Is RF test engineering nearly as interesting as RF design?

[Pkoff123]

I have been desgining RF front end boards and so far I've loved it but the job market is bad right now and I have to settle for a test engineer postion i just got offered. Im really depressed about it. It seems like an extremely boring job that requires little to know physics and mathematics knowledge. Can someone give it to me straight? How boring is it? I've spoken with a few test engineers back in the day and they did not like their jobs.. It doesnt seem nearly as important or proactive or interesting as design engineering..

[coppercone2]

well you might actually have a budget instead of the joke they call the BOM

If you want to make improvements (i.e. learn the lab metrics and 'follow' AND help guide management), it can be very interesting.
Usually there is two positions, the lab person and the documents person, because for a serious place the documents are oppressive and there is no choice but to specialize to a degree. There are grounded documents related to procedure, construction, etc (these everyone pretty much gets into) and high level documents related to interfacing with the company (which is what the specialists tend to focus on, i.e. accreditation requirements etc), usually along with data base work. This is in terms of a pie chart, usually everyone does a bit of everything unless everyone is agreed and happy (rare).

 Designing a practical test method can be more thought provoking then sorting digikey. I think typically there is a much bigger mechanical component because you physically have to work the stuff, instead of working with theoretical tiles that materialize for you.


I think its alot more sane. I don't think I would cry about it because design is where they give you totally unreasonable demands and inhuman timelines and there is nothing to protect you. Test has a definition of 'quality' that you can say will not be met if you are pushed. I thought design was pretty lawless with alot of cowboys and shammers.


But, if its related to an assembly line, it can get equally ugly, if you don't argue for the correct sample size. They will fucking try to bury you, especially new guys. But this is only a problem if your boss gets defeated.

With many advanced modules that people are buying now that do critical things (advanced power supplies, PFC, drivers, controllers)... it ends up BEING engineering.

Remember its called TEST EQUIPMENT. The designers don't have time to use that shit properly IMO, like their even gonna warm something up and harness the full capabilities if they stay within their job description and timelines lol, they hack out precision by going 'reference only'. Test is the rare place that someones cares about the last digit! and 'rogorge' style adapters are usually prosecuted

[tggzzz]

Is the specific job designing and creating tests, or running tests?

Could it be used as a way of learning about other aspects of a business?

[Pkoff123]

Creating automated tests..

[Marsupilami]

I've done both. There are good workplaces and there are bad workplaces, and that distinction matters more than what is your active role.
In my opinion the magic word for finding beauty in test engineering is "metrology". If that's not enough physics and math for you then I don't know what is. Have you tried identifying statistical distributions before?
In fact if I could I would make it mandatory for designers to take on a test engineering role for experience. So even if you don't stick around and want to go do design long term this might be a good chance to pick up a thing or two that you wouldn't otherwise.
The bad reputation of the role might come from the fact that some companies employ test engineers for technicians or lower. If you go to a reasonable company that fully understands the financial impact of test then you'll have no difficulty taking it to PhD levels.

Good luck!

[Marsupilami]

Oh, and one more thing. If you're committed, honing some of your design skills on the weekends is still easier imho than gathering test engineering experience.

[Pkoff123]

Sorting digikey is the most basic part of design. There is so much more that goes into it. Impedance matching, gilter design, EM simulation, component spacing, component selection, variouse fun design techniques.. I think this position will be creating automated tests in code. There's also firmware(which most pcb designers aslo do) and dsp(if you are good enough to do that also).

I used the spec analyzer and vna daily when inwas a design engineer. I tested the products i desing3d by hand(as opposed to writing scripts).

I hope im wrong but testing just seems witting scripts to call drivers from the instruments. "Turn this on, record, compare data on give it a pass fail". Thats it. Instead of desining and cool stripline filters or antenna my whole life will consist of syaing "yup, the noise is lower than -30db". I really hope im wrong. When promotion time will come i will ask to let me do design work instead of a raise or something..

[Pkoff123]

This makes me feel better, I will definetly ask to transfer to design after a year. Im more of an algebraic geometry and calculus guy than a statistics guy. Statistics never clicked with me but I never put in a lot of effort to learn them. Just as important as regular applied math's I guess. This company is not a good work place according to people who worked there though lol. I dont really care about a toxic workplace. My manager can be my best freinds and I will still be u happy cuz no design work and the cherry on top is the ceo is again wfh even though my job will mostly consist of logging into virtual machines in another state... im just gonna put my head down and start my masters I guess..

[tszaboo]

I've spoken with a few test engineers back in the day and they did not like their jobs.. It doesnt seem nearly as important or proactive or interesting as design engineering..

If I would be out of a job, and a test engineer's job would be offered to me, I would take it as a temporary measure (pun intended). You will always learn new things, you can do your passion as your hobby. It's always easier to get a new job when you already have one, if you are unemployed for a long time that's a bad sign in your CV.

[Pkoff123]

I have been unemployed due to illness so ye I need to take this. At the very least I guess I can study the circuits and layouts and then just lie in my resume I was doing design work or soemthing..

[coppice]

Creating automated tests..

Writing ATE programs is widely considered tedious, yet a few people seem to love it. If you have no other immediate options, give it a go.

[coppercone2]

Sorting digikey is the most basic part of design. There is so much more that goes into it. Impedance matching, gilter design, EM simulation, component spacing, component selection, variouse fun design techniques.. I think this position will be creating automated tests in code. There's also firmware(which most pcb designers aslo do) and dsp(if you are good enough to do that also).

I used the spec analyzer and vna daily when inwas a design engineer. I tested the products i desing3d by hand(as opposed to writing scripts).

I hope im wrong but testing just seems witting scripts to call drivers from the instruments. "Turn this on, record, compare data on give it a pass fail". Thats it. Instead of desining and cool stripline filters or antenna my whole life will consist of syaing "yup, the noise is lower than -30db". I really hope im wrong. When promotion time will come i will ask to let me do design work instead of a raise or something..

that sounds like a shitty place that does zero improvement work

[tggzzz]

I have been unemployed due to illness so ye I need to take this. At the very least I guess I can study the circuits and layouts and then just lie in my resume I was doing design work or soemthing..

I would hope and expect that any half-way decent interview process would find out what you had and hadn't been doing at you previous jobs - and why.

Having multiple skills and being flexible always looks good. Honesty is good.

Discovering a "mismatch" between claims and reality always looks bad. That reeks of a "bullshitter", and if a company needs a bullshitter who regurgitates plausible word salad then they would be better off getting an LLM 

Cover letter purpose: get person to read your CV.
CV purpose: get them to give you an interview.
CV section N: what tasks and skills you have demonstrated in your previous jobs, preferably including concrete benefits to the company.
CV section N+1: companies plus dates, not what you did at each company

I've seen statements to the effect that a high proportion of the jobs advertised are "ghost jobs", i.e. non-existent. Recruitment agencies are notorious for that, since more CVs = more people to throw at employers. Companies might do it to see what the going rate is, to encourage existing employees to believe they can be replaced, to "look busy", etc.

[JohnG]

My first job offer as a newly minted undergrad was for a test engineering position at an IC design company. I thought it sounded boring. I took a different offer as an RF PA designer, which was indeed fun.

Years later I was back in grad school, and low and behold, it turns out one of my classmates was the person who took the test engineering job that I turned down. It was far more interesting than I had thought, and had still ended up leading the person eventually to a design engineering job, for which his test development experience proved very valuable.

It doesn't always go this way, of course, but having had to work with test engineers myself to develop working and cost-effective tests has informed my design engineering and I have probably saved my employers a lot of money as a result. It has also made me think about my own bench testing and how to make my own life easier. I really dislike writing code and scripts, but I hate copy/pasting data far more. Getting enough practice with scripts has meant that I can now automate some of my testing pretty easily. I can handle a good bit of data, run a lot of tests that I would never bother with before, etc. Good experience for me, anyways.

YMMV, as always.

Cheers,
John

[Tation]

IMHO any job that allows you to look for perfection is enjoyable. Jobs where you create something usually fall in such category. "Creating automated tests"? Sure!

I enjoyed a lot, years ago, when working in verification and certification of digital circuits designed by others, that involved creating automated tests. Even writing documentation, a task always present in my work life, is fun, provided that you "look for perfection".

Here "perfection" is not the absolute, unreachable, abstract concept, but close enough to the optimum, given the time/money constraints.