CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters

[A.Z.]

That's a nice find.   

The video I had linked with the ham using elements from a hot water heater (and wondering why it did not have decent wideband performance) just needed to take the next step.   In the attached picture we can see a young ham working on their load.   I suspect this youngster later became the chief engineer for Bird.

notice the torque tool used to properly adjust the thing by fine tuning the trimmer

[joeqsmith]

Amp1:  To invest the least amount of time, I used my Labjack generic data acquisition system to interface with the eval board.  Note the 50 ohm load attached to the Brymen.

Amptest1: Shown collecting data with the 100 and 25 ohm loads attached.   

Amp2: Carbon resistors are not stable with temperature.  Shown is the 50 ohm load with thermocouple to monitor it's temperature.

Amptest1: Collecting data with the 50 ohm load attached.  It's pretty stable until it starts to heat up.   

Amp3, Amp4:  Took it a bit over 80C then tried to measure the resistance out of circuit without letting it cool too much.. 

Amptest3:  Because ham's only understand SWR...   Imagine, a 5W radio attached to a decent load with good return loss and trying to measure VSWR with your Bird's 10W slug.  Sure, you can flip the direction. After all, it's the gold standard and has no error.   

[xrunner]

Lookin' good. 

[joeqsmith]

Better load with larger amplifier, sampling every second (5700 seconds) or a bit over an hour and a half.  Seems fairly stable.   Fun little part to play with but now I wonder if there are better parts available today.   

[xrunner]

I printed a prototype of the PCB tray for the smaller case. Need to make a few more tweaks to it and it'll be good to go.

I got the larger blue OLED display running. The same items are displayed except for one new thing. I added a "heartbeat" icon to the center top. In case you have a very stable display it tells you that the thing isn't locked-up. Hey I'm using only 57% of program storage space. Man I gotta get this thing bloated up to near 100%. 

Now need to tweak the front and back case panels designs, 3D print, and apply a metallized shielding material to the back of the plastic, which I'm examining options for.

[joeqsmith]

Hey I'm using only 57% of program storage space. Man I gotta get this thing bloated up to near 100%. 

How about adding something like this with the Bird logo?

[xrunner]

Hey I'm using only 57% of program storage space. Man I gotta get this thing bloated up to near 100%. 

How about adding something like this with the Bird logo?

Well it's funny you would present that. I'm going to make a second RF power meter using a different set of ideas after I finish this one. One idea would be an analog bar meter or it could be a meter like the one in the video. You could use it for peaking an output a lot easier than looking at digits. It's just a matter of drawing a line from the same point to different points along an arc ... but I'm jumping ahead. I already purchased another AD8301 board and case.

Hey I'm just trying to keep your thread going so I'm doing my part. 

[joeqsmith]

Bargraph would like nice. 

This guy shows one with bargraphs and a clock.  You can never have enough clocks or cowbells.

[Mark19960]

Since this thread got created I have been somewhat more vigilant with regards to wattmeters.

I have some CB friends and some amateur radio friends.
What I have noticed is that whilst hams might have a bird meter... its usually sitting there but not connected.
Usually they have a telepost LP100/500/700 in leu of a bird meter.

Now, when it comes to CB operators.... not only might there be multiple meters, but they are chasing the mythical watt.
They are always in-line and usually with a minimum of 2 meters - one reading forward and the other reverse.
Most of them hate any form of digital measuring device because "they are inaccurate"
They also seem to covet the slugs that read higher.

What this says to me is that it's more of a feeling or opinion than being based on facts or quantifiable evidence.
I got a funny look yesterday when I said... the truth is what the facts are.

But you still need coax cut to a specific frequency..... because the Bird manuals says so.

[joeqsmith]

... hams might have a bird meter  ...

While I do post more videos of CB hobbyists as I find them more entertaining, it's not fair that we don't also represent the ham's with their multiple Birds.   

...but they are chasing the mythical watt.

It may be that the CB channels are cashing in and the Birds are considered an investment.  Their customer's may want to see the Birds.  If you sell engines, fuel economy is an advantage.  A MPG may make a big difference in sales.  The CB tuners and amp builders are selling watts. 

...usually with a minimum of 2 meters - one reading forward and the other reverse.

At least three to show peak, average, reflect without changing the setup.  More meters the better..

... hate any form of digital measuring device because "they are inaccurate"

On this site, there have been several threads dedicated to analog vs digital multimeters.  These heated discussions don't take place in the beginner's area.   Similar with the analog/digital scopes. 

What this says to me is that it's more of a feeling or opinion than being based on facts or quantifiable evidence.

You get that a lot when you talk with people in general.   

Onto some hams with Birds....   First up, multi-Bird light bulb experiment.


Towards the end we can see Bird #2.


Normally hams will provide their call sign during any form of communications.   That and 73.   This guy seems to be a bit of an odd duck in that regard.   He does like his Birds...

[joeqsmith]

While searching for hams with Birds, I came across this guy who has apparently made a business of making meters.   If you checkout his website, he posts a link to his patent.  I have not read it but have some idea on the costs.  Surprised that it didn't eat up all of his profits. 

[xrunner]

Now, when it comes to CB operators.... not only might there be multiple meters, but they are chasing the mythical watt.
They are always in-line and usually with a minimum of 2 meters - one reading forward and the other reverse.
Most of them hate any form of digital measuring device because "they are inaccurate"
They also seem to covet the slugs that read higher.

What this says to me is that it's more of a feeling or opinion than being based on facts or quantifiable evidence.

Hi Mark. It is all about feelings it seems. If you look at a document that explains "S-Meters" and the "official" scale you will see that the S units increase 6 dB for every S reading on the scale (see attached document). So S8 is -79 dBm and S9 is -73 dBm. After S9 they increase in 10 dB steps such as S9 +10, (they call it ten over) and so on.

The point is that an increase from S3 to S4 is 6dB, but what is the power increase? Well its double the power. You'd have to double your transmitter power for the receiving end to see their S meter go up only 1 S unit.

In other words, if you were transmitting 100W you'd have to go up to 200W for the other end to see the S meter move only 1 S unit (given the same antenna and coax). And I doubt they would even notice. Same thing for 500W - double it for only a S unit increase of one.

So if you are chasing small increases in power on the scale, it isn't going to make any difference in the quality at the other end. It's all about seeing a meter move up a little on a scale, but it isn't going to matter.

[joeqsmith]

That's an interesting read.   I think there were some audiophile's in the early days of radio and it stuck as I wouldn't have expected there was a lot of marketing BS in the early days.  Google takes us to Wiki: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_strength_and_readability_report

***
I had no idea that it was the first thing the hams blab about.   So the meter was a way to remove the human from having to figure out how to rank the person on the other end?  Funny read.

So, thank goodness, we have another way to give honest signal reports, one that is totally accurate, unbiased, the same no matter what the make of the rig or the disposition of the operator. I speak of the S-meter. It is the ubiquitous little device available on most every commercially made piece of ham gear or SWL receiver, and since it is—by definition—a meter, it has to be correct. And since all the operator has to do is say where its needle points when giving a signal evaluation, it removes all prejudice from the resulting report.

https://www.eham.net/article/16849

***
From the comments:

S-meter = 30$ more
clarifier = 280$ more
squelch = 30$ more
rf gain = 40$ more
af gain = 20$ more (than labeled "vol control")
AM/CW/SSB/Tune rotary switch (whatever that is) = 200$ more
11m = 1,000.oo$$$ more
PA/CB switch = 500$ more

S-Meter calibrate knob - priceless...

(turn it until the meter reads the report you want to give) :-)

   

[bd139]

Funny bit is all the contesters who just report 599 because it slows them down thinking about it.

I was actually proud to get a 2 for readability once because I knew someone was actually listening for once. That was trying to TX with one BD139 transistor. I got half a contact with it which was good enough for me. Then the transistor popped 

[xrunner]

I printed a second version of the slide-in tray. I mounted the PCBs on it, and cleaned up some of the wiring. For the moment it is as shown.

After re-assembling the parts on slide-in tray I re-tested the system and noticed that at and below ~15 MHz the power levels being displayed were not quite stable. However, when I checked the Vo output of the AD8310 board with a DMM at these lower frequencies, it seemed rock solid. I decided to check the Vo output with my scope and I noted a P-P noise level of 800 mV at lower HF frequencies. Checking datasheet for output filtering, the equation given on p.18 worked out to 0.5 nF. Had 1 nF cap on-hand and added to BFin pin 6. This solved the issue.

The reason I didn't notice this before in all the testing was because I was taking DC voltage measurements with a DMM which will not reveal this type of amplitude response (which does not appear anyway above HF frequencies).

 

[joeqsmith]

Is the breadboard the front cover?     That would be a first.    Looks nice.

[xrunner]

Is the breadboard the front cover?     That would be a first.    Looks nice.

Patience, patience ... 

[vk6zgo]

Onto some hams with Birds....   First up, multi-Bird light bulb experiment.

In this video, having two Birds was obviously the easiest way to do it, without filling footage with the unedifying sight of a ham swapping cables back & forth, & stops some smarty saying: "But you changed the setup from before!".
Absolute accuracy was not of any great concern.

Towards the end we can see Bird #2.

W2AEW is a well known contributor to this forum, & he covers a lot of useful information quite quickly in this video.

Normally hams will provide their call sign during any form of communications.   That and 73.   This guy seems to be a bit of an odd duck in that regard.   He does like his Birds...

Most people don't use their callsign if they are using a test load---I suspect mine might be a bit "leaky", so I often do!!

None of these videos support the ongoing narrative of hams being "no-nothing schmucks", nor the probably inadvertent denigration of Bird wattmeters.

Most Techs, (by trade, not the inappropriate name for a particular US licence grade) as well as hams (& they are often the same people) are happy to get a reading which is "in the paddock", & are a bit mystified by some of the arguments amongst those of the metrologist bent, over minor points of difference, which could be likened to the disputes in early centuries amongst religious scholars as to "how many angels could dance on the head of a pin".

[joeqsmith]

Normally hams will provide their call sign during any form of communications.   That and 73.   This guy seems to be a bit of an odd duck in that regard.   He does like his Birds...

Most people don't use their callsign if they are using a test load---I suspect mine might be a bit "leaky", so I often do!!

Take your username for example.

[vk6zgo]

Normally hams will provide their call sign during any form of communications.   That and 73.   This guy seems to be a bit of an odd duck in that regard.   He does like his Birds...

Most people don't use their callsign if they are using a test load---I suspect mine might be a bit "leaky", so I often do!!

Take your username for example.

I might have maybe called myself "The Blue Wombat" or something, but that sounds a bit "CB-ish", & maybe infringes on Poppa Smurf's territory.
Besides, being both lazy & old, I might forget a newer username, but  after all these years, I know my callsign.
In this case, it's my brain that's leaky, not my test load!
 

[joeqsmith]

Normally hams will provide their call sign during any form of communications.   That and 73.   This guy seems to be a bit of an odd duck in that regard.   He does like his Birds...

Most people don't use their callsign if they are using a test load---I suspect mine might be a bit "leaky", so I often do!!

Take your username for example.

I might have maybe called myself "The Blue Wombat" or something, but that sounds a bit "CB-ish", & maybe infringes on Poppa Smurf's territory.
Besides, being both lazy & old, I might forget a newer username, but  after all these years, I know my callsign.
In this case, it's my brain that's leaky, not my test load!
 

I never ask the reason why, only suggesting that it's a pattern I have noticed like their shared love of Bird meters.   I've actually seen them introduce themselves in public using their call signs, like it has some meaning.  From my perspective, it does but I doubt its the intended reason.     

[joeqsmith]

Onto some hams with Birds....   First up, multi-Bird light bulb experiment.

In this video, having two Birds was obviously the easiest way to do it, without filling footage with the unedifying sight of a ham swapping cables back & forth, & stops some smarty saying: "But you changed the setup from before!".
Absolute accuracy was not of any great concern.

I think I left you with the impression that I actually had taken the time to watch these three videos I linked.  Where really all I was showing for our friend Mark was examples of hams who had more than one Bird meter.  It seemed from their comment they had the impression that was a unique trait for the CB techs.   Clearly it's not.  Hence the title of the thread.   

[vk6zgo]

Onto some hams with Birds....   First up, multi-Bird light bulb experiment.

In this video, having two Birds was obviously the easiest way to do it, without filling footage with the unedifying sight of a ham swapping cables back & forth, & stops some smarty saying: "But you changed the setup from before!".
Absolute accuracy was not of any great concern.

I think I left you with the impression that I actually had taken the time to watch these three videos I linked.  Where really all I was showing for our friend Mark was examples of hams who had more than one Bird meter.  It seemed from their comment they had the impression that was a unique trait for the CB techs.   Clearly it's not.  Hence the title of the thread.

Perhaps you should have-- Alan Wolke, quite apart from his W2AEW persona is a TEA person, who has a lot of test equipment, & a great insight into the basics & "nitty gritty" of all sorts of devices.
He does have more than one Bird meter, but he also, like most on this thread, has multiple Oscilloscopes, both DSOs & analog, signal generators, spectrum analysers, etc.

The other two blokes were pretty rational about their Birds, although the last one seems to be something of a collector.

Before Mark mentioned it, I had never heard of the telepost LP100/500/700------maybe it is big in the UK.

I have probably spoken to hams with a, or even multiple Bird wattmeters, but, if so, they never mentioned it.
Personally, I am too poor to afford a Bird, & even if I wasn't, there are other things with higher priority.
I use cruddy little SWR meters from the Hamfest, which get me "in the paddock"

The only time in my working life that I have routinely used a Bird wattmeter was in the job immediately prior to retirement, where we used one to match the output power of a number of transmitters in an ISM application--absolute power accuracy wasn't necessary, just as long as it was near correct & repeatable.
In other jobs, I have just used one which was already installed inline for a "quick check", as part of a "flying visit" to a remote site.

[joeqsmith]

I think I left you with the impression that I actually had taken the time to watch these three videos I linked.  Where really all I was showing for our friend Mark was examples of hams who had more than one Bird meter....

Perhaps you should have-- Alan Wolke, quite apart from his W2AEW persona is a TEA person, who has a lot of test equipment....

Perhaps.  Not everyone shares the same interests.  While some of the videos I watch are educational, they typically have nothing to do with electronics.   I did watch a presentation W2AEW gave to a ham radio group where he was discussing the low cost VNAs.  That was a rare case.   

While it may appear that I am a collector of test equipment, they serve as tools to support my electronics hobby.  One of the things I like about electronics is that it covers so many areas.  The down side of not focusing on one area, it leads to having a bit of test equipment.   I don't buy it to have it on a shelf to talk about.   

Personally, I am too poor to afford a Bird, & even if I wasn't, there are other things with higher priority.

Priorities have prevented me from pursuing a few projects.   Higher end equipment can easily exceed my budge.  I typically buy very old systems that I have to work on which can be part of the fun.  While I could afford a new Bird meter with some slugs, I would rather spend it on hand held meters that I lay to waste.  The second being far more useful.   

A VNA is just an antenna analyzer and that's really all a Bird meter is...   

[joeqsmith]

When I first started working on software for the low cost VNAs, hams would send me private emails (they love to use their call signs) asking for help.   There are several open platforms for people to discuss such matters and help one another and I have been told that the hams always help one another out.   Still they insist on keeping things off line.  I asked a few why and they were blunt about not wanting to look bad among their peers.  The needed to be perceived as some technical leader that was looked up to.  Now, I would think that comes from actually knowing your shit but it seems they buy the Bird meters for the same reason. 

If you want to be the comm tech of your group or whatever, you truly need one of these.