipment.
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ERSA i-Con with i-Tool. And since you're living also in 'Schland there are no problems with availability. BTW, ERSA is less expensive than Weller and delivers better tools, IMHO.
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JBC is very good, 2BC or maybe go for an D* series for expandability
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Hi,
I'm moving soon and I will have a dedicated soldering/dirt-work and measurment-desk.
Therefore I need a second soldering-station for the measurement-desk. Now the question is... which one?
Right now I own a Weller WSD-81 (soldering) and WMD-3 (Tweezer, Desoldering, Hot-Air).
What I want:
A good station, no cheap crap.
Enough power to solder a bigger connector (e.g. N) onto a case.
A working(!) standby (therefore no PACE).
Wide selection of tips which don't cost a fortune.
Right now I favor the JBC CD-2BC. The fast Heatup&Standby is cool and i'ts much cheaper than the corresponding Weller. And I like the design.
But it has less power. I've never used the newest Wellers, are they worth the 100€ more? I've little experience with the JBC and up to now it was quite satisfying.
The station will be used if during a measurement I have to solder something. Therefore it will remain in standby most of the time.
Does anyone have other suggestions?
Can you explain me why not the PACE?
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Another vote for JBC. :-+
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Hi,
thanks so far for your opinions. :)
Can you explain me why not the PACE?
The PACE-Station I used so far detected the "not usage" of the iron by the heating-power(?).
I had more than one time when soldering small SMD-Stuff the Standby activated while I was soldering.
And the esiest way to wake the station up was to turn it off and on... I don't like it.
Weller has build in a acceleration-sensor, Ersa seems to have a magnetic switch in their tools and JBC detects by the metal surface. Hakko uses a switch in the stand, which I think is not that great because of the cable laying around.
The iCon 1 could be an alternative to the JBC. Same price, similair features.
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ERSA i-Con with i-Tool. And since you're living also in 'Schland there are no problems with availability. BTW, ERSA is less expensive than Weller and delivers better tools, IMHO.
+1 for this. Have the Nano on my bench and it is really amazing.
J.
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ERSA i-Con with i-Tool.
I would take the ERSA i-con, too.
But I am biased, because I own with the 60W TECH TOOL
and the 20W MICRO TOOL tow ERSA irons, which I could
use together with the i-con 1 station :D
If you look on the Weidinger page, the JBC and the ERSA
are nearly the same price:
ERSA i-con 1 with 150W i-tool iron -> 330 Euro + VAT
JBC CD-2BC Kit with 50W AD-2200 iron -> 315 Euro + VAT
Weller WX-1 with 120W WXP iron -> 503 Euro + VAT
There is a i-con 1 set at Amazon for 330 Euro VAT included
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Weller has build in a acceleration-sensor
Depends on the iron being used.
Those used with the newer WX series do, but the WMP or WSP80/WP80 irons used with the WD series do not.
Setback with these irons when it's placed in the stand requires an optional Stop-n-Go stand (http://www.techni-tool.com/272SO1691) (uses a micro switch). At an additional $109 MSRP premium of course. And when you add that to the price of say a WD1002 (WD1 + WP80 iron), it's price is in line with a JBC compact station.
I would take the ERSA i-con, too.
But I am biased, because I own with the 60W TECH TOOL
and the 20W MICRO TOOL tow ERSA irons, which I could
use together with the i-con 1 station :D
If you look on the Weidinger page, the JBC and the ERSA
are nearly the same price:
ERSA i-con 1 with 150W i-tool iron -> 330 Euro + VAT
JBC CD-2BC Kit with 50W AD-2200 iron -> 315 Euro + VAT
Weller WX-1 with 120W WXP iron -> 503 Euro + VAT
There is a i-con 1 set at Amazon for 330 Euro VAT included
I'd see the Ersa as a direct competitor to a WD1002T (WD1 + WP80 iron + Stop-n-Go stand), and between them, would take a really long look at the Ersa before buying the Weller based on what I've read in other threads if I resided in the EU.
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Could someone please, suggest a station for 50- $75.00 price range I don't need anything elaborate I just can't stand the worthless tips on my cheap RS irons. ;D Even just an iron with good tips without a complete station of between 30-40 watt would be fine I have a small 15 watt iron for when I need it. :)
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Hi,
Those used with the newer WX series do, but the WMP or WSP80/WP80 irons used with the WD series do not.
yes of course :)
I was only looking at modern types, especially the ones with integrated heater/tip.
After looking at the Manual it seems the Ersa i-Tool (i-why i-always i-a i-stupid i? ;) ) has also an accelerometer. Hmm... has someone had both, the JBC and the Ersa?
Since they are on-par price-wise it's not a really easy decision.
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JBC has am amazing variety of tips, I don't know about the Ersa so if it matters you should check.
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Could someone please, suggest a station for 50- $75.00 price range I don't need anything elaborate I just can't stand the worthless tips on my cheap RS irons. ;D Even just an iron with good tips without a complete station of between 30-40 watt would be fine I have a small 15 watt iron for when I need it. :)
If you can extend your budget a bit, then you should pick up a new Hakko FX-888D (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle-cutter/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392837012&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+fx-888d) ($91.34; includes a free pair of cutters and free shipping). Fry's has them for less for local stock only (http://www.frys.com/product/6508443?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG) ($85 local vs. $100 online).
Another alternative, would be get a good used station. Just be sure that it has all the parts you need to make it work (you'll see a lot of bases without irons). Brands to look at would be Weller, JBC, Hakko, Pace, Ersa, Zephyrtronics, and Metcal (tips set the temp on these, not controls on the station; so if you need more than one temp for a particular tip, you'll need one tip per temp that you need <they offer 600, 700, & 800F>).
Either way, you get a proper temperature controlled station, and there are plenty of tip profiles. Also, make sure you get genuine tips, particularly in the case of Hakko, as they're highly faked. Best to avoid eBay IMHO.
I was only looking at modern types, especially the ones with integrated heater/tip.
After looking at the Manual it seems the Ersa i-Tool (i-why i-always i-a i-stupid i? ;) ) has also an accelerometer. Hmm... has someone had both, the JBC and the Ersa?
Since they are on-par price-wise it's not a really easy decision.
Tip costs could be what swing it, as JBC uses the more expensive cartridge types, while Ersa's are just plated copper depending on funds for consumables (20 - 30EUR for JBC's vs, what, 5 - 6EUR for Ersa's ?).
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I don't know about the Ersa so if it matters you should check.
With the i-Tool iron you can use all the tips from the Ersa 102 series.
At the moment there are ~40 different tips within the 102 series available.
This includes the three special PowerWell Tips 0102WDLF16, 0102WDLF23,
0102WDLF35 with a concave fillet design, especially for drag soldering.
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5 - 6EUR for Ersa's ?).
No, forget it, not for the 102 series i-tool tips :(
The 102 series are Ersadur tips with a chromium plated
nickel, iron, copper core.
The prices are between 10 and 25 Euros
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Could someone please, suggest a station for 50- $75.00 price range I don't need anything elaborate I just can't stand the worthless tips on my cheap RS irons. ;D Even just an iron with good tips without a complete station of between 30-40 watt would be fine I have a small 15 watt iron for when I need it. :)
If you can extend your budget a bit, then you should pick up a new Hakko FX-888D (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle-cutter/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392837012&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+fx-888d) ($91.34; includes a free pair of cutters and free shipping). Fry's has them for less for local stock only (http://www.frys.com/product/6508443?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG) ($85 local vs. $100 online).
Another alternative, would be get a good used station. Just be sure that it has all the parts you need to make it work (you'll see a lot of bases without irons). Brands to look at would be Weller, JBC, Hakko, Pace, Ersa, Zephyrtronics, and Metcal (tips set the temp on these, not controls on the station; so if you need more than one temp for a particular tip, you'll need one tip per temp that you need <they offer 600, 700, & 800F>).
Either way, you get a proper temperature controlled station, and there are plenty of tip profiles. Also, make sure you get genuine tips, particularly in the case of Hakko, as they're highly faked. Best to avoid eBay IMHO.
I was only looking at modern types, especially the ones with integrated heater/tip.
After looking at the Manual it seems the Ersa i-Tool (i-why i-always i-a i-stupid i? ;) ) has also an accelerometer. Hmm... has someone had both, the JBC and the Ersa?
Since they are on-par price-wise it's not a really easy decision.
Tip costs could be what swing it, as JBC uses the more expensive cartridge types, while Ersa's are just plated copper depending on funds for consumables (20 - 30EUR for JBC's vs, what, 5 - 6EUR for Ersa's ?).
Thanks for the advice! :-+
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5 - 6EUR for Ersa's ?).
No, forget it, not for the 102 series i-tool tips :(
The 102 series are Ersadur tips with a chromium plated
nickel, iron, copper core.
The prices are between 10 and 25 Euros
Up to 25EUR per for a small piece of plated copper? Ouch!
Thanks for the advice! :-+
You're welcome. :)
Not a big jump from your listed budget, and it will be well worth it IMHO. Excellent performance for the money, lots of tip profiles available, and genuine Hakko tips last a good long time with proper care (keep it tinned). ;)
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At the moment my tendency has turned a little bit away from JBC right to the ERSA, just because you can get ERSA in Germany on every corner and JBC is a little bit hard to get. Weidinger has it, but won't sell to private. :--
Also I really don't like the shocking cheap connector of the JBC-Iron, same level as Hakko. I'll never understand why they do that... questionable in the long-term. On the other hand I don't like the "screw on" Tip-holders (my WS80 has ist to), in this respect I favor the JBC.
But now I'm picking on details ;) I think I can't make the decision on Paper-Data... there's nothing that big.
I would love to read a opinion of someone who has used the JBC and the ERSA. I've used the JBC (made my company buy one :D ), despite the crappy connector it's great. But I never touched the ERSA. :(
But, well, I can't hope for that. Does someone own the i-Con?
BTW, the Tips are roundabout 10€:
http://www.reichelt.de/ERSA-Ersatzspitzen-u-Zubehoer/I-TIP-CD-16/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=4115&ARTICLE=69206&SHOW=1&OFFSET=500& (http://www.reichelt.de/ERSA-Ersatzspitzen-u-Zubehoer/I-TIP-CD-16/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=4115&ARTICLE=69206&SHOW=1&OFFSET=500&)
Except some special-types of course :)
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We have JBC and Metcal irons at work. Personally I prefer the Metcal irons, but the JBCs work well.
I did an unboxing of my personal MX-5200 iron here: Metcal MX-5251 (MX-5200) Unboxing and First Impressions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0BME82zTUI#ws)
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Up to 25EUR per for a small piece of plated copper? Ouch!
Yes, but the tips from the 102 series are cheap :D
For my Mirco Tool iron I need the tips from the 212 series
which are a lot smaller then the 102 series
But the 212WD tip I use for drag soldering is around 45 Euro,
for one small tip, you can buy a whole no name station
for that price :)
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Personally I prefer the Metcal irons, but the JBCs work well.
Yes, but the Metcal stations are really hard to get here in germany.
Weidinger sells Metcal too, but only to companies not to private buyers.
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At the moment my tendency has turned a little bit away from JBC right to the ERSA, just because you can get ERSA in Germany on every corner and JBC is a little bit hard to get.
Availability means a lot, so I can understand your POV.
I'd have thought JBC would be relatively easy to find though, as they're located in the EU (Spain). :-//
Back when I purchased my current Weller, consumables costs, availability, and past experience heavily influenced my decision process. Not the same company these days though, going by the QC issues that have cropped up. Namely tips in my case, but even the electronics inside are Asian manufactured. Final assembly is done in Germany, so I guess that met the "significant transformation" rules that apply to making it qualify for "Made in Germany".
If I had it to do over again, I'd go for JBC (has become more available in the US since 2008).
Weidinger has it, but won't sell to private. :--
Also I really don't like the shocking cheap connector of the JBC-Iron, same level as Hakko. I'll never understand why they do that... questionable in the long-term. On the other hand I don't like the "screw on" Tip-holders (my WS80 has ist to), in this respect I favor the JBC.
That sucks when companies won't sell to individuals. ::) :(
Even the connector on my current Weller isn't awe inspiring IMHO, and although it is a locking type, it seems rather fragile to me. Not had any issues, but it's not abused either as it would be in a production setting.
I would love to read a opinion of someone who has used the JBC and the ERSA. I've used the JBC (made my company buy one :D ), despite the crappy connector it's great. But I never touched the ERSA. :(
Only one place to get Ersa here (they have a US office; no 3rd party distributors), so they don't have much presence in the US at all.
Between JBC and Weller, JBC's performance wins in my experience, and the tips from what I understand, are quite decent regarding lifespan. Not so much with some of the LT series I've had. >:(
BTW, the Tips are roundabout 10€:
http://www.reichelt.de/ERSA-Ersatzspitzen-u-Zubehoer/I-TIP-CD-16/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=4115&ARTICLE=69206&SHOW=1&OFFSET=500& (http://www.reichelt.de/ERSA-Ersatzspitzen-u-Zubehoer/I-TIP-CD-16/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=4115&ARTICLE=69206&SHOW=1&OFFSET=500&)
Except some special-types of course :)
Not too terrible, but still ~ double the cost of similar profiles for Weller's LT series (~5EUR for a simple profile for a plated bit of copper is worth IMHO).
But the 212WD tip I use for drag soldering is around 45 Euro,
for one small tip, you can buy a whole no name station
for that price :)
:-DD
But will the no-name station come even close to the performance of the Ersa though? Or the cheaper tip last as long?
Assuming the tips will last a long time (no reason to think otherwise), it's probably still a better value just on tip cost alone in favor of Ersa (n cheap tips adding up to more than 1x drag tip for the Ersa over the latter's lifespan).
Just a guess of course, but based on what I've seen of cheap no-name stations (too many going "POOF" in under a year for my taste).
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But, well, I can't hope for that. Does someone own the i-Con?
Yes, i-Con2 with i-Tool and ChipTool. I'm quite happy with that soldering station and it has some nice features like the selectable control loop (high overshoot, small overshoot and no overshoot) and a warning if the temperature is outside a specific window. You can adjust standby time and temperature, also power-off time. And the i-Tool is really fast in heating up.
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I'd say most ceapies die even before one high quality tip does ;)
As far as tip-costs are concerned, I replace my "main Tip" (2mm chisel) every -maybe- 3 oder 4 Years. I do nearly no lead-free stuff.
Even if it would be 20€, it would not ruin me :)
Weller is also "out" for me, not because I've had issues with them, both my WS81 and my WMD3 perform well. And I haven't had any quality-issues with LT-Tips so far. But they are too expensive, a Weller WX1 without Iron costs the same as an i-Con with Iron. And I refuse to believe it will perform 100€ better ;)
I'd have thought JBC would be relatively easy to find though, as they're located in the EU (Spain).
No, nowhere. Not even at RS-Components or Farnell. I could get it from some commercial eBay-Seller.
Only one place to get Ersa here (they have a US office; no 3rd party distributors), so they don't have much presence in the US at all.
Today they seem to be more in the Production-Line-Buisness not so much in hand tools. The hand-tools are most likely a little side-kick to be able to deliver a full production-site including hand-rework. Maybe that's the cause why they don't really care about 3rd-Party-Distributers. :-//
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And the i-Tool is really fast in heating up.
Great :)
Have you used it for some "hard work" like shielding-cases? How did it perform there?
I'm quite happy with that soldering station and it has some nice features like the selectable control loop (high overshoot, small overshoot and no overshoot) and a warning if the temperature is outside a specific window. You can adjust standby time and temperature, also power-off time.
I've downloaded the Manual, looks pretty neat. :)
I've never thought I'd end up with ERSA with this Thread. ;D
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Have you used it for some "hard work" like shielding-cases? How did it perform there?
I've soldered a lot of large connectors without any problems, takes just a moment longer. Same for stuff on ground planes.
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Today they seem to be more in the Production-Line-Buisness not so much in hand tools. The hand-tools are most likely a little side-kick to be able to deliver a full production-site including hand-rework. Maybe that's the cause why they don't really care about 3rd-Party-Distributers. :-//
Quite possible.
But given that their hand stations do apparently work so well, I'd think that they're thought of better than "just some measly little side line" by executive management. Not as much profit per unit by a long shot vs. the large production systems they sell, but I'd think they'd be able to sell enough that it's quite worth their while.
I'm interested in the features (over shoot settings in particular) and would like to give one a try just to see. Unfortunately, this isn't likely to happen due to such little presence here.
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I'm interested in the features (over shoot settings in particular) and would like to give one a try just to see.
Here (on page 2 and 3) you will find a short explanation
about the temperature overshoot control.
It's a marketing brochure :-\ but I can't find any
better description, which is written in english.
http://www.ersa.com/media/pdf/fachartikel/fachartikel_englisch/improving_hand_soldering_operational_costs_and_process_control_2.pdf (http://www.ersa.com/media/pdf/fachartikel/fachartikel_englisch/improving_hand_soldering_operational_costs_and_process_control_2.pdf)
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I'm interested in the features (over shoot settings in particular) and would like to give one a try just to see.
Here (on page 2 and 3) you will find a short explanation
about the temperature overshoot control.
It's a marketing brochure :-\ but I can't find any
better description, which is written in english.
http://www.ersa.com/media/pdf/fachartikel/fachartikel_englisch/improving_hand_soldering_operational_costs_and_process_control_2.pdf (http://www.ersa.com/media/pdf/fachartikel/fachartikel_englisch/improving_hand_soldering_operational_costs_and_process_control_2.pdf)
Thanks. :)
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JBC has am amazing variety of tips, I don't know about the Ersa so if it matters you should check.
Yes, and good tips from JBC also: http://instagram.com/p/knXjb8jOkp/ (http://instagram.com/p/knXjb8jOkp/)
Cost an arm and a leg though, but they supposedly have good life, and it's day and night from an hakko888/936, really happy about my choice, even for hobby use.
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Personally I prefer the Metcal irons, but the JBCs work well.
Yes, but the Metcal stations are really hard to get here in germany.
Weidinger sells Metcal too, but only to companies not to private buyers.
Farnell/Element14 will ship to Germany. Their prices are fairly competitive on the Metcal irons.
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is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?
No JBC is too.
Update:
I stand corrected. Sorry my bad. Thanks guys for the detailed explanations.
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Hi!
Farnell/Element14 will ship to Germany. Their prices are fairly competitive on the Metcal irons.
Yes, nearly the same price, a bit cheaper.
What for my intended use is quite a setback of the Metcals (at least the MFR-1100) in comparison to the Ersa or JBC is the Standby. It goes int a "sleep-mode" immediately after I put the Iron into the stand, but stays hot for two hours and then goes into hibernate. Two hours is quite long, and the only way to wake it up again is to turn it off and on. The other two can be configured to go into hibernate quite quick, but wake up on removing the Iron from the stand.
In this domain JBC is the King. ERSA has the features but is not fast enough. With it, I'll have to wait a few seconds.
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is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?
No JBC is too.
Not so.
JBC is resistive heating, the heater element is also the thermocouple that measures temperature.
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Found this Video stating why Metcal is better than a Hakko 936 :D
OK International ??????????? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKOXl5Qhqnw#)
I find it a quite interesting that Metcal also regulates the Temperature via the Curie-Effect. Just like the good old Weller TCP "click".
Of course the heating and regulating mechanism is different :)
As far as I know Metcal is the only company using RF-Heaters. Simply because all the others have DIN-Plugs on their Irons and DIN and RF are definitively incompatible.
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im now being amazed by metcal after looking at what it is in youtube. is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?
Thermaltronics (http://www.thermaltronics.com/products.php) and Weller (WTCPT (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WTCPT-Temperature-Controlled-Soldering/dp/B00004W463)) also offer Curie Point based stations.
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is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?
No JBC is too.
JBC does not use inductive heating. It has just a "regular" heating element. The trick is that the element is integrated to the tip (forming a cartridge) and the temperature sensor (a thermocouple joint formed inside the tip) is a part of the heating element itself.
Btw. there is at least http://www.thermaltronics.com/ (http://www.thermaltronics.com/) which makes induction soldering irons. I think I read that the founder of that company had something to do with Metcal. Also some chinese copies on eBay.
As far as I know Metcal is the only company using RF-Heaters. Simply because all the others have DIN-Plugs on their Irons and DIN and RF are definitively incompatible.
Hmm? I'm quite sure the Metcal (well OKi actually) I had (before I bought a proper soldering iron, JBC ;) ) had a DIN-plug.
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Hmm? I'm quite sure the Metcal (well OKi actually) I had (before I bought a proper soldering iron, JBC ;) ) had a DIN-plug.
That's the low frequency system from Metcal. The "normal" ones (STSS/RFG30, MX500, MX5000 series) use 13.56 MHz and have a F connector.
Greetings,
Chris
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There are basically two variations of inductive soldering irons. 4xxkHz (I've seen datasheets/manuals for 400, 420 and 470) and then the 13.56MHz variants. 13.56MHz variants all seem to use f-type connectors, and the 4xxkHz appear to all use the DIN connectors. All the higher end stations also appear to all be 13.56MHz systems.
Most likely the difference in connectors&cabling relate to the skin effect, which at 13.56MHz is a bit of a problem compared to at 4xxkHz. don't remember the damned graphs but 470kHz (highest kHz-range irons I've seen), skin effect shouldn't be too bad which is why DIN connectors can be used.
As for Metcal and Thermaltronics, they're basically playing in the same sandbox together. IIRC, some people forked out of Metcal and left to start Thermaltronics. after that, their technologies were basically developed in parallel and there's a lot of inter-compatibility between them.
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Hi!
Farnell/Element14 will ship to Germany. Their prices are fairly competitive on the Metcal irons.
Yes, nearly the same price, a bit cheaper.
What for my intended use is quite a setback of the Metcals (at least the MFR-1100) in comparison to the Ersa or JBC is the Standby. It goes int a "sleep-mode" immediately after I put the Iron into the stand, but stays hot for two hours and then goes into hibernate. Two hours is quite long, and the only way to wake it up again is to turn it off and on. The other two can be configured to go into hibernate quite quick, but wake up on removing the Iron from the stand.
In this domain JBC is the King. ERSA has the features but is not fast enough. With it, I'll have to wait a few seconds.
I don't think you should worry too much about the sleep mode. The cartridges last ages if properly cared for, and the low power mode keeps them low enough in temperature that they may as well be off from an oxidisation point of view. One of my colleagues left one on for nearly a month in low power (didn't have a sleep mode) and the tip didn't suffer at all.
Personally I'd stick to the Metcal irons over the OKi ones (MFR etc.)
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ERSA i-Con with i-Tool. And since you're living also in 'Schland there are no problems with availability. BTW, ERSA is less expensive than Weller and delivers better tools, IMHO.
Another vote for the iCon here.
After getting spoilt by the JBC irons at my university, I decided my Aoyue iron wasn't really up to scratch, and I should purchase a proper iron. I looked at JBCs, but I'm not a fan of the stand being built in to the control panel (their Compact line), and the price was a bit rich for their Modular line. I ended up getting an Ersa iCon - and I can genuinely recommend it over a JBC.
It's true it's a little slower to get up to temperature, but the iTool soldering iron is one of the nicest I've held - very small, light, tiny grip-to-tip distance, super flexible cable - and all that while delivering up to 150W and the handle not getting hot. I've got tips ranging from a 0.4mm point to a 12mm chisel, and they all perform brilliantly. It has an accelerometer in the handle, and goes to sleep after a set time when you put it down.
Andy
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Personally I'd stick to the Metcal irons over the OKi ones (MFR etc.)
I often read that. But a MX-5XXX-Station is with Tax at around 650€. And that nearly doubles the price of the two others. :(
After getting spoilt by the JBC irons at my university, I decided my Aoyue iron wasn't really up to scratch, and I should purchase a proper iron. I looked at JBCs, but I'm not a fan of the stand being built in to the control panel (their Compact line), and the price was a bit rich for their Modular line. I ended up getting an Ersa iCon - and I can genuinely recommend it over a JBC.
Thank you for your answer. :) As you had the chance to test both, that's quite interesting :)
Although I know there's not that much space in this "High-End"-Area between manufacturers.
I think I'll get a ERSA i-Con 1 soon. It's the easiest to get here in Germany, is perfectly in my price-range and has some nice features. Starting this thread I was quite sure to get a JBC, but the discussion changed my mind. :-+
Despite my choice I want to thank all of you for the nice discussion and your replies. :) :)
And I thank all "everything-else-is-shit"-fanboys for not writing even one single post here in this thread ;) :clap:
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If you go for the i-Con with the i-Tool I recommend to get some additional tip fasteners for your convenience. They are about EUR 5 each and available in two colors (black 3IT1040-00 and green 3IT1045-00). The green ones are meant for tips used only for lead-free solder. I bought mine from Reichelt. They don't offer them in their online shop but will get them from ERSA for you (also special tips). There's a dedicated ERSA online shop (www.ersa-shop.de (http://www.ersa-shop.de), fair prices) but I don't got any experience with that one.
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You should go old models, unless you really have money to burn for spiffy new design and not that much difference in power (unless you use those ginormous tips (think quad tips for metcal) or those JBC C470 tips which can deliver 250W with appropriate station).
I'd suggest trolling around ebay, or whatever other resource there is over there for used items searching for something like a Metcal STSS, JBC AD(2700/2910/2950/4200/4300) [AD prefixes each number]. The lowest I've ever seen an STSS + pencil go was 135$, still requires a standby stand. The lowest I've seen an AD2700 go was somewhere around 150, standard kit (psu+iron+stand). I've also seen the 4300 go for 175$, PSU only.
Also, if you really do want an Ersa, I see at least 7 i-Con's on ebay Canada (means restricted to auctioneers who say they'll ship to Canada, typically). I see a 200$ USD BIN which includes the PSU, iron and iron stand, I kind of expect similar in Europe.
used soldering irons are a great way to save bucks if you're already inclined to purchase a new one as tips tend to be the large determination in performance. though I'm not sure about the durability of the fancier digital interface PSUs.
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If you go for the i-Con with the i-Tool I recommend to get some additional tip fasteners for your convenience. They are about EUR 5 each and available in two colors (black 3IT1040-00 and green 3IT1045-00). The green ones are meant for tips used only for lead-free solder. I bought mine from Reichelt. They don't offer them in their online shop but will get them from ERSA for you (also special tips). There's a dedicated ERSA online shop (www.ersa-shop.de (http://www.ersa-shop.de), fair prices) but I don't got any experience with that one.
I bought my I-Con Nano from http://www.ersa-shop.com (http://www.ersa-shop.com) (Not the same as .de) and I can really recommend that shop.
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used soldering irons are a great way to save bucks if you're already inclined to purchase a new one as tips tend to be the large determination in performance. though I'm not sure about the durability of the fancier digital interface PSUs.
All the fun is in getting a new iron fresh out the box. :-+ You'd normally keep a soldering station for tens of years probably so not the worst way to blow your cash.
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used soldering irons are a great way to save bucks if you're already inclined to purchase a new one as tips tend to be the large determination in performance. though I'm not sure about the durability of the fancier digital interface PSUs.
All the fun is in getting a new iron fresh out the box. :-+ You'd normally keep a soldering station for tens of years probably so not the worst way to blow your cash.
personally, I'd rather save the money and get more stuff or upgrade some of the antiques I've been using :P
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Hi,
normally I'd say yes.
But I will rather not buy a used soldering-station. I've seen quite a few which had to take a lot of mechanical abuse (near junk experience :) ).
And the ones which did not, well, a few minutes ago a Metcal MX-PS5000 was sold for 350€, without any warranty of course.
The i-Con 1 is not that often at ebay, usually ends at ~200€+shipping if in reasonable condition. More often you can get the i-Con 2 with two Handpieces like the i-Tool and tweezers (which I don't need). For them I'd have to pay as much as for a new i-Con 1.
If I have to pay nearly 2/3 of the price of a new unit, I stick to the new one. No risk, no cleaning and a nice new original packed product. :)
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I've used various expensive soldering stations at work: Weller, Antex JBC etc. and I find them pretty much the same performance wise. I also have a Hakko FX-888D and I don't find it inferior to the more premium soldering stations. To an extent you're just paying for the brand name. In my opinion, the only reason to pay more is one needs it to be calibrated,.
Just don't buy a dirt cheap station, like the one sold by Maplin, which is just a phase controller connected to a cheap mains soldering iron.
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Hi,
normally I'd say yes.
But I will rather not buy a used soldering-station. I've seen quite a few which had to take a lot of mechanical abuse (near junk experience :) ).
And the ones which did not, well, a few minutes ago a Metcal MX-PS5000 was sold for 350€, without any warranty of course.
The i-Con 1 is not that often at ebay, usually ends at ~200€+shipping if in reasonable condition. More often you can get the i-Con 2 with two Handpieces like the i-Tool and tweezers (which I don't need). For them I'd have to pay as much as for a new i-Con 1.
If I have to pay nearly 2/3 of the price of a new unit, I stick to the new one. No risk, no cleaning and a nice new original packed product. :)
when I mean used, I mean the "ancient" analog dial models that I listed in my 2nd post on page 1. metcal STSS's are pretty simple (manual for the "newer" auto-tip off variant says 1992) , and unless they've been seriously abused, will work fine for many more decades to come.
I'd expect the JBC AD2700 to be relatively simple as well, though I don't know about it's durability.
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I've used various expensive soldering stations at work: Weller, Antex JBC etc. and I find them pretty much the same performance wise. I also have a Hakko FX-888D and I don't find it inferior to the more premium soldering stations. To an extent you're just paying for the brand name. In my opinion, the only reason to pay more is one needs it to be calibrated,.
Just don't buy a dirt cheap station, like the one sold by Maplin, which is just a phase controller connected to a cheap mains soldering iron.
Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.
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metcal STSS's are pretty simple (manual for the "newer" auto-tip off variant says 1992) , and unless they've been seriously abused, will work fine for many more decades to come.
Ah, but there is a caveat. They use parts in the driver stage that are no longer available. So, if the driver FET blows (some VN.... type), you have to do a bit more than just a drop-in replacement. And even the final's are not that easy to come by these days.
While i agree that Metcals usually last a long time (and i have an STSS myself, plus one of my DIY versions), this is something that a potential buyer should be aware of. But in any case, as far as the Metcal 13.56 MHz system is concerned, i think that only a good JBC is comparable in performance. The latter pumping way much more power into the tip to achieve the same result, but anyways, same result nonetheless...
Once you worked with a statin that has such a thermal recovery, you simply don't want to go back, unless forced to.
Oh, and there is the nasty thing about the "older" Metcal stations (STSS, MX500, ...): It will never really switch off the supply. The transformer is always on, the actual switch only switching the secondary, after DC conversion and some regulation.... Be aware of that. But then, you can build your own as well, i have a thread here about that: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-metcal-13-56-mhz-rf-supply/] [url]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-metcal-13-56-mhz-rf-supply/ (http://[url)[/url]
Greetings,
Chris
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Hi,
I looked for a STSS on ebay, and it seemes to be even harder to get. And price-wise not very attractive.
A DIY-Station would be a nice solution and alternative. But right now, unfortunately, I don't have the Time and quite a few projects like a USB-Powered "Lab"-PSU waiting. Maybe later as a just-for-fun project.... And as a replacement for my Weller WS81.
@Hero999:
Thanks for your reply, but I have the impression you misunderstood the intention of this thread a little bit. :)
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Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.
I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.
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Hi,
I looked for a STSS on ebay, and it seemes to be even harder to get. And price-wise not very attractive.
A DIY-Station would be a nice solution and alternative. But right now, unfortunately, I don't have the Time and quite a few projects like a USB-Powered "Lab"-PSU waiting. Maybe later as a just-for-fun project.... And as a replacement for my Weller WS81.
@Hero999:
Thanks for your reply, but I have the impression you misunderstood the intention of this thread a little bit. :)
Depends on region, I would imagine. I just ordered an STSS supply off ebay in the US, and there were a bunch to choose from, all pretty cheap.
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Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.
I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.
Metcal stations use RF induction heating, with temperature regulated by the curie point of the tip. There is no temperature sense. Temperature is selected by using different tips.
The instant the tip starts to cool down from the curie point it begins absorbing more RF energy to heat, and it cannot overshoot. The direct heating of the tip results in very fast heatup and recovery times.
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Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.
I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.
Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.
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Depends on region, I would imagine. I just ordered an STSS supply off ebay in the US, and there were a bunch to choose from, all pretty cheap.
No chance :(
I'd estimate about $100 shipping plus customs here in Germany. Every measurement gear I got from overseas so far, I had to pick up from the local office of the customs authorities. And that in total would more or less ruin a cheap unit from the states.
Well, I'll buy the ERSA-Station and compare it with the JBC at work. ERSA does marketing with "Performance like a cartridge, but with interchangable Tips", one User here had the chance to test both and prefers the ERSA before a JBC. That makes me curious. Let's see... :)
And at least between all this "High-End"-soldering-stations, theres not that much difference in performance. The level is quite high and after that it's more a personal thing. Maybe I'm wrong and if I build myself a Metcal-Supply, I'll only use this one, but I don't believe it's such a big jump like if you compare it with a Hakko 936 (as I learned here: today FX-888). But that Hakko is a rather cheap Hobby-tool. :)
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Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.
I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.
I think you've been reading the wrong information. :-//
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Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.
Used JBC before and I don't find it any better than Hakko - you're paying for the name.
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Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.
Used JBC before and I don't find it any better than Hakko - you're paying for the name.
Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.
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Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.
It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.
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Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.
It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.
like != like when you're talking about different technologies. I'd expect my metcal stss 40W (max, dependent on tip) to be pretty close to a JBC 55W, the metcals use a pretty significant thermal mass for their tips while JBC is all about minimal thermal mass and high power. the stss 40W stomps on a Hakko FX-888 and yet has >25W less output power.
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Solder power and technology are implementation details.
What matter is how well it does the job and how much it costs.
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Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.
I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.
Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.
Metcal has adjustable temperature, it just is a little less conventional - it requires different carts for different temps.
That said, I think it is no issue, usually you use low temp on small things, med temp on med things and high time on big things, so buy one small 500/600f cart, one med 700f cart and one big 800f cart.
Carts are cheap anyway, i don't get the big deal?
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That is no how Metcals are designed to work. You don't need a higher temp cartridge for bigger things: you need a bigger cartridge.
Different temperature cartridges are targeted to different PCB sustrate bases or component temperature tolerances.
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Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.
It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.
like != like when you're talking about different technologies. I'd expect my metcal stss 40W (max, dependent on tip) to be pretty close to a JBC 55W, the metcals use a pretty significant thermal mass for their tips while JBC is all about minimal thermal mass and high power. the stss 40W stomps on a Hakko FX-888 and yet has >25W less output power.
55w?, i don't even know how many watts my JBC is, I have the 2BB and the DIT, but my hakko I think is 65watt, but it doesnt help since my JBC is much faster and responsive than that one..
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That is no how Metcals are designed to work. You don't need a higher temp cartridge for bigger things: you need a bigger cartridge.
Different temperature cartridges are targeted to different PCB substrate bases or component temperature tolerances.
Yes and no.
If you have a larger thermal gradient, the heat transfers quicker, so whilst larger tips can transfer more heat because they have more thermal inertia, contact area, and they are generally the hottest temps in their series.
While the bigger tips do help significantly, higher temps will heat the joint enough before the heat disperses into the board, so you can remove large components quickly without heating the board even minorly.
Additionally, the bigger cartridge can produce the same amount of heat energy as the smaller one, it just happens that the bigger one can transfer heat into the join much more effectively.
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Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.
It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.
like != like when you're talking about different technologies. I'd expect my metcal stss 40W (max, dependent on tip) to be pretty close to a JBC 55W, the metcals use a pretty significant thermal mass for their tips while JBC is all about minimal thermal mass and high power. the stss 40W stomps on a Hakko FX-888 and yet has >25W less output power.
55w?, i don't even know how many watts my JBC is, I have the 2BB and the DIT, but my hakko I think is 65watt, but it doesnt help since my JBC is much faster and responsive than that one..
The CD-B station can do up to 130W peak. Which is a major factor why JBCs are so fast and responsive.
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Hi,
out of curiosity I looked at my watch how long my JBC at work took to come up from Hibernate (it was set to 340°C), it's about 6 seconds.
Thats nearly the same Time a ERSA i-Con 1 needs to heat up to 340, as seen in a Youtube-Video. OK it was set to a higher Temp (360) and therefore "overruns" the 340. But I think it's quite impressive for a "classical" Tip+Heater-Station. :D
I don't give that much about numbers, but just wanted to share it with you.
Meaning: It is one criterion of mine in this special case. But for the real work, well, I don't give a much about.
Especially if it's so close by. Everything between 20sec and zero is promising a good heat transmission.
Solder power and technology are implementation details.
What matter is how well it does the job and how much it costs.
Of course. But it's interesting and a nice discussion, don't you think? :)
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Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.
I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.
Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.
Just wanted to add in that I agree here.
At a previous job they had a JBC station and a number of Metcal stations. The Metcals were MX-500 bases with a couple different handles - MX-RM3E, MX-H2-UF, and MX-PTZ. The JBC base station was an HD (I think) and with three handles - PA120-A, T210-A, and T245-A.
I strongly prefer the JBC over the Metcal, having spent many, many hours with both. The cord on the Metcal is heavy and gets in the way, while the JBC cords are lightweight and much less bothersome. The JBC tweezers are just far, far superior to the Metcals for tight work. Both irons regulate temperature nicely, and both have a nice range of tips available. But to me the JBC wins based on smaller, lighter handles with lighter cords and adjustable temperature (a feature that is only occasionally needed - but when you need it you need it).
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The cord on the Metcal is heavy and gets in the way, while the JBC cords are lightweight and much less bothersome.
This is no longer an issue on Metcal handpieces such as the Metcal MX-H1-AV Advanced Hand-piece. It is lighter than it's predecessor yet is made from aluminium instead of plastic! The cord on the handpeice is about the same as the JBC, but it is much longer, allowing you to use the "over the shoulder" trick to make the cord seem even lighter (i learned this from welding).
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Hi!
Just ordered the ERSA i-Con 1. :)
I will write something about it as soon as it arrives.
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I have a JBC small solder station and a Weller WR3M - and I prefer the JBC - so much so that I'll put my Weller up for sale soon and change it with a JBC RMST. It is a lot more expensive than the WR3M - but I hope it is worth it. Maybe JBC could give us some "competitive upgrade discounts" if they are still looking here.
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Hi!
Here we are... I got my ERSA today. And I want to share my first impressions with you.
Build-Quality is good but I like the "all rounded" feeling of the JBCs more. For example the i-Con has a metal front, but the edges are somewhat sharp. Not really but touching them gives a rough feeling. The stand for the iron is complete rubber, never saw something like this before. But its temperature resistant, a "good poke" for a few seconds with a 360°C-Tip didn't leave any melted spots. If it's dirty I just send my girlfriend shopping and put it in the dishwasher ;D
The iron is cool. Ultra-light (30g) and has a very short tip-to-finger range. I like it much more than the JBC.
What I don't like is the cable. It could be a bit more flexible. It is flexible but not as good as the JBC or my Weller. Here's room for improvement. The connector is -of course- a shitty DIN one, but at least a better one.
First power up: Man, it's quick. A test with about 1,5cm of solder around the tip showed, it is even faster than a JBC (JBC ~9 sek, ERSA ~8). I know, these numbers are bullshit and not saying anything. It was just out of curiosity if ERSA lives up to its marketing-bla. This is including "boot-time". To wake up from hibernate the ERSA needs around 8 seconds, the JBC 6. But as I said, it does not mean much.
What I really like, the temperature-display is very responsive and I think quite honest. When I was using the Hakko FM206 I was always a little confused, the temperature ramped up to 340°C and stayed there and did not move even one degree. With the ERSA it jumpes around and deviates depending on what I do.
Standby works as I wanted.
A nice feature is the knob. I can turn it and control the Temperature just like on an analog station, no menu-bullshit for this. I'd prefer 5°C-Steps, but thats not that important. If I press the knob for a second I come into the menu and can adjust the other parameters.
So in short:
Handpiece is :-+
Heat-up and response :-+ :-+
Standby :-+
Cable a little stiffer than JBC :--
My unit hums a little bit :--
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Glad you like you're new toy. Have fun with it. ;D
Oh, and please post anything of note, as it seems Ersa is a good one for EU members to consider if they have the budget. ;)
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Ok, first solder-results.
I soldered and desoldered some RF-Cans and shielding. Hard stuff.
The amount of power this thing can dump into a joint is quite impressive. My direct (unfair) comparison, the Weller WS81 loses in every aspect.
There is a significant gap between them in respect to real demanding soldering. I soldered 10x20x.5mm-Pieces of copper onto a copper-plated FR4-PCB.
With the big tip (3mm chisel) it's as easy as soldering some components. :) Ok, thats not really true... But it goes quite smoothly and easy. Much better than the Weller.
When doing "just" electronics, I doubt to get a difference.
I could not tell any difference between a JBC or the ERSA. But from the iron, I prefer the i-Tool ;D
as it seems Ersa is a good one for EU members to consider if they have the budget.
Definitely. It's an invest. But it's worth it. If you have the application of course, when soldering one or two LEDs in a arduino-shield, it's a little overpowered ;)
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Interesting you mention the cable being stiff - on mine (which is an older unit), the cable is really flexible (possibly more than the universities JBCs).
I've got a range of tips for mine. My most commonly used is a 1.6mm chisel - that'll do 0805 resistors as happily as 4mm bullet connectors onto 12AWG cable.
The most impressive tip I bought is a 10mm chisel tip (pictured) - it was pretty cheap (around £16), and seems to have an infinite amount of heat. Heatsinks, PC motherboards, etc - it's great at desoldering. It's handy for multi connector headers too - as it can easily heat several pins at once.
My smallest tip (also pictured) is a 0.4mm conical point - while ok for small SMD work, I generally find it's just a bit small, and doesn't hold much solder. Nice and precise though...
My complaints about the station would be that it buzzes (although only when applying power to the iron), and that the rotary encoder is only mounted to the PCB, not the chassis. That means that as you press the encoder, you see the LCD move slightly (which feels a little cheap).
Andy
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My direct (unfair) comparison, the Weller WS81 loses in every aspect.
There is a significant gap between them in respect to real demanding soldering. I soldered 10x20x.5mm-Pieces of copper onto a copper-plated FR4-PCB.
With the big tip (3mm chisel) it's as easy as soldering some components. :) Ok, thats not really true... But it goes quite smoothly and easy. Much better than the Weller.
When doing "just" electronics, I doubt to get a difference.
What tip did you use on the Weller by chance (I also have a WSP80 that uses LT series tips)?
Might have to find/make some copper coupons to try out the WSP80 with my WD1, and see how it fares by comparison. I'm extremely curious by nature, so it would be an interesting comparison between the power units from my POV, if you're willing, and I can find some copper foil/sheet of an agreed upon thickness.
Definitely. It's an invest. But it's worth it. If you have the application of course, when soldering one or two LEDs in a arduino-shield, it's a little overpowered ;)
That's blasphemy I tell you, BLASPHEMY! ;D :P
Or as Tim "The_Tool_Man" Taylor would say, "More Power! Uhun hun hun <grunt noises>". 8)
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The most impressive tip I bought is a 10mm chisel tip (pictured)
- it was pretty cheap (around £16), and seems to have an infinite amount of heat.
So if you have to repair the rain gutter, you are well equipped ;D
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Hi,
the cable is not stiff. It feels just a little bit stiffer in comparison.
It is flexible and I had no problems using it. But this is the "high-end"-section and I will rant about every tiny flaw. ;)
One thing I'm not that happy about is the way the Tips are interchanged. First I would wish the station would detect it and turn off the heater, instead of me heaving to turn of the station. Just like JBC does, if you put your iron into this "cardridge-storage", it's immediately going into Hibernate. The second is the nut. It's not I don't like it. It's ok. But I will have to by a few more of these nuts:
http://www.ersa-shop.com/l%C3%B6tspitzenbefestigung-komplett-f%C3%BCr-itool-p-620.html (http://www.ersa-shop.com/l%C3%B6tspitzenbefestigung-komplett-f%C3%BCr-itool-p-620.html)
With this i can screw one Tip off and one Tip on. If you forget to buy them (like me, someone suggested it here) you only have the one that comes with your station and now I have to wait until the Tip cools down and put the new one in the nut.
What tip did you use on the Weller by chance (I also have a WSP80 that uses LT series tips)?
Also a 3mm (or 2.8mm) chisel. I'm not exactly sure, this tip was included when I bought my WMD3.
But holding the irons tip to tip, I could not see a big difference.
Of course the comparison is unfair. The WS81 is by far the older Unit, and ATM is 100€ cheaper.
I believe a new WX would be on par with the ERSA, but is to expensive (550€) for the same technology. And I refuse to believe the Weller is worth the additional 200€.
Today I'm going to solder some "power-electronics", several 50W-Resistors on a copper-plated FR4, dummy load for a defective PSU.
This will be a good Test. :) Normally I would just screw them onto the plate, but not today ;D
PS:
Or as Tim "The_Tool_Man" Taylor would say, "More Power! Uhun hun hun <grunt noises>". 8)
Only if i add an -at least- 5HP Motor into it ;D
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Hi again,
I just ordered some nuts/fasteners, a special ERSA-tweezer for handling hot tips and the 10mm-raingutter-tip (what a beast!).
Now my gear-acquirement-syndrome has cost me enough ;D
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a special ERSA-tweezer for handling hot tips
The ERSA-Pliers are excellent.
With them you can easily change the hot tips on the fly.
Here are my ERSA-Pliers together with my smallest (0,2mm) Micro-Tool Tip
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b611/ZX_81/Werkzeug/Tweezers_zps8ea6a2da.jpg)
The super small 0,2mm Micro-Tool Tip
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b611/ZX_81/Werkzeug/MicroTool_Tip_zpsdaef3cf0.jpg)
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Now my gear-acquirement-syndrome has cost me enough ;D
ah, i was looking for a name for it, GAD, Gear Acquisition Disorder, after : http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Razor_Acquisition_Disorder (http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Razor_Acquisition_Disorder)
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The ERSA-Pliers are excellent.
With them you can easily change the hot tips on the fly.
I'd agree with that. My (second hand) station came with tip changing tweezers rather than pliers - but they're still very handy for swapping tips on the fly. Not quite as neat as JBC's system (as you have to turn the station off (or at least I do)) - but still, I don't have to change tips nearly as often as I did with my old Aoyue (Hakko clone).
Andy
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That's the type of tweezers I ordered. They are specially made for the i-Tool.
I could order the pliers, but they where quite expensive (6€ <-> 21€), so I decided the tweezers are enough.
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That's the type of tweezers I ordered. They are specially made for the i-Tool.
I could order the pliers, but they where quite expensive (6€ <-> 21€), so I decided the tweezers are enough.
Didn't came the i-Tool with simple tweezers for tips?
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No, and the manual says also nothing about the tweezers.
Used the station quite a lot yesterday and I'm happy with the results.
I could not (or was not patient enough) solder the cases of the power-resistors down onto the copper-plate.
It looks like brass, but I'm not really sure if you can solder them... never tried before. Has anyone?
If I get the big tip, I'll give it a shot.
Anyway, working with the ERSA feels pretty much like working with the JBC. I adjusted the standby to 30 seconds, works fine.
It is a bit slower, so waking up from 180°C standby-temp takes longer than the way from the stand to the joint. Now I grab the iron first and then the solder, with this I get no interruption in my workflow. But that is only important if the tip has the time to cool down to 180°C.
To come back from Hibernate takes also a little longer in comparison to JBC, but I have to wait in both cases, so I don't care about 6 or 8 seconds.
edit:
I just realized, I was working with "medium" Energy-Setting the whole time. Now I changed to "high", let's see... ;D
edit2:
Now it's fast enough. Not exactly on temp, but high enough to solder (>300°C). JBC is a bit faster. But the difference is not high enough for me to really matter. As far as soldering goes I can't tell them apart. They are -in my personal ranking- the best units, above Weller (WS, TCP), PACE (forgot which one, was a cardridge-type) and both type of Hakkos.
For me still the shape of the ultra-light handpiece wins the game. For my hand, it's just perfect from an ergonomic point of view.
And I like the stand. It's "only" rubber, but therefore easy to clean (and cheap to replace). And the "poles" for spare-tips are pretty neat.
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I got the 10mm-Tip today.
If you want to solder copper-plates as easy as 0603-SMD, that's your tool ;D
When for example soldering an N-Connector onto a copper-coated FR4-bord, it will be of good use.
With the tweezers and a Nut on every tip, it's very easy to change them. Not as "cool" and fast like the JBC but 1) I don't need to change that often and 2) with this 10mm-Tip the "storage" of the JBC would be occupied.
So, finally, my conclusion:
In technical terms the JBC is a bit ahead of the i-Con, it has a faster heat-up (also from Standby), but remember we are talking about one or two seconds. You can change the tips faster and with the unit powered on. The case feels nicer and more stylish.
As for me these things don't really matter. The faster interchange of tips/cardridges may matter in industrial environment. But if I'd have to change so often (so the few sec. matters) I'd buy a second station.
As far as soldering is concerned I can't possibly tell the difference. They are both top-class soldering stations.
JBC has a lot more Tips. The ones I would need are available for both. JBC has quite a lot ultra-ultra-specific stuff. If you need that, JBC is the one. That's also a thing that's more important in a high-volume industrial environment. As for the prices, the "usual" stuff like 1,5mm-chisel is about three times more expensive with JBC.
As mentioned the handpiece of the ERSA is (for me) better than the JBC's. And that is important.
Also JBC is really hard to get here in Germany, even though it's a European company. :-//
I don't regret my choice and would again prefer ERSA im comparison to JBC and the (lot more expensive) Wellers.
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I have a JBC DIT2B system with the c245 handpiece and a Weller WD1000 with the wsp80, the rapid heat up of the jbc is great but the cable a little stiff, the weller cable much more pliant, the heating capacity in practice is not reflected by the watts, jbc 30W I think, weller 80W. The jbc overall a better unit, value for money is falling though.
Why did jbc put the power switch on the back of the unit DIT2b?
I think when you are up past the AUS $300 - 400 mark you get good gear, it gets picky as to subtle differences.
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Also JBC is really hard to get here in Germany, even though it's a European company. :-//
Not entirely true, I'm from The Netherlands, next to Germany, and I have recently bought a brand new JBC-station from a big German Reseller: Weidinger (http://www.weidinger.eu/).
The JBC station is an analog BT-2BWA Kit (Weidinger Edition) (http://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loet-_und_entloettechnik/jbc/jbc_loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_loetstationen/wl26830) with 2 useful Tips included for 250 Euro's incl. German VAT & transit.
(the picture on the website is from an older revision, you get a slightly updated version)
This analog station is replacing an Weller WS81T which I soon gonna sell. I also have a JBC CD-2BC, of which the Thermal performance and usability convinced me of throwing the Weller out.
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They seem to have changed their mind. When I wanted to order parts for my FM-206, there was a big disclaimer: Only commercial costumers.
With the new homepage it vanished. Good. :)
The "Weiginger-Edition" CD-2BC Kit is the one I've had ordered at work.
And of course a WS81 has "no chance" against such a station. But "no chance" is quite close on the other hand. You can feel a difference but the gap is not that big. As far as only soldering is concerned the ~100€ extra for the iCon (or a CD-2BC) does not pay off.
If we go into special stuff like "hard plumbing work" ;) the difference gets bigger.
With your analog one, of course, that's a different story. It's even cheaper. :-+
I think when you are up past the AUS $300 - 400 mark you get good gear, it gets picky as to subtle differences.
Exactly. I think it's mostly about "personal preferences". In this price-region you get high quality professional gear from all brands. I don't think you can make a bad choice here.
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Why did jbc put the power switch on the back of the unit DIT2b?
This irritates me no end! I know it's a picky thing at the "high end", but it is a major irritant on any piece of "test gear".
I have a Solartron bench multimeter which I can't actually use on the bench because I can't switch the bastard on or even off because the power switch is at the back!
The JBC "two-tool" stations have the switch on the front, it's only the one tool stations that have it at the rear. Grrrrr. However, despite it's one single failing, I love my DIT2B to bits :-+
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I'm happy with my two Wellers, the older one being more than 10 years old.
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I have also got a couple of older Weller irons. Good irons really. One is in the kitchen and the other one is set up in the living room. I think they are TCP-S "clicker" or magstat irons.
Other than that, I have a JBC AD2700 / C210 in the bedroom and the JBC DI / C245 is in the workshops.
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Come on Kibi, no iron set up in the bathroom? You must be single. LOL
BillWojo
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Hi,
after I used my ERSA quite some time now, I'm still 100% satisfied.
I already used this thing to fix my mother's (metal) 10L-watering can. Worked fine... From the "power-side" of view no problems at all. :-+
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We use exclusively Hakko without any major problems. Have used hot air stations, digital bench stations, vacuum pump/desolder pump, tweezers, etc. Would really like to try Weller some day however or another non-China based brand.
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The "Weiginger-Edition" CD-2BC Kit
What is the difference between normal cd-2bd and "Weiginger-Edition"? I asked sales, but they hadn't answered yet.
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The "Weiginger-Edition" CD-2BC Kit
What is the difference between normal cd-2bd and "Weiginger-Edition"? I asked sales, but they hadn't answered yet.
Same as the difference between CD-2BD and CD-2BC, the CD-2BD and this http://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loettechnik/jbc/jbc_loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_compact_line/wl30307 (http://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loettechnik/jbc/jbc_loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_compact_line/wl30307) is only a label (if any).