Author Topic: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters  (Read 177325 times)

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Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #325 on: June 29, 2022, 11:44:00 am »
Joe, no one has said you are a condescending elitist prick (as far as you know).

Not to be elitist, but to whoever made that video, "condenscending" is spelled wrong. I guess the video is for the beginning speller too.

 :-DD

So the Bird meter he says was "bouncing around in my truck" for years. Wonder what a nice simple protective case could have done for that problem? I guess tapping the meter with your HT is good for the HT too? So many good pointers for viewers.  :-+
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #326 on: June 29, 2022, 01:24:07 pm »
.. no one has said you are a condescending elitist prick (as far as you know).

He's addressing the ham radio condensing elitist pricks.   I've been called much worse and I'm fine with it.   :-DD 

Quote
I guess tapping the meter with your HT is good for the HT too?
  Ham's repair their Bird elements this way, why not the meter movement?  It's a cheap fix...

It's a little known secrete that hams have used their Birds to measure vectors for years.   
 
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Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #327 on: June 29, 2022, 01:33:29 pm »
Still tweaking the front and back panels. Need to add additional holes for the rear SO-239 and the front buttons. Adding one additional button (will explain later) for total of three.

Even though the blue OLED display is the same functional part, the board and wiring isn't the same as the one I had in my parts drawer. As I explained earlier, whoever made the batch I got this one from changed the order of the pins (reversing PWR and GND). But they also slightly changed the spacing of the holes just enough so it won't fit the spacing of the "pins" I use to mount the little board.

The only thing constant is change.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #328 on: June 29, 2022, 01:44:07 pm »
Oooh 3DP front panels. That's a great idea. I absolutely despise metalwork so might have to buy another bloody Ender at this rate  :-DD

When I've moved!
 
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Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #329 on: June 29, 2022, 02:09:55 pm »
Cool. I tried 3D printed panels for my last project and they worked out, as you say I hate trying to make odd holes in metal, but they didn't need to be metal (i.e. function as RF shielding).

I want these to function as RF sheilding too, so I will be fixing that issue with a product in a few days.  :popcorn:
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #330 on: June 30, 2022, 01:05:29 am »
I did a test using my external 100W 40 dB attenuator, because I'll need it later testing higher power levels. I wanted to compare what my hp 437B measured against the project power meter. I set the Agilent 8648A to it's Max power output (+13 dBm), with a freq. of 146 MHz (2m ham band). This is not a damaging level to either meter even without the attenuator.

The results were very good. The hp 437B read -28.07 and the project meter read -28.3 dBm. For a few dollars in hardware parts that's not bad.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #331 on: June 30, 2022, 04:14:56 am »
Joe, no one has said you are a condescending elitist prick (as far as you know).

Not to be elitist, but to whoever made that video, "condenscending" is spelled wrong. I guess the video is for the beginning speller too.

 :-DD

So the Bird meter he says was "bouncing around in my truck" for years. Wonder what a nice simple protective case could have done for that problem? I guess tapping the meter with your HT is good for the HT too? So many good pointers for viewers.  :-+

I would say "the condescension is strong in this thread."

"Bouncing around in my truck" was more a figure of speech----the thing wasn't literally bouncing about on the tray of a truck.
Protective cases are nice, but if the thing is packed into a cardboard box with a bit of padding it would do equally well.
Old analog meter movements do stick from time to time.

Tapping the side of a device is a legitimate troubleshooting method-----if it makes the meter work, that shows the movement isn't a write off & may well be fixable.

A "hardcore" approach would be to open up the movement & relieve the sticking by maybe just blowing crud out with compressed air, or perhaps going further, gently checking to see if the bearings are adjusted correctly, & various other things which may suggest themselves.

As to damage to the handheld radio-----they are fairly rugged, especially if they are commercial units.

We don't even know if this bloke is a ham, as from what he says, it seems his job is looking after some organisation's VHF/UHF two way radio network, and hams may have been making comments that "got his goat" a bit!

 

Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #332 on: June 30, 2022, 11:02:53 am »
I would say "the condescension is strong in this thread."

Well I could have gone to YT and posted my comments.  :-DD

You may not know this, but I've been a ham since 1974 - 48 years. I know these people very, very well especially the ones I deal with in my area.  :)
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #333 on: June 30, 2022, 11:30:01 am »
Indeed.

I've not been a ham that long (2019) and that was mostly because I was put off by the condescending pricks in the 1990s. And recently put off by the condescending pricks on 2m and 80m again :-DD

I actually shredded my license last week because I am so done with it. Tech fine, people bad.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #334 on: June 30, 2022, 11:34:11 am »
I would say "the condescension is strong in this thread."

I did a quick Google search in order to gain some perspective to help gauge your comment.   Here are a few interesting reads:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/learn-some-basic-theory-please!/msg48228/#msg48228

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-302-electronics-beginner-advice/msg125851/#msg125851

I tried adding Bird to the search.  Seems you have discussed them before. 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/power-amplifier-high-frequency-power-loss/msg714230/#msg714230


Quote
We don't even know if this bloke is a ham, as from what he says, it seems his job is looking after some organisation's VHF/UHF two way radio network, and hams may have been making comments that "got his goat" a bit!
To be fair, I don't know if the people running the CB amp builder channels are hams.  Not all hams feel the need to plaster their call sign on everything they are involved with or greet you with Hi, I'm Jim, kaxdj.  :-DD

« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 11:48:09 am by joeqsmith »
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #335 on: June 30, 2022, 11:47:22 am »
Indeed.

I've not been a ham that long (2019) and that was mostly because I was put off by the condescending pricks in the 1990s. And recently put off by the condescending pricks on 2m and 80m again :-DD

I actually shredded my license last week because I am so done with it. Tech fine, people bad.
Let's hope that's not the true and if it is, it doesn't represent the majority of hams.
 :-DD :-DD :-DD

In the 90s I thought about getting a ham license.  I bought an old radio and listened to HF for a while.  It was like I created a time machine and was back in the 70's listening to CB.  I never thought about it after that.   

Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #336 on: June 30, 2022, 11:50:02 am »
Indeed.

I've not been a ham that long (2019) and that was mostly because I was put off by the condescending pricks in the 1990s. And recently put off by the condescending pricks on 2m and 80m again :-DD

I actually shredded my license last week because I am so done with it. Tech fine, people bad.
Let's hope that's not the true and if it is, it doesn't represent the majority of hams.
 :-DD :-DD :-DD

In the 90s I thought about getting a ham license.  I bought an old radio and listened to HF for a while.  It was like I created a time machine and was back in the 70's listening to CB.  I never thought about it after that.

Enough to maintain a reputation without being dishonest.

Honestly, and I’m ashamed to admit this, I was a CB’er in the 90s. Had a midland portable, pole antenna and an illegal amp. But it was so dead in the UK it was boring. Occasional truck driver and that was about it. Eventually someone I know bought a handheld and we used that for a few months. Then we got mobile phones  :-DD
 
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #337 on: June 30, 2022, 12:10:07 pm »
I started with toy 100mW walkie talkies.  A friend loaned me a 5W radio (laughing idiot as it was known back then  :-DD) and I got my CB license before eventually moving onto ham radio.  These were stepping stones towards engineering (not engineering in the sense that anyone who calls themself an engineer is an engineer as is popular on this site).   I'm not ashamed of the path I took.

Now if you want to hail the Bird meter as a gold standard that apparently makes you the "comm tech of your group", then I could understand your being ashamed!   :-DD
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #338 on: June 30, 2022, 12:33:47 pm »
I would say "the condescension is strong in this thread."

Well I could have gone to YT and posted my comments.  :-DD

You may not know this, but I've been a ham since 1974 - 48 years. I know these people very, very well especially the ones I deal with in my area.  :)

I only have 45 years on the clock, getting my licence in 1977.

My experience with hams has been contrary to yours, perhaps as most of those I know are either currently, or were employed in Electronics, many being ex-workmates of mine.
That said, one of the most prominent Amateurs (now SK), in microwave work in my State, with a number of distance records to his credit, was a medical practitioner.



 
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #339 on: June 30, 2022, 01:28:26 pm »

I only have 45 years on the clock, getting my licence in 1977.

My experience with hams has been contrary to yours, perhaps as most of those I know are either currently, or were employed in Electronics, many being ex-workmates of mine.
That said, one of the most prominent Amateurs (now SK), in microwave work in my State, with a number of distance records to his credit, was a medical practitioner.

I was "off the clock" in ham radio during my career. After I retired I got back into it around 2013. It lasted until this spring, when I disconnected my VHF/UHF radios and set them away in the closet. Couldn't take the bigotry, religious, political, and just plain stupid talk I was hearing. They have every right to speak it, but I also have every right to turn them off.

I still keep in touch with a few by phone, and one comes over here to check out my projects and to go eat at the local Thai restaurant for lunch. I remember the first time he came over. Not ever coming over (but meeting me at a ham sidewalk sale), he didn't know what to expect. He probably expected to see a basic ham equipment on a desk, but he was blown away with all the test instruments. This stuff is not what they have any experience with (and I don't expect them to).

I have fixed radios for a lot of people including him. Last year he had a DMR handy-talkie that he said was "dead" when he turned it on in the morning. He was exclaiming to everyone that "this thing is dead and there is no coming back to life for it! I'll just buy another one." I told him to wait why not let me check it out - what do you have to lose? He brought it over but didn't seem to think there was any chance to fix it. Long story short - it was a battery terminal on the PCB that wasn't designed very well and the screw wasn't making contact any longer with the PCB trace. It isn't something you could see you had to take a bunch of fiddly parts off. Let's just say he ate a little crow. I've also fixed radios with the simplest of problems. Why can't these people even try? They don't seem to even want to take the cover off and look inside.

Electronics projects? Nope. Other than putting up antennas they don't do projects or even kits. If they are doing them they sure don't say a word about it on the radio, yet they will speak any opinion about any possible subject. No, they will either send in a broken radio or buy a new one. There is only one other guy in the area that works on them.

There are very smart intelligent hams out there concerning electronics knowledge, I've never said there wasn't. But unfortunately my local group seems to be an "outlier".

I'll leave you with a picture I've shown before. A ham transceiver I had to bug-bomb before fixing. Why? Because it was full of little critters as delivered to me ... use your imagination.

That's enough.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #340 on: June 30, 2022, 01:30:10 pm »
With hams no longer required to learn basic Morse code, Silent Key seems like it too should be laid to rest.  I would suggest SM for Silent Mic but it has other meanings.    :-DD   

Are we having a contest on what year we got a ham license?  Does it carry some significance like the number of Bird meters we have (or don't)? I will need to see if I saved it.  I may still have some of the post cards.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 01:33:56 pm by joeqsmith »
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #341 on: June 30, 2022, 02:28:54 pm »
With hams no longer required to learn basic Morse code, Silent Key seems like it too should be laid to rest.  I would suggest SM for Silent Mic but it has other meanings.    :-DD   

I could have said "passed on", "departed this vale of tears", "gone to a better place", or "turned up his toes"---one euphemism is as good as the other!
Quote

Are we having a contest on what year we got a ham license? 
If we are, you have already won! ;D
Quote

Does it carry some significance like the number of Bird meters we have (or don't)? I will need to see if I saved it.  I may still have some of the post cards.
In Oz, we are required to have the original Certificate available for perusal by a Radio inspector, or at least, we "used to"!
The rule may have changed, but I still have kept it handy ever since.
On the other hand, we are not required to possess a Bird meter! ;D
 

Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #342 on: June 30, 2022, 02:39:41 pm »
Please keep SK. It's easier to find their auctions on ebay  :-DD

I actually bought a couple of ARRL books a while ago at a hamfest, sold them on ebay for £30 each, then bought the exact same books from an SK stand at another hamfest 6 months later for £0.50 each and sold them on ebay again for £30 each :scared:.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 02:41:29 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #343 on: July 01, 2022, 01:26:41 am »
Managed to get the front and back case panels printed. For the front we have three holes for buttons and one for the screen. On the back, holes for DC power, USB, and SO-239.

Waiting on another product which will be applied to the back of the panels.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #344 on: July 01, 2022, 01:39:04 am »
Please keep SK. It's easier to find their auctions on ebay  :-DD

I actually bought a couple of ARRL books a while ago at a hamfest, sold them on ebay for £30 each, then bought the exact same books from an SK stand at another hamfest 6 months later for £0.50 each and sold them on ebay again for £30 each :scared:.
Way back in the day, (1970s/'80s) we had a local swapmeet (not a ham one) in Fremantle on several floors of a multi-storey car park.
I used to like to wander about, finding various interesting things.

Apart from the usual secondhand clothing, tools, car bits, fishing gear, etc, there were a lot of old school car radios,which often had surprisingly high quality parts in them, various portable & mantel radios,etc, the occasional few professional level variable caps & things, as well as various levels of "radio" magazines.

Most of the mags were pretty forgettable "CB" things, but there were the occasional "gems", like a then current "ARRL Antenna Book" for $2.00, & the latest issue of "Electronics Australia" mag for 40c.
Maybe a "SK", or perhaps a mistaken addition to the pile! ;D

I haven't been to a general swap meet for years, as the quality of junk has fallen badly!
 
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #345 on: July 01, 2022, 02:24:42 am »
Looks like the earliest cards I was able to find were from 1977.  The one from Madrid Spain was the furthest I found.   I imagine most of these people have long since passed away. 

Are you going to print any lettering into the plastic, or is that the big surprise? 
 
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Offline TheUnnamedNewbie

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #346 on: July 01, 2022, 07:40:12 am »
To chip in, my experience with HAMs isn't the best. Lots of Dunning-Kruger, people telling me I don't know what I'm doing, etc. Also a lot of them seem to be stuck in terms of technology, can't possible use simulation, simulation is worthless! (yet IC designers everywhere have been relying on simulation for decades to get first-time-right analog and RF circuits).

The best part about magic is when it stops being magic and becomes science instead

"There was no road, but the people walked on it, and the road came to be, and the people followed it, for the road took the path of least resistance"
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #347 on: July 01, 2022, 09:52:59 am »
This is true. If you ever want a laugh, when a ham demands or laments the MPF102, tell them to just use a 2N5485.

They are way more attached to those than the Birds  :-DD

Edit: Also I pissed off someone on the Elecraft reflector after they shipped a duff JFET (J310) in a kit I bought from them. Rather than wait for a replacement part, I just picked a close part I had on hand (J309) and it worked fine because I know what it was designed for and why it was selected. I was told it couldn't possibly work! Yeaaaah  :palm:
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 11:25:02 am by bd139 »
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #348 on: July 01, 2022, 11:27:06 am »
To chip in, my experience with HAMs isn't the best. Lots of Dunning-Kruger, people telling me I don't know what I'm doing, etc. Also a lot of them seem to be stuck in terms of technology, can't possible use simulation, simulation is worthless! (yet IC designers everywhere have been relying on simulation for decades to get first-time-right analog and RF circuits).

You've heard of water boarding right? It's a method to break people and get them to tell you what you want to know. They say it's torture. Well I can beat that easily. Just set them down in front of a 2m radio and make them listen and talk to the local hams here for a week. Before a week is up they'll be begging for the radio to be turned off and they'll tell you anything you want to know. Plus, no one can say it's official torture because it's ham radio! 

 :-DD

Looks like the earliest cards I was able to find were from 1977.  The one from Madrid Spain was the furthest I found.   I imagine most of these people have long since passed away. 

Cards? See pic below. That's not all I have either.

Quote
Are you going to print any lettering into the plastic, or is that the big surprise?

Hadn't planned on it, but I'll look into it and try one. Might be OK for the front. I'll have to use at least one label anyway. I definitely want to make a red warning label to put next to the RF input.

Warning: Must use attenuator
if input exceeds +13 dBm (20 mW)


Not that people would actually read it ... but at least it absolves me of any blame. :-+
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 11:28:50 am by xrunner »
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters
« Reply #349 on: July 01, 2022, 11:34:33 am »
To chip in, my experience with HAMs isn't the best. Lots of Dunning-Kruger, people telling me I don't know what I'm doing, etc. Also a lot of them seem to be stuck in terms of technology, can't possible use simulation, simulation is worthless! (yet IC designers everywhere have been relying on simulation for decades to get first-time-right analog and RF circuits).

With respect, there is "simulation & simulation"!
The simulators IC designers use are a lot more sophisticated than the freebie ones used by some posters in the "beginners" section in this forum.

Strangely, hams have been using computer modelling of antennas since the mid 1990s, which was certainly not being "stuck in terms of technology"!

Definition of "Dunning-Kruger"------a term used by lay people who believe they know more about Psychology than they do!  ;D
 


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