Author Topic: Antenna In Hoa communities  (Read 4473 times)

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Offline daniel123Topic starter

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Antenna In Hoa communities
« on: April 24, 2016, 10:30:13 pm »
I live in a deed restricted community. Dosent the fcc have rule that says that hams can erect an antenna in these communities. Also I would want a pretty big one so yea. I would just like some clarifaction on that rule

Sincerly Daniel
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2016, 10:37:32 pm »
No, there is no such rule.  The FAA does not supersede the contract you signed.  That is, unless you can show the contact violates generally accepted rules of conduct and/or law.

John
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2016, 10:50:12 pm »
Make sure and support H.R. 1301.

http://www.arrl.org/amateur-radio-parity-act

I've met many many HOA board members, how to say, Mmmmmm, better not.   :--

Offline daniel123Topic starter

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2016, 10:54:45 pm »
Ok i will read it thanks
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 02:16:57 pm »
In the US, FCC PRB-1 covers restrictive local and state ordinances.  It briefly mentions deed restrictions, with regret.  One thing the restrictions can't restrict is small sat TV dishes, those  do have some sort of legal coverage after multiple lawsuits, because they are commercial service.

http://www.arrl.org/restrictive-antenna-ordinances

I don't have a deed covenant, but I have the lawsuit happy neighbor from Hell, who calls the Sheriff at every opportunity.  To the point the Sheriff's office is so annoyed about all her 911 calls that they finally threatened to charge her..  I'm told by neighbors that she even  called Home land about my activities and the gear, toolkit,  and repair parts  in my car... 

I strongly suggest looking into low observable antennas such flagpoles, loops,  near vertical incidence skywave antennas, etc... There is a book out there some place on low observable /hidden antennas for Hams, and its worth a read...

My antennas are in the attic, and at HF there is near zero loss, and at two meters, its barely measureable with a tar paper and shingle roof. But I got  clobbered when we have heavy snows on 2 meters.  That lead the two meter antenna to be a discrete  stick on the back of the brick chimney that looks strangely like a lightning arrester.. Its not viewable from the street, but its there...     At two meters, I also played around with quarter and half wave sticks on phasing cables in the attic, for patterns...  Loops work within reason on HF..

Dielectric materials do not clobber you too bad, but you may need an antenna analyzer for tune up.

Since most people have cable TV these days, and broadcast TV is spread spectrum, there is a lower susceptibility to RFI at your neighbors, in some ways, but conversely because of laptops everywhere, you have a higher background to cope with when you have compromised antennas...

You can consider certain digital modes, because they have "process gain" at the receive end.

One good thing about Hamdom, there are some remotely operable rigs out there if you have decent internet. Set up by guys in your position. The FCC has pretty open rules about remote controlled rigs, too...

I've met a few guys who have their rigs at work, and live with the slight digitizing delay to run via internet control.  Although that really screws up CW.
Other guys get creative, the combo hummingbird feeder/loading coil is one of my favorites...

see:http://www.iw5edi.com/technical-articles/hidden-and-stealth-antennas

Google keywords:  Hidden, Stealth, Apartment,  Low Observable, NVIS, HAM Antenna

And your hobby is now highly classified..  No one in the new  hood gets to know your a Ham.. No one sees your handheld ever, until your outside the gate, and the ham radio car  license plate just went away.  The people who run for those boards are usually bullies, control freaks, and very nosey women with a Jezebel Spirit. (Look that one up in the Bible, it explains a lot!)

Steve




« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:48:55 pm by LaserSteve »
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Offline borjam

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 02:31:07 pm »
In Spain we have an advantage, certainly. Law grants a licensed radio amateur the right to erect a ham radio antenna. We are also required by law to help in case of emergency, but I guess most of us would help anyway.

I've always found the phenomenon of HOAs really curious. The US is hostile to the existence of a government almost by design. However, turns out that the freedom from government action becomes a weird freedom to create small toy governments which don't seem to be accountable for anything, and enjoy the freedom to legislate almost on underwear color:palm: :palm:

(Better I don't mention that, or several colors of underwear will be outlawed in US HOAs).

Really. Not intending to offend the affected ones, but it's a fascinating phenomenon.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:33:39 pm by borjam »
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2016, 03:13:00 pm »
@borjam

I think the distinction that many Americans see between government control and control by an HOA, church, club, and so forth is that affiliation with the latter is voluntary; whereas, you have little choice in whether to submit to the government.

I reviewed HR1301 and suspect it has little chance of passing, mainly because it would interfere with private contracts.  Now, it is not impossible for American regulatory agencies to interfere with private contracts ( e.g., minimum wages), but in such cases, there is an overriding consideration for the public welfare (real or imagined).  As you point out in Spain, consideration for public welfare by promoting the individual ham overrode the objections.  I do not think that will happen in the US.   HOA's and real estate developers have a lot of influence.

American realtors know that "HOA" is frequently more of a negative selling point than positive one.  They may try to hide it, but are required to disclose it.  For me, the existence of an HOA was a deal breaker, even though the realtor tried to downplay it and said that the developer was going to get rid of it.  My response was, when that happens, then I might be interested in the property.   I bought "fee simple," and I think many Americans have learned that lesson.

John
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2016, 03:15:17 pm »
Borjam,

 We have PRB-1, which can be used to intimidate local officials.  However we have so many towns and legal  jurisdictions that try to make up rules as they go.  Mostly with height restrictions on antennas.   I live out in the country for a reason.

It's not always so bad, it depends on the local attitude.  Often times officials are supportive. It would sometimes be nice if we had the nationalized, reasonably uniform law enforcement of say Spain or Canada... In other cases, you can select a area or city to live with far more freedoms..

In the case of a Home Owner's Association, that is a private agreement attached to the deed for the land.  It has little or nothing to do with the local, state, and federal governments.  It is entered into voluntarily, the OP probably  had the option of  buying a house elsewhere without such restrictions.

Steve
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 03:20:06 pm by LaserSteve »
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 03:27:50 pm »
HOAs have their good points, and they are unavoidable in some areas.  I have found the second best defense against the silliness that seems common among these things is to participate.  Most people don't want to take the time and so control devolves to people who have nothing better to do with their lives.  As others have said, the only really good defense is to move somewhere where there is no HOA.  Or rarely, you can get an HOA to dissolve.

Participation doesn't help much with antennas.  The one thing that almost all HOAs share is a dedication to maintaining property value.  Until members of forums like this are a majority in the population a tall or large antenna facility will not be viewed as positive or neutral on property value.  The best you can hope for is cooperation with limited visibility installations.
 

Offline borjam

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2016, 03:33:21 pm »
@borjam

I think the distinction that many Americans see between government control and control by an HOA, church, club, and so forth is that affiliation with the latter is voluntary; whereas, you have little choice in whether to submit to the government.
As far as I know (beware, I'm Spanish and I've never been to the USA) it´s not voluntary. In many places there is little offer, if any at all, of reasonably good environments not subject to HOAs. That completely eliminates the "voluntary" character.

I understand the value of agreement on some common standards in order to make coexistance much more peaceful. That's what civilization is about, after all. But, come on, I've read such terror stories on stupid HOA regulations... I wonder if some HOA bans single men from dating red headed women, allowing only brunettes, and blondes or black haired subject to a special permit.

 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2016, 03:39:22 pm »
Make it look like a giant solar panel. Nobody in right minds will protest against Green Energy.
 

Offline Fgrir

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2016, 03:59:49 pm »
In many places there is little offer, if any at all, of reasonably good environments not subject to HOAs.
Which tells you that HOAs do serve a purpose.  In a dense neighborhood where you can't help but see 10+ neighbors from your front porch it is nice to have everyone held to a common standard.  You want an antenna mast, another neighbor wants to raise pigs/chickens/etc., another wants to keep their old broken-down cars and appliances in the front yard...

I know HOAs can get out of hand but you do choose to enter the agreement when you buy the property.  I ride a motorcycle and I had to pass on the house my wife wanted most because they didn't allow motorcycles to be kept on the property.  I almost had to choose between the wife and the motorcycle and I'm still not sure which one I would have kept  :-//
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2016, 04:16:29 pm »
I did some more digging, evidently 25 States have enacted some variation of antenna laws that can supersede HOA rules. Most of them "pro" antenna for Hams. 

My favorite HOA rule was when visiting my uncle's apartment, as a child. Only adults could speak  while in the pool. While swimming, all children had to be silent. Same for on the elevators.   

Steve
"What the devil kind of Engineer are thou, that canst not slay a hedgehog with your naked arse?"
 

Offline Dataforensics

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2016, 05:00:54 pm »
Bit of a pain in emergencies, If they are drowning or stuck they should not call out!! or risk legal action.



My favorite HOA rule was when visiting my uncle's apartment, as a child. Only adults could speak  while in the pool. While swimming, all children had to be silent. Same for on the elevators.   

Steve
 

Online free_electron

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2016, 05:54:38 pm »
I did some more digging, evidently 25 States have enacted some variation of antenna laws that can supersede HOA rules. Most of them "pro" antenna for Hams. 

My favorite HOA rule was when visiting my uncle's apartment, as a child. Only adults could speak  while in the pool. While swimming, all children had to be silent. Same for on the elevators.   

Steve

Parents that have a bunch of noisy brats spoiling my weekend afternoon lounging at the pool should get a firm warning. Second offense: revoke pool rights.
i'm ok if they just talk in normal voice. But yelling, screaming , throwing tantrums ? Please get out of here. Time to re-educate the grown-ups.
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2016, 06:35:12 pm »
I think the distinction that many Americans see between government control and control by an HOA, church, club, and so forth is that affiliation with the latter is voluntary; whereas, you have little choice in whether to submit to the government.

Slavery can be voluntary too. Most HOA contracts seem unconscionable to me ... the name alone is false advertising. It's not an association of home owners, it's a semi-landlord with low rents but a ridiculously high initial fee.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 06:37:39 pm by Marco »
 

Offline ArdRhi

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 01:37:30 am »
I got my ham ticket while living in an apartment complex. They didn't have a specific rule against ham radio, just that if it caused interference you'd have to stop or fix it. I had two problems while I was living there -- my downstairs neighbor would actually bang on the ceiling with a hammer to express his displeasure when I'd transmit on 2 meters. I'd gotten a copper J-pole antenna that I put on a stand on the balcony. I craftily painted it with some spray "fleck" paint, a kind of paint that contained little flecks of material of different colors, so the coat it made looked like rock. The color I got was nearly an exact match for the brick of the wall it was near, and it literally could not be seen from further than 10 feet. But the neighbor claimed it was coming out of multiple devices, including his clock radio, so there was some bad harmonics or something going back into the building. I fixed that one with a custom-designed Moxon loop for 2 meters that I calculated and built. I mounted it on a nice wooden trellis wall that I put on the side of the balcony for privacy. It couldn't be seen, either, but the radiation pattern kept the majority of the radiation OUTSIDE the building, and the neighbor never heard it again and thus never complained again.

HF was an issue because I had no access to an attic, there were no useful gutters I could tune up, and in a 3rd floor apartment there were few options of where to mount an antenna where it won't be seen. My solution was to attach a fishing sinker to one end of a spool of 28-gauge magnet wire and fire it into the trees on the other side of the parking lot. It was at least 75-100 feet to where it would lodge in a handy tree. I tied it off to a plastic egg insulator, burned off the insulation on the end, and connected it to my coax. I strung a short and probably inadequate counterpoise around the balcony, then fed the whole thing into a random-wire tuner. I didn't run a lot of power with it, usually under 50 watts, and I had fun making some decent DX contacts. Western Europe was the easiest on that wire, and I had a number of nice conversations with hams in Great Britain and Spain. Nobody ever saw that antenna nor did they ever complain. I rarely had to re-deploy a new wire, if a big storm snapped the existing one, but that was easy.

Later, some criteria we had for our new house was significant land, trees to hang wires in, and NO DEED RESTRICTIONS or homeowner associations to deal with. I've got a Windom up right now, the short leg going to a tree in the front yard, the long leg going to an old clothesline pole at the back of the backyard. The centerpoint is on the top of a mast attached to a disused chimney. Works great.

PRB-1 tends not to intimidate HOAs, as it doesn't specifically answer that need, and those guys tend to either BE lawyers or HAVE lawyers, and it's hard to get them to cave. The ARRL is working on a new version that includes ham antennas in with the satellite dishes they can't restrict, but getting anything like that through Congress pretty much requires a lot of time and perhaps a new star in the East.
Gwen, NG3P                   Author, Cartoonist, Hobbyist
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Antenna In Hoa communities
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2016, 04:55:32 pm »
Lots of regulatory and some technical discussions regarding antenna deed restrictions, HOAs, etc here:
http://www.sham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/board,2.0.html
Additional technical antenna design solutions here:
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/board,31.0.html
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 05:05:01 pm by Electro Fan »
 


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