Author Topic: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters  (Read 191722 times)

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Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #600 on: July 24, 2022, 07:53:51 am »
Where do you use them!

I ln your shed. Which is apparently where all these people run. I’m not sure they even have antennas.
 

Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #601 on: July 24, 2022, 11:58:55 am »
5000 to 8000 peck is illegal for any amateur or CBer in the US
Also anything greater than a 15 dB amplification factor is illegal here in US but not in other countries.
However they are in common use in the US.
There are much bigger transmitters in use than these I listed.

Just thought you folks would like to know what is out there. I mean really "out there"

Yea, they do have antennas, Some have big commercial looking antennas. mostly verticals for higher peck transmitters. Some use  Yagi's

I need some breakfast, I am feeling "peckish"
 
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Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #602 on: July 24, 2022, 12:32:35 pm »
5000 to 8000 peck is illegal for any amateur or CBer in the US
Also anything greater than a 15 dB amplification factor is illegal here in US but not in other countries.
However they are in common use in the US.
There are much bigger transmitters in use than these I listed.

Just thought you folks would like to know what is out there. I mean really "out there"

All this 11 meter stuff reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch.

"Oh these amps aren't for the 11 meter band. Wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean! You want to buy one for 'experimentaion' eh? Say no more say no more!"

I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline Mark19960

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #603 on: July 24, 2022, 12:43:39 pm »
5000 to 8000 peck is illegal for any amateur or CBer in the US
Also anything greater than a 15 dB amplification factor is illegal here in US but not in other countries.
However they are in common use in the US.
There are much bigger transmitters in use than these I listed.

Just thought you folks would like to know what is out there. I mean really "out there"

All this 11 meter stuff reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch.

"Oh these amps aren't for the 11 meter band. Wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean! You want to buy one for 'experimentaion' eh? Say no more say no more!"


In the states quite a few of the amp assemblers say these amps are for "medical use".

 
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Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #604 on: July 24, 2022, 12:53:50 pm »
Interesting. Perhaps they will lobotomise themselves with the RF.
 
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Offline Mark19960

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #605 on: July 24, 2022, 01:38:25 pm »
Interesting. Perhaps they will lobotomise themselves with the RF.

I think it had some use 60-70 years ago in a medical setting.
I remember seeing one of the machines. I think they used RF for patient warming or something like that.
I guess they think that if they call it a "medical device" it will somehow keep them out of trouble.
Same way the old sweep tube amps had a crystal socket, oscillator, and jack for a key because it was a "cw transmitter"
 
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #606 on: July 24, 2022, 02:47:18 pm »
Maybe they are sold for novelty use only.   Checking ebay, some nice photos of the workmanship.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195239166874?hash=item2d7529439a:g:f-cAAOSwgHNi1dyE

2-pill, 100-300W depending on...   Wonder how they cool it. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175351580759?hash=item28d3c4c857:g:Dc4AAOSw7DNi0EvV
 
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Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #607 on: July 24, 2022, 02:54:07 pm »
Maybe they are sold for novelty use only.   Checking ebay, some nice photos of the workmanship.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195239166874?hash=item2d7529439a:g:f-cAAOSwgHNi1dyE

2-pill, 100-300W depending on...   Wonder how they cool it. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175351580759?hash=item28d3c4c857:g:Dc4AAOSw7DNi0EvV

LOL some of this stuff looks like it came from a 1970's Popular Electronics project.  :-DD

As far as my progress ...

For the second version of the AD8310-based power meter (non ham band only) I want to use the additional parts shown. Two OLED displays instead of one: 128 x 32 and 128 x 64. These are I2C and of course two different addresses must be used - if I can get away with two displays. Memory issues may be an issue with ATmega328P but there are options available. May also try one larger display but I'd have to get a larger case than the extra one I have. Let's say it'll be a test bed for the time being now.

The selection method for the frequency and ext. att. will be a rotary encoder with push button (no other buttons). Turning the encoder selects the freq. and pushing the button selects the ext. att. I want to select the frequency for the cal factor in steps - maybe every 25 MHz (could in theory be any size 10 kHz, 100 kHz, 1 MHz, etc). The cal factors won't be stored in the same sense as I did last time (they were set by #define for each ham band) and it won't be a look-up table ... still working on that. But I want it to be accurate up to ~500 MHz.

But what I want and what I get doesn't always happen.  :-//
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #608 on: July 24, 2022, 04:11:38 pm »
For cal factors,  I have to use the Signal Hound as a reference but its rated for 20dBm Max.  Adding attenuators is fine but I have no way to remove the error they add.   I can match SA and attenuators with the coupler, attenuators and detector side.   I can measure the attenuators on the VNA, but of course there's errors with that as well.  I really need a Bird golden standard to make any sense of it.


6:00 in, looks like he's a ham.  Funny story.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 04:37:28 pm by joeqsmith »
 

Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #609 on: July 24, 2022, 04:39:57 pm »
Anything that says  "BOX"  is CB
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #610 on: July 24, 2022, 05:01:26 pm »
I didn't watch the whole video but I guess this guy won some of the shootouts.   

Starts with some clips..
https://youtu.be/I37qVE0e-tw?t=3526

Offline Mark19960

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #611 on: July 24, 2022, 05:47:45 pm »
Maybe they are sold for novelty use only.   Checking ebay, some nice photos of the workmanship.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195239166874?hash=item2d7529439a:g:f-cAAOSwgHNi1dyE

2-pill, 100-300W depending on...   Wonder how they cool it. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175351580759?hash=item28d3c4c857:g:Dc4AAOSw7DNi0EvV

I'm sorry but the amps these chaps build are cringe to me.
They are class c amps.. and then they run them on a mode like SSB.. and it sounds so bad.
So they try to bias them and they use these giant cement resistors to shove a voltage into the base of the transistors.... having no idea what the quiescent current is...
Then complain that they run hot when they do that..... and the loss of the "bird watts" in the process...

Then they have these pieces of PCB they use to connect it all together like it's Fred Talbot's weather island in Liverpool.
Not to mention half the time they are bodging and changing caps in places to try to stop them from oscillating.

A proper PCB would go a long, long way..... and not only would they have those "bird watts" but less time building/debugging the thing...
 

Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #612 on: July 24, 2022, 05:50:45 pm »
LOL some of this stuff looks like it came from a 1970's Popular Electronics project.  :-DD

That’s absolute garbage. I wouldn’t pay money for it. I’m sure it sort of works but it’s a prototype and that’s about it  :-DD
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #613 on: July 24, 2022, 06:54:13 pm »
I'm sorry but the amps these chaps build are cringe to me.

I'm sorry but I fail to understand why are you are sorry.   

LOL some of this stuff looks like it came from a 1970's Popular Electronics project.  :-DD

That’s absolute garbage. I wouldn’t pay money for it. I’m sure it sort of works but it’s a prototype and that’s about it  :-DD

Prototype is a good word for it, although I've seen some really good prototypes.   I'm with Mark on this one, Cringe worthy. 

I watched the whole interview.  Interesting as they talk about the 10 second key up time and never starting the engine.  He was doing it all on battery and now using new technologies.   
 
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Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #614 on: July 24, 2022, 08:37:34 pm »
See, I told you.
Now the reason they use Bird Meters is because the metal shell acts as an antenna and they do no have to connect it at all!!!

Sometimes they bring in these boxes into the radio shop.
They do not understand "NO" very well however.
 
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Offline Mark19960

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #615 on: July 24, 2022, 08:46:16 pm »

I'm sorry but I fail to understand why are you are sorry.   


I have a tendency to offend people.... especially CB radio people.... so I am sorry if what I say about their amps offends them...
 

Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #616 on: July 24, 2022, 08:48:13 pm »
See, I told you.
Now the reason they use Bird Meters is because the metal shell acts as an antenna and they do no have to connect it at all!!!

Sometimes they bring in these boxes into the radio shop.
They do not understand "NO" very well however.

So what you're saying is that they have to stick 10kW down the poop chute because the antenna gain of the Bird is -40dB  :-DD

« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 08:52:05 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #617 on: July 24, 2022, 08:51:25 pm »

I'm sorry but I fail to understand why are you are sorry.   


I have a tendency to offend people.... especially CB radio people.... so I am sorry if what I say about their amps offends them...

I don't think you're in a thread which involves apologising to CB'ers. Or hams  :-DD
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #618 on: July 24, 2022, 09:07:21 pm »

I'm sorry but I fail to understand why are you are sorry.   


I have a tendency to offend people.... especially CB radio people.... so I am sorry if what I say about their amps offends them...

I don't think you're in a thread which involves apologising to CB'ers. Or hams  :-DD

Just remember Joe was the one who started the thread.  :-DD
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #619 on: July 24, 2022, 09:08:53 pm »
I think with all the harmonics involved that the bird needs to be more negative than just -40 in dB gain.

Again, my favorite   

Also, this time notice the microphone, one of my favorite mics
 
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #620 on: July 24, 2022, 09:46:08 pm »

I'm sorry but I fail to understand why are you are sorry.   


I have a tendency to offend people.... especially CB radio people.... so I am sorry if what I say about their amps offends them...

I don't think you're in a thread which involves apologising to CB'ers. Or hams  :-DD
Or any of us participating!    :-DD
 
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #621 on: July 24, 2022, 11:19:49 pm »
AM radio next to 50ohm load.   Not very good quality audio and while the update rate is better than the CD shown, I think the Bird lovers would want something much smoother....

 
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Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #622 on: July 24, 2022, 11:56:25 pm »
 :-DD

Oh that made my evening! There's nothing I can do now that can top that!  :clap:
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #623 on: July 25, 2022, 12:54:29 am »
For cal factors,  I have to use the Signal Hound as a reference but its rated for 20dBm Max.  Adding attenuators is fine but I have no way to remove the error they add.   I can match SA and attenuators with the coupler, attenuators and detector side.   I can measure the attenuators on the VNA, but of course there's errors with that as well.  I really need a Bird golden standard to make any sense of it.


6:00 in, looks like he's a ham.  Funny story.



Well, that's 9:38 of my life I'll never get back----I gave up at that point!
So Ameritron are a pain in the butt,---big deal!

Such attitudes have always been with us, despite the bloke in the video's "rose coloured" view of the past!
I remember years ago (1970s) getting a dead 23ch SSB CB radio cheap, with the intent of modifying it to the 10m ham band, then using it to drive a 2m transverter.

The repair was easy, but the mod not so much, & when I tried to get a schematic, the local agent wouldn't let me have one.
I finally got one through a friend who was selling the things---not that brand, strangely, but by that time, I had become disenchanted with the whole idea, & put it aside.

One advantage of the Internet is that you can download blurry photocopies freely, instead of having to go begging for them!

Then there was Philips, who used to have a supercilious bastard on the Parts counter, who would use any fine print to prevent you getting "trade price" for things.
After their Service section returned my Philishave in  parts in a cardboard box, it confirmed my feeling that Philips were bastards!
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #624 on: July 25, 2022, 12:58:05 am »

I'm sorry but I fail to understand why are you are sorry.   


I have a tendency to offend people.... especially CB radio people.... so I am sorry if what I say about their amps offends them...

I don't think you're in a thread which involves apologising to CB'ers. Or hams  :-DD

And yet, some of the "gee I'm offensive" heros get distinctly affronted if anyone questions their statements---go figure!
 


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