CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters

[pdenisowski]

Interesting narration / voice over style  ... wondering if I should do something similar in my next video

Yes please 

I polled my co-workers and their unanimous reply was that I should stick to my current style

[metrologist]

TBH, I thought it was an AI generated VO. But with the newer better tech.

[A.Z.]

TBH, I thought it was an AI generated VO. But with the newer better tech.

Uh ! I didn't know Bird created its own AI model !

[xrunner]

Bird RF website countdown clock says "10 hours" till the reveal, till they "change everything". Damn that's midnight for me - might have to stay up late. 

[pdenisowski]

It's live now: 

[xrunner]

What I got from the video -

2 to 1000 MHz

(^^^ not ANY Frequency as the previous video stated)

10,000 W HF, 1000 W VHF/UHF

(What is the lowest power you can measure?)

4% accuracy

Six AA batteries

USB for firmware updates

Price? I get a wall asking me for my email address and other information. I'm guessing couple thousand bucks minimum.

[A.Z.]

4% ?!?

[joeqsmith]

Looks like 1Hz refresh.  Will the ham/CBer's go for that?   I wonder what the point of having the remote control is.  It doesn't have a readout.  Can you connect it to a PC for data logging.  That's a lot of batteries.  I wonder do they leak first, or run out of charge.

IMO, this was a pretty piss poor opening video and they should have provided it to a few of the big CB/ham channels.  Then again, they may not want that kind of feedback.   

[xrunner]

That's a lot of batteries.  I wonder do they leak first, or run out of charge.

Yea that's another good point - how long do the batteries last when powered on? 

The first thing that came to my mind upon seeing the AA batteries was  ... leaking. I've had AA batteries leak in remote controls left inside in a benign environment. Yea so you're gonna have a field tech with this thing going around for how long in all kinds of weather, and you can be sure they will never look at the batteries unless the thing doesn't power on, nor will most of them take out the batteries if left unused for a long time.

[pdenisowski]

Looks like 1Hz refresh.  Will the ham/CBer's go for that?   I wonder what the point of having the remote control is.  It doesn't have a readout.  Can you connect it to a PC for data logging.  That's a lot of batteries.  I wonder do they leak first, or run out of charge.

With all RF power sensors, there's always a trade-off between measurement speed and accuracy.  Often this parameter is user-selectable, but I think 1 Hz would be okay for me as a ham radio operator.  And in all fairness to Bird, being able to leave a power meter in line for extended periods of time and monitor it remotely is actually something a lot of customers ask for. 

I do wonder if the meter needs batteries while connected to USB.  And there are "leak proof" Lithium AA batteries available if that's an issue. 

I did get a kick out of "military-grade durability" in their promotional email.  My experience with our military customers is that their definition of "rugged" is completely different from most other customers' definition of "rugged."  I had a Marine once tell me that if he gave each of his guys a rock, by the end of the day a third of them would have found a way to break it

[joeqsmith]

There is no mention of the display update rate or data logging.   There is also no mention of the minimum power levels/accuracy.   Both the manual and datasheet is sparse.


The battery compartment requires 6 AA NiMH rechargeable batteries for normal operation.

Charge Time 6-8 hours typical (Recharge on or off)

Only install rechargeable NiMH AA batteries. Using non-rechargeable batteries may cause permanent damage when charger is connected.

When fully charged the Model 4480A will operate for 8 hours before recharging is required.

If the unit is to be inactive for more than 2 weeks, remove the batteries to avoid damage from possible battery leakage.

12 VDC input connector, this port is used for charging the batteries and/or operating power when batteries are discharged or removed.

USB Port. The USB port is used for firmware upgrades.
Note: When powered USB cable is connected to the Model 4480A, the power meter will automatically power on. The Power button will NOT turn off the unit while a powered USB cable is connected. If performing measurements the power button must be pressed after the USB cable is inserted.

[pdenisowski]

Looks like retail price is 3995 USD

https://store.btgstore.com/44rfpome.html

[TheSteve]

Sold my Bird 43 and slug collection - there was huge demand, people really do love these things!

Keeping my Bird 4421 and sensor head collection

[xrunner]

Looks like retail price is 3995 USD

https://store.btgstore.com/44rfpome.html

Great so there are some specs there (see below)

The complete power range -

2 to 30 MHz: 10 W to 10 kW, low band
25 to 1000 MHz: 1 W to 1 kW, high band

and we have an input attenuator range, which is how it ranges the power input (and prevents damage to the sensor) -

Input Attenuator Range: 0 to 30 dB, 1 dB step

So if you want to measure 5 kW @ 25 MHz, but you accidentally select the VHF/UHF band, does the meter get damaged?

 


Specifications

    Frequency Range:
    Low Band: 2 to 30 MHz
    High Band: 25 to 1000 MHz
    Power Range:
    2 to 30 MHz: 10 W to 10 kW, low band
    25 to 1000 MHz: 1 W to 1 kW, high band
    Accuracy: ±4% of reading (±0.18 dB)
    Display: 240 x 128 pixel transflective backlit LCD
    Peak to Average Ratio: 10 dB (max.)
    Directiviy: 25 dB (min.), 30 dB (typ.)
    Impedance: 50 Ω nominal
    Input Attenuator Range: 0 to 30 dB, 1 dB step
    Display: 240 x 128 pixel transflective backlit LCD
    Battery:
    Type: Internal, NiMH 6-AA
    Operating Time: 8-10 hours (min.)
    Charge Time: 6-8 hours typical (Recharge on or off)
    Certifications: MIL-PRF-28800 Class 3, CE, RoHS, UKCA
    Power Supply: DC 12V, 2A (0.6A max. draw)
    RF Connectors:
    Input: Type N(f); QC type, field changeable
    Output: Type N(f); QC type, field changeable
    Temperature:
    Operating: 0 to 50 °C, (32 to 122 °F)
    Storage: -40 to 71°C (-40 to 159.8 °F)
    Size (W x H x D): 7.3 x 5 x 2.65 in (185.42 x 127 x 67.31 mm)
    Weight: 2.9 lb (1.32 kg) typical, including batteries
    Standard Accessories: (1) 12V Charger, (1) Power Cable
    Optional Accessories: Transit Case, International Cord (UK), Battery Replacement Kit

[pdenisowski]

Was watching a YouTube video from Bird from 3 months ago and noticed this in the background.

Need to start clearing out my "watch later" list on a more regular basis ....

[medical-nerd]

Amateur radio is a great hobby. I design, repair and build valve based equipment based on designs from the 1950's to 1980's for my own use as a radio amateur and for our club members. I have a water cooled 23cm amplifier in the works. Water circulating at 1KV - great fun !!! 

[xrunner]

Joe asked me whether I had finished one of my power meter projects in another thread, I thought he meant the one I was working on here -

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/cb-and-ham-radio-techs-love-their-bird-wattmeters/msg5268060/#msg5268060

He actually meant a different one which I did finish. However, I had not finished the last one linked above, because I got busy on other projects. If you want to know what it was going to do you can read the explanation there. But the simple explanation is that it is a very simple way to look over and see if your WiFi router is actually emitting RF, as a quick way to check it's operating. There is nothing on a wireless router or in the web interface that tells you for sure it's emitting any RF. Of course you can find out in other ways with other tools, but this is a quick way to do it. This device will run 24/7 if you wish, sitting right next to a WiFi router.

So I was reminded of it and I had put all the parts in a box somewhere. I found the box, and it so happens I got a new Netgear router a few weeks ago anyway, so why not finish the project? So I think I'll see where I was on the software and then see about packaging it.

If this thing works the way I think it will, I am probably going to try and build a humanoid robot for my next project.

[joeqsmith]

Joe asked me whether I had finished one of my power meter projects in another thread, I thought he meant the one I was working on here -

...
If this thing works the way I think it will, I am probably going to try and build a humanoid robot for my next project.

Crossing my fingers that it works so we can get on with the robot! 

[xrunner]

Crossing my fingers that it works so we can get on with the robot!

Well I've recently learned so much ... about what not to do I think I'm ahead of the game. 

[xrunner]

Fired up the little meter this afternoon. It's sitting by my new router, and the meter works more or less like I left it. The cheap OLED display has now a permanent line on the side just for sitting in a box. What junky little pieces of crap those displays are.

It needs to have the max and min levels adjusted because the bar height is getting into a "stuck" position. This new router has the 2.4, 5, and 6 GHz bands and my old one didn't have the 6 GHz band. So I think the meter is sensing more total power. I can comment out the bar display code and let it give me the actual power levels it's reading directly on the display so I can fix that.

As far as the case, I had already worked on a professional looking design as you can see in the picture. However, following another thread on this forum I realize that all that work isn't needed. I'll just make a case from bamboo sticks and a cereal box - that will not only look great, it's a pioneering solution to boot.

 

[joeqsmith]

The cheap OLED display has now a permanent line on the side just for sitting in a box. What junky little pieces of crap those displays are.

Let's be fair.  The owner stored the device into a non ESD safe container with other parts and let them shake and bake.   What sort of HV do you expect it to handle?   

I remember us shipping a prototype to a customer once and it arrived DOA.   It was returned.  We opened the box to find it was placed into a box of standard foam peanuts.  The kind that build up so much charge they stick to everything and you spend hours cleaning them up.   No ESD bag or anything was used to protect the device.     Oops... 

[xrunner]

Let's be fair.  The owner stored the device into a non ESD safe container with other parts and let them shake and bake.   What sort of HV do you expect it to handle?   

I expect it to handle a lot!

I remember at work a long time ago replacing some memory on a 486 PC that had to be working for some tests. It was acting weird like the memory was bad in the middle of the day. I removed a memory stick from another MB that wasn't being used and hurriedly opened the PC and swapped out the memory. Uh but when I went to power it on ... it was already on - I hadn't turned it off and I was so worried about getting the PC going I didn't even notice the fans being on. 

However when I reset the PC it worked just fine. Maybe I took bad habits away from the job to my hobbies. 

[A.Z.]

But the simple explanation is that it is a very simple way to look over and see if your WiFi router is actually emitting RF, as a quick way to check it's operating.

not just that, using that device and a floor map, one may create a "heath map" to check for weak signal spots w/o having to carry around a computer, although if there are signals from other WiFi network the device may report incorrect data

[xrunner]

I changed a few parameters in the software and now it's giving a good indication of the power levels it's detecting from the new router. The bar graph is bouncing from min to max and in between using the entire length of the OLED display as the WiFi signals are transmitted, which is the active minimalist sort of display I was looking for.

I have some nice little breakout PCBs already that the Nano board can mount on with two rows of headers. But I need to mount the PCB to a slider that goes into the aluminum case. I already have the basics of a 3D printable slide-in mounting plate from another project that used an UNO board, so I can mod that.

I need to bolt down both the Nano breakout PCB and the AD8307 PCB to the slide-in plate so the SMA ant. connection and USB Mini line up at the back plate of the case. The AD8307 PCB holes are something like M3, so I have lots of that hardware. The Nano board does have four very small holes for screws, and so does the little breakout PCB. These holes appear to be the same diameter on both parts, and the drawing for the Nano board shows the hole dia. is 1.65 mm.

The hardware to use would be M 1.6 screws and nuts, which I don't have. There are "Tiny Screws" kits on Amazon that have Metric M1 M1.2 M1.4 M1.6 M2 M2.5 so I will get one of those kits which will be good to have in any case.

I mean I could just use hot snot and glue it all together but I'm not building an advanced AI humanoid robot.

[xrunner]

I did do some work on the mounting plate, but haven't test-printed it yet. Looking at the pic the AD8307 board would be on the left, and the breakout board that the Nano would be on to the right. The hardware (bolts and nuts) would be M3 on the left and M1.6 on the right .

The boards will sit back as far as needed so the back panel (yet to be designed) will simply have openings so the SMA jack and USB mini jack stick out - no extra hardware needed.