CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters

[xrunner]

I would imagine there are a few people who find this whole thread insulting.   

Are you happy with what you started? 

I credit the hobby and members in part for my profession.  I knew a few hams who were constantly working with electronics which helped fuel my interest.   I watched it change over the years (of course, I changed too!).   Many were more interested in having a 2 meter radio in their car to hit a local repeater to talk with their wives at home than electronics or the art of radio. 

Same here actually. I remember my Elmer showing me the repeater up in a tall downtown building. They also had phone patches back then which to me was super-cool capability in your car that the average person didn't have. I wanted all of that.

The modern cell phone would be my choice today.  Fit's in your pocket, no license, further range, and 24/7 internet     For the Bird meter, well, there's an app for that!   

Absolutely, no question about it.

Anyway, I'm doing more pricing research, for what it's worth (no pun intended) which will probably not be much 

[tkamiya]

Yes, I forgot this type meter is spec'd percentage of full scale.

Still though, unless you are doing extreme QRP, it shouldn't matter.  Most hams use it to peak the output.  At that point, whether it is 120 watts or 90 watts (unlikely) technique will win pile up, not that extra 30 watts.  Today's most transistorized HF transmitters (tube type tended to drop on 10 meters band) are spot on + legal allowance on overage.

At this point, it's only useful as VSWR meter.

Having said that, I am a ham, too.  ONE MORE WATT....  I understand.  5% accuracy, I understand, too.  By the way, I read somewhere a report from someone who bought a brand new Bird.  His was no where close to 5%.

[TheSteve]

I've been a ham since the late 80's. Back then there just didn't seem to be many options aside from Bird to measure power. They were simply the "go to" product to measure your forward and reflected power(the reflected part is rather important). Not like a typical ham back then was going to have a spectrum analyzer or HP power measurement system. I was in my teens, every ham/electronic item I received was a hand-me-down from other local hams.
These days there are a zillion options and SA's are cheap(you could probably spend more on the attenuator). The Bird 43 is pretty much just a nostalgic option for me. I have one in the nice factory leather case with a decent collection of slugs. I can't remember the last time I used it though and have better measurement options.
I know people who still do just for quick tests, when at a remote site it is nice to have something that needs no batteries and always just seems to work.

[joeqsmith]

Anyway, I'm doing more pricing research, for what it's worth (no pun intended) which will probably not be much 

Looking on eBay, there's not a lot of options for new ones.  A few digital ones,  including kits.  They will want in-line.   I personally need BLE and an app for my Apple cell phone (I don't own a cell phone).    

It would be interesting to see someone do an actual Watt meter shootout for the ham and CB groups. 

By the way, I read somewhere a report from someone who bought a brand new Bird.  His was no where close to 5%.

Of course, my question is how this person measured it (what was their gold standard).   With their in-line RadioShack meter or their amplifier's internal readout?      

...
The Bird 43 is pretty much just a nostalgic option for me. I have one...
I know people who still do just for quick tests, when at a remote site it is nice to have something that needs no batteries and always just seems to work.

I saw videos where they are modifying these old meters to add peak detection.  Battery powered, op-amp.  What these remotes sites are that people keep talking about.   They must have simple modulation, able to break into the transmission line (shutting down the station), no need for precision or accuracy.   Anytime I see them, they are on a desk with three or more attached in series with them.   

[bd139]

Do you get more smoke at the antenna if you measure it three times? Or are they taking an average to remove measurement uncertainty? 

[TheSteve]

The remote locations I speak of are repeater sites ~3500 feet up a mountain(or higher). They are typically FM - transmitter and receiver both feed into a duplexer(and sometimes a circulator) and then on to coax up the tower to the antenna. So easy to break the connection, usually N connectors, 50 MHz to 1.3 GHz equipment.

The peak power mods have been around forever - generally used for SSB.

[joeqsmith]

Do you get more smoke at the antenna if you measure it three times? Or are they taking an average to remove measurement uncertainty? 

Birds are a gold standard.  Their readings are absolute.    However,  you need average/peak for both forward/reflected.  Then two more for a high range.  I think that's what it was.  Six Birds total.    Now that ham's video I linked, I have no idea.  I think it was a case of Watt meter fetish.     

[joeqsmith]

The remote locations I speak of are repeater sites ~3500 feet up a mountain(or higher). They are typically FM - transmitter and receiver both feed into a duplexer(and sometimes a circulator) and then on to coax up the tower to the antenna. So easy to break the connection, usually N connectors, 50 MHz to 1.3 GHz equipment.

The peak power mods have been around forever - generally used for SSB.

I'm envisioning the 80 year old over weight ham, making his way up the mountain side, stopping only for a coffee break.   Oh wait, FM.... The CBer drives their semi truck up the side of the mountain with their trusty Bird in hand.   I'm not buying it.   They don't buy these meters to do this kind of service.   

[xrunner]

Looking on eBay, there's not a lot of options for new ones.  A few digital ones,  including kits.  They will want in-line. 

I put together more pricing options such as used Bird vs used Coaxial Dynamics and hp. Problem was I couldn't locate any used 2 - 30 MHz, 100W Bird elements. They are all either being hoarded, or the extra ones have been burned to a crisp by mis-use. If any were put up for sale they'd likely be nearly as expensive as new ones ($341). There are some 2-30 MHz higher wattages being bid on (no telling the final price). But you have to keep in mind, this is an old-school rig and it's +/- 5% of full scale. Meaning you want to read power as high up the scale as possible. The lower the reading, the worse the accuracy of the final reading taking into account that +/- 5% full scale. So you don't want a 500W element to calibrate an output of 100W or less, and so on.

There are Bird Model 43 meters for sale, For Parts or Not Working. Hey wait ... I thought they were reliable ... 

I put together more pricing comparisons in a file, but I think I'll just keep the file on my computer for now. Certain views can never be changed.

I personally need BLE and an app for my Apple cell phone (I don't own a cell phone).    

Huh?  If you don't have a cell phone how do you text people? 

[joeqsmith]

There are Bird Model 43 meters for sale, For Parts or Not Working. Hey wait ... I thought they were reliable ... 

If you decide to hold a Watt meter buildoff contest,  I may need a dead bird carcass.  They appear large enough that I could put my TFT display and linux server inside.  I want something I can leave on top of the mountain.  I plan to have an internet connection with mine so I can check it while I am out having dinner with the wife.   

Huh?  If you don't have a cell phone how do you text people? 

If you want to talk, it's face to face.  If you want to use social media, this is about the extent of it.   

[TheSteve]

The remote locations I speak of are repeater sites ~3500 feet up a mountain(or higher). They are typically FM - transmitter and receiver both feed into a duplexer(and sometimes a circulator) and then on to coax up the tower to the antenna. So easy to break the connection, usually N connectors, 50 MHz to 1.3 GHz equipment.

The peak power mods have been around forever - generally used for SSB.

I'm envisioning the 80 year old over weight ham, making his way up the mountain side, stopping only for a coffee break.   Oh wait, FM.... The CBer drives their semi truck up the side of the mountain with their trusty Bird in hand.   I'm not buying it.   They don't buy these meters to do this kind of service.

CB doesn't use FM
Not anywhere near 80(yet).

[joeqsmith]

CB doesn't use FM

I know, you like living in the past surround by your old Bird meters but get with the times.

https://www.ccjdigital.com/products/article/15114521/fcc-approves-fm-mode-for-cb-radios

[xrunner]

Huh?  If you don't have a cell phone how do you text people? 

If you want to talk, it's face to face.  If you want to use social media, this is about the extent of it.   

An old friend of mine from apartment living likes to keep in touch with texts. I can handle texting if it's a few sentences, but longer than that - WTF just call me! Anyway she was sending these walls of text and I was wondering how the f*ck you typing all that? Well she said I'm dictating to Siri and it's no big deal. Yea OK ...  I guess I never wanted to set that up, so let me do that so I can make this easy on me.

So I talk into the mic and it's translated into text. Then I send the text. Then she talks into her phone, it's translated into text, and it gets sent back to me.

What's wrong with this picture? 

We're talking into the phone to get a text and the other person is talking to the phone to get a text ... why don't we just like ... talk to each other directly. 

[joeqsmith]

I didn't watch it.  Just first hit from Google on FM CB review. 

[joeqsmith]

...
We're talking into the phone to get a text and the other person is talking to the phone to get a text ... why don't we just like ... talk to each other directly. 

Isn't it obvious?   It's the same reason that Bird is the gold standard!!

What I want to know is when is there going to be a no test amateur license.  They seem to be lagging the CB group.  Then a no license and finally, merge the two.      

[joeqsmith]

All goes silent....  I can hear the birds chirping...

[bd139]

Do you get more smoke at the antenna if you measure it three times? Or are they taking an average to remove measurement uncertainty? 

Birds are a gold standard.  Their readings are absolute.    However,  you need average/peak for both forward/reflected.  Then two more for a high range.  I think that's what it was.  Six Birds total.    Now that ham's video I linked, I have no idea.  I think it was a case of Watt meter fetish.   

Perhaps it's the same as this dude and the watches. A fashion thing? Like truck nuts?



Edit: actually that's about the third time I've mentioned truck nuts this week 

[bd139]

Huh?  If you don't have a cell phone how do you text people? 

If you want to talk, it's face to face.  If you want to use social media, this is about the extent of it.   

An old friend of mine from apartment living likes to keep in touch with texts. I can handle texting if it's a few sentences, but longer than that - WTF just call me! Anyway she was sending these walls of text and I was wondering how the f*ck you typing all that? Well she said I'm dictating to Siri and it's no big deal. Yea OK ...  I guess I never wanted to set that up, so let me do that so I can make this easy on me.

So I talk into the mic and it's translated into text. Then I send the text. Then she talks into her phone, it's translated into text, and it gets sent back to me.

What's wrong with this picture? 

We're talking into the phone to get a text and the other person is talking to the phone to get a text ... why don't we just like ... talk to each other directly. 

Oh don't get me started on that. I don't mind text if I'm honest as I get to choose how long I spend reading them and when I can read them. Voice messages on messaging are the ones that piss me off. My ex wife would actually send me iMessage voice messages while she was having a shit. Literally get a 2m30s long message with her rambling stream of consciousness. By the time I'd got to the actual point of the message she was back in the room and no background sound effects

[xrunner]

Hmmm ... I have run across shocking comments here -

Reviews For: Bird 43

https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=374#

Seems complaints have arisen in more than one review ... that the accuracy is not the claimed +/- 5% ... that it's more like +/- 10 % ... even +/- 20%, checked with an hp power meter. 

Other general complaints include

over rated
dinosaur
won't work reliably
unreliable with age
...

Of course, the others who do not like those reports just exclaim "Who cares it's a Bird dangit and I'm takin' it to my grave when I die!"

 

[bd139]

Other general complaints include

over rated
dinosaur
won't work reliably
unreliable with age

Are you sure the wives weren't reviewing the owners of the Bird meters?

[xrunner]

Other general complaints include

over rated
dinosaur
won't work reliably
unreliable with age

Are you sure the wives weren't reviewing the owners of the Bird meters?

Knowing the owners of a few here, you might be right. 

[TheSteve]

CB doesn't use FM

I know, you like living in the past surround by your old Bird meters but get with the times.

https://www.ccjdigital.com/products/article/15114521/fcc-approves-fm-mode-for-cb-radios

Well to be fair I'm not in the US so FCC rules don't apply

[joeqsmith]

CB doesn't use FM

I know, you like living in the past surround by your old Bird meters but get with the times.

https://www.ccjdigital.com/products/article/15114521/fcc-approves-fm-mode-for-cb-radios

Well to be fair I'm not in the US so FCC rules don't apply

FCC rules don't apply in the US as well.  Haven't you been paying attention to the kWs?       

[joeqsmith]

...
We're talking into the phone to get a text and the other person is talking to the phone to get a text ... why don't we just like ... talk to each other directly. 

Isn't it obvious?   It's the same reason that Bird is the gold standard!!

What I want to know is when is there going to be a no test amateur license.  They seem to be lagging the CB group.  Then a no license and finally, merge the two.   

All goes silent....  I can hear the birds chirping...

Maybe the FCC will start with a no license QRP mode.  I would certainly join in the fun.  Of course, now I have a use for a Bird meter for when the FCC comes a knocking.  I can show how how my meter is only reading 5Watts on my 20W amplifier.   I could just say I was told it's a gold standard and all would be forgiven.   

QRP no licenses, or a no test license... Wait for it!   

[TheSteve]

...
We're talking into the phone to get a text and the other person is talking to the phone to get a text ... why don't we just like ... talk to each other directly. 

Isn't it obvious?   It's the same reason that Bird is the gold standard!!

What I want to know is when is there going to be a no test amateur license.  They seem to be lagging the CB group.  Then a no license and finally, merge the two.   

All goes silent....  I can hear the birds chirping...

Maybe the FCC will start with a no license QRP mode.  I would certainly join in the fun.  Of course, now I have a use for a Bird meter for when the FCC comes a knocking.  I can show how how my meter is only reading 5Watts on my 20W amplifier.   I could just say I was told it's a gold standard and all would be forgiven.   

QRP no licenses, or a no test license... Wait for it!   

Afraid you can't pass the test to get an actual license?