Author Topic: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?  (Read 672 times)

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Offline Lord of nothing

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"Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« on: October 05, 2019, 03:23:42 pm »
Hi
We have here in Austria theoretically a Band for Transmission in Austria from one end the Country to the other. Sure I have to ask the Authorities first for Licence and other legal stuff. So its just a proof of concept.
The is 9.775khz - 9.900khz, 11.650khz - 11.700khz, 11.975khz - 12.050khz
FSB-RR035 - Max. ERP 24 dBW
5.147  On condition that harmful interference is not caused to the broadcasting service, frequencies in the bands 9 775 - 9 900 kHz, 11 650 - 11 700 kHz and 11 975 - 12 050 kHz may be used by stations in the fixed service communicating only within the boundary of the country in which they are located, each station using a total radiated power not exceeding 24 dBW.
Is there a Radio who support that Freq Range?
Thanks
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Offline blueskull

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2019, 03:47:06 pm »
Is there a Radio who support that Freq Range?

10MHz=30m, with a 1/4 lambda dipole antenna, that's 15m in length, plus elevation.
Do you have such an antenna and land?
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2019, 03:54:55 pm »
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Do you have such an antenna and land?
We have a House and I will install an Antenna Mast next to the House if its in some € range I could afford.  >:D
Can someone translate ERP 24 dBW in something I could know?  :-//
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Offline blueskull

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2019, 04:06:18 pm »
Can someone translate ERP 24 dBW in something I could know?  :-//

Don't quote on me, but my understanding is ERP is peak power radiated by an ideal dipole antenna at the center of its main lobe.

24dBW is 250W, that part was easy.

Essentially, it means you can drive 250W into an ideal dipole antenna, not counting cable loss.

If you drive a different antenna, make sure the peak output at center of main lobe is below 400W (ideal dipole antenna has 2.15dBi gain, or 1.64x).

For instance, if you have an antenna with 10dBi gain, then you should not drive it with more than 40W of electric power, ignoring cable loss.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2019, 04:11:39 pm »
 :scared: nice a Amateur Hobbyist could just use 100W max. (on Amateur Radio Freq).
How to make sure the Signal is only inside the Country?  :-//
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Offline blueskull

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2019, 04:34:48 pm »
How to make sure the Signal is only inside the Country?  :-//

That's an interesting question. Maybe there is a leakage power limit somewhere? Because if they really say absolutely zero power leaked to another country, that would be plain stupidity.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2019, 05:03:43 pm »
I am sure the "inside country rule" has nothing to do with power.  It just means you can't talk to someone outside the country.  Determined by station ID or just asking.  And generally enforced by honor system.  But a RDF team could identify violations and in such situations usually come down hard on violators.  The instructive example for those tempted to cheat.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2019, 05:10:47 pm »
Well when I transmitt something how should the know who also receive it?
I never heard or saw some transmissions there beside of the normal AM Radio.
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Online borjam

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2019, 05:35:29 pm »
Hi
We have here in Austria theoretically a Band for Transmission in Austria from one end the Country to the other. Sure I have to ask the Authorities first for Licence and other legal stuff. So its just a proof of concept.

License application, a proper technical project to justify it... forget it ;)
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2019, 06:05:49 pm »
Do you ever try it here?
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2019, 03:12:27 am »
Well when I transmitt something how should the know who also receive it?
I never heard or saw some transmissions there beside of the normal AM Radio.

It says communicate with, not broadcast to.  So you talk.  Someone talks back to you.  Repeat as necessary.  Someone smart enough to operate a radio should be able to figure out a way in those early messages whether the person on the other end meets the requirement.  Deep stuff like asking "Where are you transmitting from?"  "Why are you speaking Swahili?"  If they are doing a good job of faking the problem is theirs, you did due diligence.
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2019, 05:05:46 am »
Hi
We have here in Austria theoretically a Band for Transmission in Austria from one end the Country to the other. Sure I have to ask the Authorities first for Licence and other legal stuff. So its just a proof of concept.
The is 9.775khz - 9.900khz, 11.650khz - 11.700khz, 11.975khz - 12.050khz
FSB-RR035 - Max. ERP 24 dBW
5.147  On condition that harmful interference is not caused to the broadcasting service, frequencies in the bands 9 775 - 9 900 kHz, 11 650 - 11 700 kHz and 11 975 - 12 050 kHz may be used by stations in the fixed service communicating only within the boundary of the country in which they are located, each station using a total radiated power not exceeding 24 dBW.
Is there a Radio who support that Freq Range?
Thanks

I think you will find that it is for HF Comms between fixed points, maybe interlinked with the normal telephone service.
The reason they say "harmful interference is not caused to the broadcasting service" is that those frequencies are either within, or bordering upon the Shortwave Broadcast frequency allocations.

It is not a way for individuals to avoid the requirements for an Amateur Radio Licence, or the restrictions of CB radio.

You really need to follow it up further with your licencing authority, but I wouldn't get my hopes up!
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2019, 09:24:38 am »
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So you talk.  Someone talks back to you.  Repeat as necessary.
Do you know there are many Digital Transmission Techniques who require 0 Voice Service.
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2019, 04:42:11 pm »
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So you talk.  Someone talks back to you.  Repeat as necessary.
Do you know there are many Digital Transmission Techniques who require 0 Voice Service.

Do.you know that question - response sequences are possible through digital media.  There is even a name for it.Handshaking.  Willful ignorance will be a stunningly bad defense when your local authorities decide to enforce their reasonably clear regulations.
 

Online borjam

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2019, 06:24:29 pm »
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So you talk.  Someone talks back to you.  Repeat as necessary.
Do you know there are many Digital Transmission Techniques who require 0 Voice Service.
I don't get why you don't apply for an amateur radio license. It grants powers beyond those of any other radio spectrum user. You can use self built equipment (any other users must use approved equipment), frequency bands across the full spectrum, and a lot of freedom.

The route you are considering would be much more expensive. And I doubt the license would be granted in the first place. As far as I know it's not easy.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2019, 12:00:11 am »
Quote
I don't get why you don't apply for an amateur radio license.
Because I cant Communicate with other People.
Quote
frequency bands across the full spectrum, and a lot of freedom.
Nope the are limited and very tide limitation whats permit to do. I even are not allowed to send encrypt Traffic.
Quote
The route you are considering would be much more expensive.
Depend what the charge for.
Quote
And I doubt the license would be granted in the first place.
Why not?
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Offline blueskull

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2019, 12:35:44 am »
I even are not allowed to send encrypt Traffic.

In most countries it is illegal*. Ham band is public, and it is a shared resource.
If you need encryption, either use ISM under the power limit, charter a band just for you, or subscribe to a cellular or satellite service.

*: Encoding is legal, but the encoding mechanism and if any, encryption key, must be publicly available.
 

Offline mansaxel

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Re: "Cheap" Commercial SW Radio?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2019, 08:20:58 pm »
I even are not allowed to send encrypt Traffic.

In most countries it is illegal*. Ham band is public, and it is a shared resource.
If you need encryption, either use ISM under the power limit, charter a band just for you, or subscribe to a cellular or satellite service.

*: Encoding is legal, but the encoding mechanism and if any, encryption key, must be publicly available.

In Sweden, encryption, even with key withheld from the public, is allowed in amateur traffic; but it must be possible to identify the transmitting and receiving station by callsign. Since most other countries explicitly disallow it, traffic must stay domestic.


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