Wireless Wall Switch from China. Safe?

[Prof. Sparkles]

I want to add a few wireless light switches to my flat and automate the lights with an arduino and a 433mhz transmitter.
The typical Z-wave based solution are pretty damn expensive here in germany (around 60€ for a single one way switch).

Now there are a few reasonably priced switches on Aliexpress, they sound perfect, no weird radio just plain 433mhz and available for 20-25€.
My only concern is, are these things safe? The reviews are good but they could also be fake. I couldn't find any reviews outside of aliexpress.

I'm looking into either this switch type from "Kopu".
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-EU-Standard-Remote-Switch-White-Crystal-Glass-Panel-Remote-should-buy-separately-2-Gang/833020_1476985820.html

Or this type from "MakeGood" (around 23€ 1pcs qty on ali express).
http://makegood.en.alibaba.com/product/1861427935-221874888/New_Plain_White_2_Gang_1_Way_Remote_Control_Switch_AC_110_240V_Touch_Screen_Glass_Panel_Wall_Light_Switch_European_Standard.html

They are quite similar but the PCB images are different, looks like different designs. If the images are actually real.
Any thoughts?
I'd love to get these but I dont want to burn my flat down because I want to save 100 bucks.

Also how they not need a neutral wire? Seems kinda odd.

[dannyf]

Any thoughts?

Don't know either of them. However connected homes is an area of humongous investments in China right now, with lots of interesting devices coming out. So I think the future looks good.

I'd love to get these but I dont want to burn my flat down because I want to save 100 bucks.

I think you pretty much answered your own question,

[Prof. Sparkles]

Well, sometimes chinese products can be really good and you just pay a shitload of money for a product thats not in any way safer.
The pcbs look not all too bad on both of them but I'm just not experienced with anything AC/Mains Voltage.
And the price is reasonable, not in the "this just can't be that cheap" range. I can actually get 433mhz light switches for the same price from amazon but they are just really dumb compared to these chinese ones. I really like how they are designed to work, a touch interface is way smarter than the old physical switch style button. This way the "physical" button is always in sync with the last remote command. Awesome!

Don't know either of them. However connected homes is an area of humongous investments in China right now, with lots of interesting devices coming out. So I think the future looks good.

So that means there are good chinese products in that area?

[Vgkid]

Post up some pictures if you get some.

[dannyf]

So that means there are good chinese products in that area?

What's good is highly subjective and it is definitely hard / impossible for me to tell you if anything is good for you.

What I can tell if that if it is my primary residence, I wouldn't put those switches in my house - there is too much at stake if one of them were to go wrong. It is better to let others be the guinea pig.

Having said that, take a look at some of the kickstarter sites in China (z.jd.com is a new entrant for example) and you will be amazed by the kind of gadgets they are turning out now. Browse at your own risk, however.

[Jeroen3]

$60 will be cheaper than a burned down house.
You'll also be able to add more devices or central controller in the future, goodluck finding those chinese stuff a year from now.

[vk6zgo]

Your local Licencing Authority will probably be unamused,as will your Insurance company.

[Yago]

Don't take that chance with your life and property.

Send one to Dave or Mike and ask if they do a teardown of it??

[janoc]

Honestly, if you have to ask about safety then it is likely not safe.

As others said, this is being penny smart, pound foolish. If the device fails, burns your house down and your insurance discovers that you have used a non-certified product, good luck ... For that reason alone I would go with a properly certified brand-name thing - if nothing else, I am covered should something fail.

When it comes to mains voltages, I don't dare to touch anything coming from Alibaba or Aliexpress. More often than not it is built to price and even when not outright dangerous, it likely doesn't conform to the local electricity and building codes.

[Prof. Sparkles]

Well other than the fact that they come from china I have no reason to suspect that they are unsafe. Its just a general prejudice assumption of mine that it might be not safe when its engineered in china.
I found the same switches for a slightly higher price on german amazon (even shipped directly from Amazon) with pretty good reviews:
http://www.amazon.de/Touch-Schalter-Kristallglas-verschiedenen-2-Gang-2-Wege-Wei%C3%9F/dp/B00K4VBMVG/

I might just order that and post some pictures of the PCB here.

[cravenhaven]

As for your second question: "Why is there no neutral".
I believe the answer is that the device makes use of the difference in voltage between the input and output to provide its own power source, therefore no neutral is required.
Of course this also means that there is always some level of voltage at the light socket, so beware.

[Prof. Sparkles]

Oh wow, thats acutally kind of a smart thing, with that thick glass front nothing much that could happen I guess.

Though I now found some even cheaper 433mhz switches on pollin.de, which I would regard safe as pollin is an established electronics shop in germany and its their internal brand, so the CE sign in their manual is probably legit.
They do the same thing with a standard old push button. Enough for me. And a single dimmable switch only costs 7€(!).

So far I only found overpriced home automation switches based on z-wave and what not for 50-60$ a piece, so I thought the chinese ones were extremly cheap.
In the end this is just a 433mhz receiver an mcu and a relay integrated into a standard push-button wall switch. The material costs can't be that high..

[amyk]

What's with this obsession with "touch" switches? They're not easy to find in the dark and have no tactile feedback.

Anyway the ones posted look like they just use a pair of triacs to do the switching.

[a210210200]

Lutron is probably too expensive for your budget but I've used their IR switches for my home theater so that my old Harmony remote can control them as well. They also have RF switches which you can even network with your computer but everything is quite pricy (overpriced). All of the stuff is north American style but I'm sure they have euro style switches at an equal or even high price.

Those Pollin switches they look suspiciously like an direct china switch as there are no markings on those images other than the wiring diagram normally their would be some labels or embossed marks to show that the product meets standards (at least that is how it appears in Canada)

[Bud]

Just tasted some Chinese power electronics yesterday. Used a switching power supply rated at 1A to power a 0.8A circuit, the power supplied crackled and released magic smoke in 15 minutes.
And no, I did not desolder the transistor in the photo, it desoldered itself.

[Vito_R]

$60 will be cheaper than a burned down house.

I AGREE   

[Vito_R]

Just tasted some Chinese power electronics yesterday. Used a switching power supply rated at 1A to power a 0.8A circuit, the power supplied crackled and released magic smoke in 15 minutes.
And no, I did not desolder the transistor in the photo, it desoldered itself.

I found those chinese electronics great when you're all out of matches and really need to get that fire going.  Works better then flint rod. 

[TheBay]

I have Lutron Rania IR in some rooms (Amazingly well made, work of art)

And also Home Easy 433mhz (Byron?) http://www.homeeasy.eu/
In other rooms, the Home easy stuff is dirt cheap on eBay UK and works very well.

I have units behind plasterboard to control wall lights, units inside lamps, light switches etc. It's also compatible with some home automation software/hardware such as RFXCOM.

[ResR]

Just tasted some Chinese power electronics yesterday. Used a switching power supply rated at 1A to power a 0.8A circuit, the power supplied crackled and released magic smoke in 15 minutes.
And no, I did not desolder the transistor in the photo, it desoldered itself.

Is that transistor 13003 like used in CFL's? It looks like it is, it's interesting that it burned out so fast. I have a polish made Agena ZS 12V/100 12V 100mA linear supply from the 1990's (used for analog TV antenna amplifier) and it gets only warm with the load of 5 groups of triple LED's from 12V strip light remains (I may even overload that thing currently).

[Vito_R]

Just tasted some Chinese power electronics yesterday. Used a switching power supply rated at 1A to power a 0.8A circuit, the power supplied crackled and released magic smoke in 15 minutes.
And no, I did not desolder the transistor in the photo, it desoldered itself.

.. it's interesting that it burned out so fast. I have a polish made Agena ZS 12V/100 12V 100mA linear supply from the 1990's (used for analog TV antenna amplifier) and it gets only warm with the load of 5 groups of triple LED's from 12V strip light remains (I may even overload that thing currently).

Not too interesting, simply poor design by some shady company in china that cares only about profits then any safety considerations.  He don't care if he burns down your house or not as long as he sells a million of them then closes his shop and moves to another remote part of the country and then starts again.