CB and Ham Radio Techs Love Their Bird Wattmeters

[bd139]

I did microwave avionics stuff for military. We definitely used torque wrenches.

Well I tell a lie, we had them but they only got used on anything we'd get fired for not using them with.

I watched a 60 Minutes episode (or some such show) back in the 80's  that I believe was the catalyst for this:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-congress/senate-bill/20/text

Of course I could be totally wrong but from what I remember large company was supplying electronics to the DOD.  They could not get the mil grade parts and substituted.  When the mil grade parts would arrive, they kept the baby papers for their records and them moved the parts into long term storage, preserving the evidence.   One of the workers realized just how fucked up this was and goes public.  Things didn't go well for the employee. 

https://www.behnwyetzner.com/whistleblower-compensation-awards/northrop-government-contractor-fraud/

The org I worked for had a production system which was entirely paper and envelope based when I started. This was because at the time none of the staff in the company could use a computer. Of course when I eventually got dragged into the software side of things and came along and introduced the internal manufacturing ERP system there was a bit of an uprising because people's lack of accountability was at risk. We quelled that uprising by shredding some of their paperwork and then requisitioning an audit. They were honest about what was left in the stores though, just not how much of it  . Ergo I am not surprised.

I have always wondered how much milspec kit is sitting there in people's garages rotting away in half built audio amplifiers 

[joeqsmith]

From what I remember, the early plastics did not seal well compared with the ceramics.  It seems like by the 90s, the plastics had improved to the point where they could compete.   I still have some very old military grade parts sitting in my stash as we would use them when we couldn't get some of the automotive grade.    Nothing I sneaked past the guards.   

A few pictures of my low cost resistive heaters.   

***
How do we cal out this kind of error?
***
added third photo

[joeqsmith]

It's hard to say if the plating is just poor.   It almost looks like there may have been an arc here.   Shown zoomed out and in.  Sorry for the poor quality pictures.

[xrunner]

Hard to say whether it's corrosion or arcing. Hard to imagine the rest of the pin not touching anywhere else so it would arc in that one place.

I'm striving of ways to use up more memory in the processor of my power meter. 

I think I'll make a bar graph that fits between the dBm and watt readouts, goes horizontally. The range would be -73 to +13 (86 dB) just to show a quick idea of where you are in the entire range. Got 128 pixels to work with.

Another will display a message if you go below the lowest range, instead of showing meaningless numbers. Which message is best (or provide your own) -

"Low range exceeded"

"No power detected"

"Lower limit reached"

"No input - boring!"

[joeqsmith]

last max value exceeded:  "new high score!!"
>1 MW: "god mode"
1.21 jigawatts: "doc brown"

Spent some time last night with an antenna attached to my SA looking at data in the CB band.  It seemed very active.  I then made the mistake of decoding the audio.  It was some sort of alien language that I couldn't decode.       The best part was that I think the closest station I heard was maybe 100 miles away.  Most were several states away.   Almost all were AM.   

This took me to the ham bands.  Most seemed to use SB.  While I could understand their conversations on religion, politics, antennas and tube finals,  I found the alien language of the CBers where I have no idea what someone from Georgia means about triple nickels far more entertaining.        Both hobbies seem very much alive and while the ham bands were boring, it was a nice contrast to what I heard the last time I listen to the HF bands.   Not one noise maker... 

[xrunner]

Glad you had some fun there Joe. 

Completed some assembly, still left is the button wiring. Played with some messages to alert user they were out of range on the low side. Then realized need to do same for high side (provided in that case the unit hasn't been roasted to a crisp).

Also coding up a bar graph meter to run across the screen between dBm and watt displays, to show where in the range you are.

It's all good at least it keeps me out of trouble elsewhere on the forum ... 

[joeqsmith]

Some of the VSWR meters provide an output to I assume, shutdown the radio.  You could maybe add something similar to cut the power if it gets to where the device would go non-linear or start to smoke...  Then again, without some sort of active clamp that somehow does not damage the radio, I can't see a use for that. 

It's all good at least it keeps me out of trouble elsewhere on the forum ... 

It does seem more than one long standing member has been taken out by posting comments to threads that don't seem to belong on this forum.   Odd when you consider Dave's last video of throwing the baby out with the bath water.    I've met my quota of religious and political posts and now waiting to be banned.    

Hard to say whether it's corrosion or arcing. Hard to imagine the rest of the pin not touching anywhere else so it would arc in that one place.

Agree that it would seem like poor quality of the plating/surface prep.   The mating Amphenol connector appears fine. 

Something like this may be a better choice if the ham/CBer wanted to spend a little more: 
https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE9112.pdf

[xrunner]

Some of the VSWR meters provide an output to I assume, shutdown the radio.  You could maybe add something similar to cut the power if it gets to where the device would go non-linear or start to smoke...  Then again, without some sort of active clamp that somehow does not damage the radio, I can't see a use for that. 

My IC-7300 will prevent transmissions if the VSWR is > 3.0. But that's protection going out. The power meter is the opposite of course, and it really can't stop anyone from connecting a 100W source and turning it on. Like the sensor used on the hp 437B and others - it has no means to protect itself from dumb mistakes - it will simply be ruined if too much power is applied. That's why there is a warning label on it ... and will be on my meter.

Something like this may be a better choice if the ham/CBer wanted to spend a little more: 
https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE9112.pdf

Yea that's what I'm talkin' about - an RF adapter with a spec sheet! 

Man there are some really, really cheap RF adapters for sale, especially at ham fests. Trouble is, the hams here are so cheap they will buy them before spending more on a better product. Oh well they'll regret it later.

[joeqsmith]

My IC-7300 will prevent transmissions if the VSWR is > 3.0. But that's protection going out. The power meter is the opposite of course, and it really can't stop anyone from connecting a 100W source and turning it on.

Interesting.  Can you for example, dead short the output with no damage?  If so I wonder if you could design a clamp that would save the meter.   The input is a kohm?  Seems like a very low capacitance TVS and a few resistors could save the IC.  For the load, if the radio can handle being shorted, maybe there's  a way.  Then again, maybe other radios can't.   We need to contact the CB amp builder and see what his 10kW amp can handle.     A small SMD resistor, or even replacing that whole PCB would be cheap.   Still, a fun problem to try and solve. 

[vk6zgo]

Calibration for hand tightening is probably a misunderstanding. You should only use a torque wrench on N's in theory. Absolutely no one owns one though 

As I pointed out, normal "N" connectors which I have seen in many years in Radio & TV Broadcast work, have no provision for the use of a torque wrench.
 
Everybody else I have ever seen use them hand tightens them.
The hex type definitely could be torqued, but I'm afraid that my detector goes off the clock about this.

The main, quite legitimate, reason for torque wrenches with SMAs is to prevent damage to their delicate threads & internals, but "N" connectors are positively "agricultural" in comparison!

I did microwave avionics stuff for military. We definitely used torque wrenches.

Well I tell a lie, we had them but they only got used on anything we'd get fired for not using them with.

Hams don't use them because they cost money. Broadcast doesn't use them because they cost time. Military uses them because they may cost lives.

I would imagine also, that apart from considerations of vibration loosening with military, or any other Avionics, the fact that aircraft are "pulled down" after a relatively short time, makes protecting the connectors from inadvertent damage during such work a motivating factor.

The use case for Broadcast & Civil Comms service is somewhat different, where a connection may be left undisturbed for decades, with the OB links I referred to being a notable exception.

The reliability of hand tightened "N" connectors in Broadcast & Civil Comms service has been proven over many decades, so extrapolating from Avionics procedure to Civil or ham use, is making an exception the rule.

[xrunner]

My IC-7300 will prevent transmissions if the VSWR is > 3.0. But that's protection going out. The power meter is the opposite of course, and it really can't stop anyone from connecting a 100W source and turning it on.

Interesting.  Can you for example, dead short the output with no damage?  If so I wonder if you could design a clamp that would save the meter.   The input is a kohm?  Seems like a very low capacitance TVS and a few resistors could save the IC.  For the load, if the radio can handle being shorted, maybe there's  a way.  Then again, maybe other radios can't.   We need to contact the CB amp builder and see what his 10kW amp can handle.     A small SMD resistor, or even replacing that whole PCB would be cheap.   Still, a fun problem to try and solve.

Will it protect itself from a shorted output when transmitting? Gee I don't know. I don't think I want to test that. Sounds a bit like the redneck thing "Here hold my beer and watch this!"

My Subaru is supposed to prevent you from crashing into the rear of a car in front - it has two cameras one on either side of the rear view mirror. I know for a fact the computer steps in and starts to "help" you because I've gotten too close to the car in front before and it starts stuttering the brakes to keep me from crashing into them. But would it actually stop if I tried an experiment and tried to ram a car in front of me? Hey Joe hold my beer ... on second thought nevermind.

 

A TVS, hmmm be interesting to play with. I don't know if that would work with respect to what we mean by a "transient" in the respect of the use of this device. Lets say a ham forgets what I told them, forgets the red label that will be on the back, and transmits 100 W CW into the thing - key down let's measure power!. We have seconds passing ... maybe a few seconds up to however long it takes them to realize "It ain't working and I smell that burning smell ...".

You know really I think only one ham is going to end up with this, if he wants it for my cost. As I said he well understands that this type of instrument can't take high power. He's been here and we've measured radios with my hp 437B and he sees the setup with a 40 dB atten. and how carefully I check things before pushing the PTT button.

Problem is he recognizes (thankfully I guess) he still has too much doubt in his innate "carefullness" which he has freely expressed to me. For example I got hold of an older analog Boonton power meter model 42A, which I haven't been able to fix yet. However the sensor that came with it is fine (model 41-4B). I got a really good deal on Ebay on a more modern Boonton digital meter model 4220, and it works really well with the Boonton power sensor. In fact, it reads down to -60 dBm accurately (I've tested it) which is even lower than my 437B can do.

The point is, I offered to sell him that system for my cost, but he has yet to take me up on it, and the reason is not money. He doesn't trust himself with it - because it has to have an external atten. for almost anything a ham would use it for.

[xrunner]

Ran into a little issue when connecting up some attenuators for high power testing from a mobile transceiver (5 to 50 W). When I designed the rear panel and checked the SO-239 connector there was enough of it sticking out so that a cable with a PL-259 would screw all the way on. At least several I checked were fine.

But when screwing on an adapter (PL-259 to N female) I found that it would not go on all the way. I also found several others with the same issue. I found another mounting nut that was a bit thinner than the one the pigtail assembly came with, but I need a little more. So I need to recess the area where the lock washer and nut is, I think I need about 1 mm is all.

If it's not one thing it's another. 

[vk6zgo]

My IC-7300 will prevent transmissions if the VSWR is > 3.0. But that's protection going out. The power meter is the opposite of course, and it really can't stop anyone from connecting a 100W source and turning it on.

Interesting.  Can you for example, dead short the output with no damage?  If so I wonder if you could design a clamp that would save the meter.   The input is a kohm?  Seems like a very low capacitance TVS and a few resistors could save the IC.  For the load, if the radio can handle being shorted, maybe there's  a way.  Then again, maybe other radios can't.   We need to contact the CB amp builder and see what his 10kW amp can handle.     A small SMD resistor, or even replacing that whole PCB would be cheap.   Still, a fun problem to try and solve.

Will it protect itself from a shorted output when transmitting? Gee I don't know. I don't think I want to test that. Sounds a bit like the redneck thing "Here hold my beer and watch this!"

My Subaru is supposed to prevent you from crashing into the rear of a car in front - it has two cameras one on either side of the rear view mirror. I know for a fact the computer steps in and starts to "help" you because I've gotten too close to the car in front before and it starts stuttering the brakes to keep me from crashing into them. But would it actually stop if I tried an experiment and tried to ram a car in front of me? Hey Joe hold my beer ... on second thought nevermind.

 

A TVS, hmmm be interesting to play with. I don't know if that would work with respect to what we mean by a "transient" in the respect of the use of this device. Lets say a ham forgets what I told them, forgets the red label that will be on the back, and transmits 100 W CW into the thing - key down let's measure power!. We have seconds passing ... maybe a few seconds up to however long it takes them to realize "It ain't working and I smell that burning smell ...".

You know really I think only one ham is going to end up with this, if he wants it for my cost. As I said he well understands that this type of instrument can't take high power. He's been here and we've measured radios with my hp 437B and he sees the setup with a 40 dB atten. and how carefully I check things before pushing the PTT button.

Problem is he recognizes (thankfully I guess) he still has too much doubt in his innate "carefullness" which he has freely expressed to me. For example I got hold of an older analog Boonton power meter model 42A, which I haven't been able to fix yet. However the sensor that came with it is fine (model 41-4B). I got a really good deal on Ebay on a more modern Boonton digital meter model 4220, and it works really well with the Boonton power sensor. In fact, it reads down to -60 dBm accurately (I've tested it) which is even lower than my 437B can do.

The point is, I offered to sell him that system for my cost, but he has yet to take me up on it, and the reason is not money. He doesn't trust himself with it - because it has to have an external atten. for almost anything a ham would use it for.

All of which, only adds weight to the argument for some hams using a Bird, which has a slug clearly marked with its maximum power rating.
They lose some acccuracy, for much improved ruggedness/idiot proofness!

The funny thing is, many hams, even if they would like to use something like your device with a massive high power attenuator can't afford the latter, (unless they find one surplus), or even a Bird, so end up with much less rugged "ham" type "SWR meters" the power reading of which is questionable.

I am one of these poor hams, & my main power meter has its own built in test load, with a tap on the load resistor to allow monitoring.
I got it free, but a while later the meter movement died, & was replaced with a "generic" one of the same fsd, so now the readings are sketchy to say the least.

Being purely resistive, I could calibrate it with a DC supply, but the top range is 150W, & I don't have a 86.6 v ,1.73A DC supply!
OK, maybe 50Hz AC, but that really demands a biggish isolation transformer, a Variac, & a TRMS meter.
Of these, the only one I have is the Variac!

At the moment, the closest thing to accurate for HF & reasonably high power levels, that I have is the "twin needle" meter on the MFJ ATU.
Putting the ATU on the "external dummy load" position, & using the above test load/power meter as that "dummy load", I can read power & SWR in "MFJ talk".(either average or peak)

For low power UHF/VHF I have a little "Welz" power meter, which, for some unknown reason, has a male "N" on the end of its testload/ sensor, so you have to use a joiner.
It goes to 15W, & has a "calibrate" knob for the various bands.
A very nice looking little unit, but its accuracy is unknown.

Really, hams don't need to know transmitter accuracy to any great degree of accuracy--a few dB either way doesn't matter.
The same goes for Reflected Power/Return loss/VSWR ---ham bands are wide, & tuning is a compromise, if you see a VSWR better than around 2.0:1 over most of the band, you can call it good.
Some really terrible antennas have nice flat VSWR across the whole of a band, & continue to catch suckers out!

[vk6zgo]

Some of the VSWR meters provide an output to I assume, shutdown the radio.  You could maybe add something similar to cut the power if it gets to where the device would go non-linear or start to smoke...  Then again, without some sort of active clamp that somehow does not damage the radio, I can't see a use for that.
 

I think those outputs are meant to be connected to the accessories input on some radios to immediately reduce power if a limit is passed.
We were using some Lunarlink 1kW 70cm amplifiers driven by IC910H transceivers in an ISM application (non radiating), & the amplifiers had a similar sensor which connected to the Transceiver's ALC control.

[xrunner]

All of which, only adds weight to the argument for some hams using a Bird, which has a slug clearly marked with its maximum power rating.

Oh it's clearly marked, I see. So no ham has ever ignored the markings on a Bird slug, or forgotten to read them? We both know what the answer to that is. Right, so it goes something like this "Well they shouldn't be messing with an expensive meter if they don't know what the markings mean! Uh-huh. If they pay attention to markings on the Bird element, if they are supposed to "understand" what it means, they can do the same for mine. Thanks for the laughs!

 

Attached is a pic of a Bird element. Do you see any warnings on it? Do you even see text like "Maximum power 100W" ? I sure don't. Mine is going to be clearly marked with a warning "Maximum Power" and the limit. On the back will be a red label clearly showing the Max power input. And I'm going to add a message right after it boots up for a few seconds informing the operator of the Max power input. So I win the contest for "clearly marked" hands down.

Your point is completely moot.

They lose some acccuracy (sic), for much improved ruggedness/idiot proofness!

Baloney. Drop a Bird meter from 3 feet over concrete, and do the same with the one I'm making. You can even pick the exact orientation for maximum damage and I know exactly how I want to drop a Bird meter with element installed. I'm betting mine will work fine except for scratches. I bet the Bird with it's mechanical meter movement and delicate element won't work fine.

The funny thing is, many hams, even if they would like to use something like your device with a massive high power attenuator can't afford the latter, (unless they find one surplus), or even a Bird, so end up with much less rugged "ham" type "SWR meters" the power reading of which is questionable.

Yea ... find one surplus then that's what I did for all of mine. 

They can't afford an attenuator but can afford a Bird meter and the expensive elements? Massive high power attenuator? 100 W is massive high power? That's what most hams use when transmitting, many less than that on VHF/UHF. Even if they had to buy a "high power attenuator" for 200 or more watts for my project, it wouldn't be frequency specific like the Bird slugs are. It would go from DC to 1 GHz, probably even up to 3 GHz which more than covers what they need. The Bird slugs are not broad-banded and have to be purchased for specific bands and power levels. My meter has a power range of 86 dB (the external attenuator just shifts the range). Give me a break.

I am one of these poor hams, & my main power meter has its own built in test load, with a tap on the load resistor to allow monitoring.

...

Really, hams don't need to know transmitter accuracy to any great degree of accuracy--a few dB either way doesn't matter.
The same goes for Reflected Power/Return loss/VSWR ---ham bands are wide, & tuning is a compromise, if you see a VSWR better than around 2.0:1 over most of the band, you can call it good.
Some really terrible antennas have nice flat VSWR across the whole of a band, & continue to catch suckers out!

Where did I ever - EVER - say the meter I'm making is for "monitoring" ham transmissions? 

It's not for monitoring it's for radio alignment and checking power per the service manual. Look at an example page from the service manual of a Yaesu FTM-100 VHF/UHF mobile transceiver I attached. You see where it states adjustments like -

14. Press the PTT switch to activate the transmitter, adjust the DIAL knob so that RF power meter reading is 50 W (+/- 0.5 W).

Do you realize that a Bird wattmeter cannot read power to that accuracy? You can't use a element higher than 50 W or your accuracy will be worse, you can't use one lower than 50 W for obvious reasons. You have to use a 50 W element. If you have a 50W element it's +/- 5% of full scale (which is +/- 2.5 W). And it gets worse if you are setting a power lower than full scale of the element installed, because the accuracy carries all the way down scale. For example your measuring 10 W with a 50 W element, the reading is 10 W +/- 2.5 W.

[joeqsmith]

You put some effort into that post.

Most of what I own for my electronics hobby is used.   That 100W JFW I show was from ebay and DOA plus needed a new connector.   I've purchased from both of these places and not had any problems with them: 

https://www.surplussales.com
https://www.rfparts.com/rfpartssurplus.html

They have a few larger ones in stock.   Looking on ebay now, there's some high $$$ junk available.  This one is advertised as used good:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184354423233?hash=item2aec6141c1:g:UIMAAOSwEXpfAvWT

I can imagine some ham buying it then attaching their ham cables up to it.  By the sounds of it, they may be no worse off!   

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

About adjusting the Yaesu output...That is just to get the knob reasonably in line with the markings. I donno what ,5 Watts would mean, You cannot see that on the knob.

I use a cheap old watt meter into a load for radio testing. I have used a Cantenna and now use a military load that weighs maybe 30 lbs. Good into GHZ.
I have attenuators that can handle 300 W plus and have a Agilent 8482A power sensor.
I also have an HP 3746 selective level measurement system by which I can measure the output of a transmitter into a 50 ohm load and with a 55 Hz bandwidth..
Big Deal.
I mostly use the cheapo SWR peak wattmeter for aligning radios. I like the analog meter too.
It is plenty good for my purposes. I align my cheapo analog meter with the other instruments but probably 10% is really closer than I need. And closer than any HF operator needs to measure his or her antenna system. By the way, how accurate can you be with a few PL connectors in line??? Everybody uses them, even manufacturers of expensive radios, even though there are much better connectors.
The best thing about the Bird Wattmeters is that the customer cannot get in there with a golden screwdriver and mess it up. OOPS, I should have said that it is unlikely they would do this...
The only Bird equipment I own (I don't own the ones sitting on my antenna) is a Termaline milliwattmeter, which is fun to use to see if stuff like my VNA is actually working. Actually I don't need this thing but it was only $5. I could not resist.
Nuff Said.

[xrunner]

You put some effort into that post.

I get carried away at times. 

Most of what I own for my electronics hobby is used. That 100W JFW I show was from ebay and DOA plus needed a new connector.   I've purchased from both of these places and not had any problems with them: 

https://www.surplussales.com
https://www.rfparts.com/rfpartssurplus.html

I'll check those places out. I got most of my used test gear from Ebay. I like the older hp and Agilent gear, but I also have new things too. I like to get the older stuff to restore and use.

Anyway, I need to get commenting on my project - everyone has an opinion on power meters and it probably won't get changed in this thread.

I made a small mod to the rear panel design so the lock washer is recessed, and now the adapters will screw on completely. I finished the wiring and now the case covers can be completely installed so the circuit is shielded.

The only thing the case needs are labels and feet. I want to re-check the cal constants now, and then use one of my VHF/UHF mobile radios (a Yaesu FTM-100D) to measure higher power levels up to 50 W which is the max power that the radio can output. I can get up to 100W from an IC-7300 for HF and 6m.

I will compare the measurements from this project meter to the same measurements I will make of the radio, using an hp 437B.

[joeqsmith]

...
The best thing about the Bird Wattmeters is that the customer cannot get in there with a golden screwdriver and mess it up. OOPS, I should have said that it is unlikely they would do this...

I've posted a few videos of hams "repairing" them using their golden screwdrivers and banging them on their golden tables. 

Hams refer to VNAs as AAs as that's their true purpose.   

Nuff Said.

[El Rubio]

Nuff Said.

Nuff said? I doubt that. You guys have 18 pages of disparaging hams. You prop up a straw man argument that all hams are idiots because you have been exposed to the worst. Most hams don’t look at Bird meters as the gold standard like you think, but you keep going back to the dead horse.
I’ve met hams like you guys describe, but they are few and far between around here. I recall the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Local hams setup stations at area hospitals & EOC offices. These guys did this when they may have had damage to their own property. An area north of New Orleans was totally isolated. The hospital had a critical patient that need to be brought to a functioning hospital. The local hams were able to relay the messages from that hospital to Air National Guard, which was able to fly in and evac that patient, probably saving their life.
 I know one ham that rode the storm out at the hospital where his wife was a nurse. They got trapped by flood waters and the hospital was isolated for several days. He was able to relay msgs for employees to their families and assist with patient evac.
Many of these guys were no- code license holders and not engineers, but they came through when called upon in the worst of situations.
 Lives were saved by the actions of these hams. I post this because I see hams as not the bumbling fools that you guys have referenced for 18 pages.

[bd139]

Nah. I got to a lot of hamfests. I spend a lot of time with the average ham. The people you speak of are not average hams.

The average ham during Hurricane Katrina was sitting there with a massive disaster erection on QRZ banging on about EMR and and how ham radio is going to save society and reminding everyone of how they once helped someone on 2m. At the same time he was sitting there knee deep in bud bottles and ash without enough physical fitness to get his radio to the car. Roll on a few years and everyone got disaster erections after these fuckers wrote article after articles full of disaster wank in every ham radio publication out there.

Now in the UK, thanks to that crap, we had a resurgence in RAYNET who are our local EMR lot. What do they do? Well not a lot other than dress up like policemen and mountain rescue morons and do talk ins at hamfests and wait for armageddon to occur. They have absolutely no idea how to coordinate anything at all and literally cause chaos and mayhem. The actual real emergency services hate the living shit out of them because they get in the way, have no idea about coordinated disaster management or anything.

Sometimes they do something useful like handing out water bottles but you don't need a ham license for that. And it's always their wives doing that bit because, you know, the men have serious business to do like sitting in a caravan somewhere drinking tea, smoking and waiting for armageddon to occur on a Sunday afternoon in rural Berkshire.



But usually it's:



There's a seriously wrong amount of Y chromosomes there.

You're not wrong but you got the average ham wrong and they are 100% fair game.

[Grandchuck]

Here is a more balanced viewpoint:  https://spectrum.ieee.org/ham-radio

[bd139]

Oh I read that ages ago.

If you want more people in ham radio, hide the hams in a cupboard somewhere. They put me off getting my license for about 25 years 

[Grandchuck]

Yes, some people can be off-putting.

[vk6zgo]

Oh I read that ages ago.

If you want more people in ham radio, hide the hams in a cupboard somewhere. They put me off getting my license for about 25 years 

Most hams are "in a cupboard somewhere"---the ones you see are outliers.

Many spend their time at home, messing with test equipment, & making stuff, still others are less fortunate in available time, & just manage to wedge a bit of "home brewing" & operating in between all the other things being a normal working person demands.

It is also common for people who are already working in Communications, Broadcasting, or other electronics based occupations to become hams.
In that case, they have probably been persuaded by spending a lot of time working with other people who are sensible & normal, with being a ham just a small part of their life.

The "whackers" are a relatively new phenomenon, mainly having arisen from amongst the surprisingly large CB community in the USA.
When they become hams, they carry the "whacker" mentality with them.
Add to them the "prepper" groups & those "true hams" who just get "carried away", & it is a pretty big number, but still a minority.

We have had some seriously strange people posting on this forum over the years, if it comes to that.
Us weirdos that "collect old test gear" & rabbit on about abstruse techical subjects, in between whinging about their physical ailments are living in a pretty big glass house.

In passing, to those of us in Oz, the still sizeable following of CB in the USA is a source of bemusement-----it's as if Brontosaurus herds still roamed across Iowa!