Author Topic: NanoVNA Custom Software  (Read 458089 times)

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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #950 on: April 19, 2021, 01:48:10 am »
The manual and both programs have been updated.   You will need to manually set the number of data points and save your defaults for it to stick. 
 
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Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #951 on: April 19, 2021, 01:49:20 pm »
Morning Mr. Smith,
In v1.11 I adjusted the points box to 401 (highlighting and inputting from the keyboard) and saved to defaults. Restarting shows 401, but as soon as I link, it jumps back to 101. Again putting 401 in the box while linked, as soon as I click on a parameter it again jumps back to 101.
I tried changing the numbers with the up/down icons and it made no difference.
I tried calibrating and saving, no joy.
101 points works exactly as advertised.

Am I missing something other than grey matter?

Peter
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 01:58:30 pm by purpose »
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #952 on: April 19, 2021, 05:20:55 pm »
Remember how I posted about hard coding the number of data points to 101?  Well, I never removed that initialization.    Of course, this causes no problems with the old firmware as I am expecting it to be 101.    :-DD   Testing the software will continue to be a problem as people diverge from the original hardware / firmware.   

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #953 on: April 19, 2021, 05:48:31 pm »
Remember how I posted about hard coding the number of data points to 101?
No. I must have been drunk.

Well, I never removed that initialization.
V1.08 would beg to differ.

Of course, this causes no problems with the old firmware as I am expecting it to be 101.
Of course.

Testing the software will continue to be a problem as people diverge from the original hardware / firmware.
I can live with 101. Less data to crunch, but I know it's there if I need it.

Peter
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #954 on: April 19, 2021, 06:52:48 pm »
Remember how I posted about hard coding the number of data points to 101?
No. I must have been drunk.

Well, I never removed that initialization.
V1.08 would beg to differ.

Of course, this causes no problems with the old firmware as I am expecting it to be 101.
Of course.

Testing the software will continue to be a problem as people diverge from the original hardware / firmware.
I can live with 101. Less data to crunch, but I know it's there if I need it.

Peter

Life didn't start or end at software v1.08.  I thought I had made it clear in this post the steps I had taken AFTER 1.08 to improve the speed but you didn't seem to follow. 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3552000/#msg3552000

Quote
Simple solution, ditch that frequency command.  The Nano has always used 101 data points, so lock it down and calculate the tables like how the V2+ works.

In other words, 1.09 hard codes the initialization.  I thought it would be understood that this hard coded initialization is what my comment referred to.  Version 1.11 allows the user to change the points setting but the software would still initial it to 101 data points.  Again, because it may not be clear, version 1.11 is after 1.08.  Version 1.12, which is also after 1.08, removes this initialization.    Because you seemed to miss it, prior to 1.09 which includes 1.08, the software would initialize the number of point by sending the frequency command.  This command is no longer in use.   

If the firmware being used with software 1.09-1.11 has anything other than 101 data points, it's going to cause a problem.
 


Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #955 on: April 19, 2021, 08:21:02 pm »
I thought I had made it clear in this post the steps I had taken AFTER 1.08 to improve the speed but you didn't seem to follow.

I'm just miffed that you would take my precious points away. The naughty step is a lonely place.

because it may not be clear, version 1.11 is after 1.08

I'm not buying that. Surely some mistake on your part. Hic.

Version 1.12, which is also after 1.08

Now you're just being ridiculous and it's mean of you to confuse someone with dyscalculea.

Sniff
 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #956 on: April 19, 2021, 08:35:33 pm »
Well would you believe it. The one that comes after 1.11, you know the one, now works.

Mr. Smith... may you live for a thousand years.

Cheers
Peter

Spoke a little prematurely.

101 points behaves correctly, but 401 throws a minor wobbly.
Zoom goes though its motions with angular waveforms and shifts right at the 500Hz step.
Hitting peak center does not set it back.

What comes after 12?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 09:14:04 pm by purpose »
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #957 on: April 19, 2021, 11:57:20 pm »
Sadly, once again I am given little data.  Maybe it's to the right 100Hz.  Maybe 10Hz.  Maybe 1.  Wit the technology available to us today where we can easily do screen captures,  its still a problem.   

Oh well, I don't have the hardware to test it anyway and with firmware that places random errors in the data sets, it may not be useful to even try and sort it out.  Your call.  You want me to look at it, provide some actual data. 

Don't tell me the car pulls to the right.  Show me a picture so I can see the front wheel is missing....   

Also, it would have been helpful to know if you could replicate the problem with the old hardware and the version of firmware I tested with.

*****************
Also, it would have been helpful to know if it 1.08 zooms correctly when using the new 401 data point Nano.   

*****************
Also, you may want to make sure that it's not some sort of resolution problem with your new firmware/hardware.    You know the original firmware  firmware was 101 data points.  You know the software zooms into a span of 500Hz.   So you can calculate the step size.   You can also calculate the step size for your new configuration.   You could then test the step size to see if its acceptable.   

*****************
Quote
101 points behaves correctly, but 401 throws a minor wobbly.

I am not even sure what this comment means.   Are you running the new configuration with the 401 points but then setting the software to 101 and suggesting that behaves correctly?  Or are you running the original hardware with the firmware I tested with and that behaves correctly?   
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 02:42:17 am by joeqsmith »
 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #958 on: April 20, 2021, 12:31:54 pm »
Good Morning Mr. Smith,

Sadly, once again I am given little data.
You scientists and your bloody data.

Here we go then.
Kindly assume that these experiments are all carried out by a monkey under duress.
All will be with your software version 1.12 and are with the standard procedure for crystal measurement, up to and including zooming the waveform.
Start up defaults 10M centre, 2M span, 1M start-300M stop.

The first slide please, Mrs. Coldheart.

Old hardware with eddy 0.8.0 firmware.
No problems whatsoever, Exactly as I expect it to perform.


Old hardware with radiolistener's 0.4.4 firmware.
First zoom attempt missed the mark by 500k and did not recover.
Yes the crystal was plugged in and no I wasn't distracted by something shiny.


Second zoom attempt grabbed it nicely.


Now on to the fun stuff.
New H4 hardware with Dislord's 1.0.53 firmware, with 51-101-201-301-401 data point choices.

101 data points set.
First attempt was much the same as the first with radiolistener's. I forgot to take a screenshot (because I was distracted by something shiny) and the second attempt behaved as would be expected.


401 data points set.
The waveform 'throwing a wobbly'. It's not consistent, but disforms half a dozen times throughout the zoom process.


This is where we end up after it kicks to the right at the 500Hz step.
Cursor centre set. Cur B-Cur A shows -29.


Also, it would have been helpful to know if it 1.08 zooms correctly when using the new 401 data point Nano.
Indeed it does.

Also, you may want to make sure that it's not some sort of resolution problem with your new firmware/hardware.    You know the original firmware  firmware was 101 data points.  You know the software zooms into a span of 500Hz.   So you can calculate the step size.   You can also calculate the step size for your new configuration.   You could then test the step size to see if its acceptable.
I'm sorry, but anything containing the word 'calculate' frightens the life out of me. Simple arithmetic is within my ability, but I'm still in the dark. Could you rephrase your last paragraph for a child.

Are you running the new configuration with the 401 points but then setting the software to 101
No. I set the vna to whatever points I'm using, then change the software to match before linking.
1.08 would detect whatever the vna was set to and change automatically.

Or are you running the original hardware with the firmware I tested with and that behaves correctly?
I refer you to my previous answers.

Peter


 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #959 on: April 20, 2021, 01:57:33 pm »
Just to add to the last screenshot.
Pressing peak centre has no effect at pulling the waveform back.
On this test CurB-CurA is showing -50.

 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #960 on: April 20, 2021, 05:22:25 pm »
Quote
Old hardware with radiolistener's 0.4.4 firmware.
First zoom attempt missed the mark by 500k and did not recover.

I've ran into this as well, even with the newer firmware.   I suspect its a result of my trying to speed the zoom process up.   

Quote
401 data points set.
The waveform 'throwing a wobbly'. It's not consistent, but disforms half a dozen times throughout the zoom process.

If you manually zoom in using the software (setting the span and center), do you get the same effect?  Can you replicate it without the PC attached? (I am guessing you could)

Quote
No. I set the vna to whatever points I'm using, then change the software to match before linking.
1.08 would detect whatever the vna was set to and change automatically.

There's a new bit of info I did not have before.  I had assumed it was fixed at 401.  Of course I've covered the difference of how 1.08 worked compared with the newer versions and the reasons for the change and won't repeat it a third time.  Yes, it's different.  If your too old for a trophy, would you like a gold star? 

Quote
Also, it would have been helpful to know if it 1.08 zooms correctly when using the new 401 data point Nano.   
Sadly I am left to guess if this actually zooms in correctly or not.   All I know from your previous statement is that it picks up the number of points automatically.       

The fact the software can't tell your Nano to move the peak to the center, seems to point to something with the firmware.  Again, you should be able replicate this without the PC. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 05:25:22 pm by joeqsmith »
 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #961 on: April 20, 2021, 06:03:52 pm »
If you manually zoom in using the software (setting the span and center), do you get the same effect?
Exactly the same. Warped waveform shapes and stuck 50Hz right. Unable to centre.


Can you replicate it without the PC attached? (I am guessing you could)
I can't.
If I turn off the software and re start the vna, then use the span to zoom in increments, the final 500Hz step is solid.

If you're too old for a trophy, would you like a gold star? 
Yes please, Sir.
 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #962 on: April 20, 2021, 06:39:36 pm »
Sadly I am left to guess if 1.08 actually zooms in correctly or not.
Answered, but yes it does.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #963 on: April 20, 2021, 06:50:24 pm »
If you manually zoom in using the software (setting the span and center), do you get the same effect?
Exactly the same. Warped waveform shapes and stuck 50Hz right. Unable to centre.

Can you replicate it without the PC attached? (I am guessing you could)
I can't.
If I turn off the software and re start the vna, then use the span to zoom in increments, the final 500Hz step is solid.

If you're too old for a trophy, would you like a gold star? 
Yes please, Sir.

You mention the centering problem and you read that I asked you to try and replicate it without the PC.   I am not sure if you actually started the Nano with no PC, set the span to 500Hz, set the center for 9.9974MHz as your graph shows, saw the same peak location, and assuming you did, entered a center of 9.997446MHz and saw the peak center.  Maybe it moved.  Maybe it didn't.  Maybe you didn't try it.  I don't have a crystal ball.  If you want a gold star, you're going to have to step up your game.   Don't try and out guess what I am asking by entering  9.9974 and thinking that is good enough.   You need to use the same settings that the software is using.   

Jot down the center and spans where you have noted the odd shapes and enter them in manually as well.   


Sadly I am left to guess if 1.08 actually zooms in correctly or not.
Answered, but yes it does.

So we are clear, 1.08 will zoom in correctly with 401 data points?   Or are you saying that 1.08 will zoom correctly with the old firmware and 101 data points?   

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #964 on: April 20, 2021, 07:54:02 pm »
You mention the centering problem and you read that I asked you to try and replicate it without the PC.
And because you asked so nicely, I did just that.

I am not sure if you actually started the Nano with no PC
I did and also shut down the nano and restarted.

set the span to 500Hz, set the center for 9.9974MHz as your graph shows, saw the same peak location, and assuming you did, entered a center of 9.997446MHz and saw the peak center.
(nano only)As the software was off and I wasn't looking at any pictures, I would have to put on a peak marker and centre to that frequency.

If you want a gold star, you're going to have to step up your game.
I'm thinking of settling for the bronze.

You need to use the same settings that the software is using.
400k-60k-16k-3.2k-640-500. Done.

Jot down the center and spans where you have noted the odd shapes and enter them in manually as well.
Software 1.12
400k-hit peak centre, no worries
60k-hit peak centre, no worries
16k-waveform deformation-hit peak centre fine
3.2k-hit peak centre-not moving, but could be because it really is centered
640- mild deformation, hit peak centre jumped 50Hz left of centre
500-stays at 50Hz left of centre-hit peak centre jumped to 30Hz right of centre

I need a Whisky... Oh look, there's a bottle of Grant's.






« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 08:06:30 pm by purpose »
 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #965 on: April 20, 2021, 08:21:31 pm »

So we are clear, 1.08 will zoom in correctly with 401 data points?

YES

Or are you saying that 1.08 will zoom correctly with the old firmware and 101 data points?   

Probably also yes.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #966 on: April 20, 2021, 09:35:35 pm »
Quote
set the span to 500Hz, set the center for 9.9974MHz as your graph shows, saw the same peak location, and assuming you did, entered a center of 9.997446MHz and saw the peak center.
(nano only)As the software was off and I wasn't looking at any pictures, I would have to put on a peak marker and centre to that frequency.

You can't type in the center frequency from the menu?   


Quote
Jot down the center and spans where you have noted the odd shapes and enter them in manually as well.
Software 1.12
400k-hit peak centre, no worries
60k-hit peak centre, no worries
16k-waveform deformation-hit peak centre fine
3.2k-hit peak centre-not moving, but could be because it really is centered
640- mild deformation, hit peak centre jumped 50Hz left of centre
500-stays at 50Hz left of centre-hit peak centre jumped to 30Hz right of centre

So you're plugging these numbers in without the PC using just the Nano and seeing deformation?   Or are you using my software to manually enter them? 
 
The fact it seems to work with 1.08 and how you are seeing these odd spaced jumps when zooming,  I am leaning towards some sort of rounding problem with the Nano's firmware.   Again, 1.08 is asking for the table and working from that rather than telling the Nano what to do.   If there is a problem with the resolution 1.08 would mask it.   

Sort out how to enter the set points from the menu, then maybe you can help answer this.   

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #967 on: April 20, 2021, 09:55:26 pm »
You can't type in the center frequency from the menu?
I could, but just centered the marker frequency. I'm slow.

So you're plugging these numbers in without the PC using just the Nano and seeing deformation?
Two different tests
Just the nano (no pc) when manually inputting the frequencies, no deformation.
In software when manually inputting the frequencies, the odd deformation.

The fact it seems to work with 1.08 and how you are seeing these odd spaced jumps when zooming,  I am leaning towards some sort of rounding problem with the Nano's firmware.   Again, 1.08 is asking for the table and working from that rather than telling the Nano what to do.   If there is a problem with the resolution 1.08 would mask it. 
I don't know if this is of any help, but the frequency jumps while zooming are the same in 1.08 and 1.12.

Sort out how to enter the set points from the menu, then maybe you can help answer this.
Are you talking about setting centre frequency on the nano? Or set the data points in software?

I might be having a stroke.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #968 on: April 20, 2021, 10:55:50 pm »
Quote
" but the frequency jumps while zooming "

Are you referring to the center and span being the same between the two versions?  If so, that would make sense.   

Quote
Quote
Sort out how to enter the set points from the menu, then maybe you can help answer this.
Are you talking about setting centre frequency on the nano? Or set the data points in software?

Nothing to do with software.  I am interested in seeing what problems you run into when using the Nanos firmware.   

Quote
I might be having a stroke.
I'm not sure why.  You read the manual enough to provide some feedback on it.   

Quote
Those wanting to use this software with the original NanoVNA need to be aware that the poor quality of firmware and cloned hardware may cause a lot of wasted time.   You’re on your own. 

Quote
This software can be viewed as an engineering tool at best.  Its primary use was to extend the author's understanding of V2+.  It was never intended to be used as a general tool for radio hobbyist’s to tune their antennas.  The software is fairly buggy and not very robust.  Even under normal conditions, expect to run into several problems if attempting to use this software. It’s a very poor choice for the beginner. 

You made a choice to run unsupported hardware and firmware and then bring it up.  I made the choice not to ignore you.  And so, here we are...  Having some fun...  lol.


Quote
Quote
So you're plugging these numbers in without the PC using just the Nano and seeing deformation?
Two different tests
Just the nano (no pc) when manually inputting the frequencies, no deformation.
In software when manually inputting the frequencies, the odd deformation.
I wonder if the firmware will round when data is entered with the keypad but fails when you send it the command. 

Sadly, I think the only way to sort it out would be to try and replicate your setup.   You like playing with firmware.   Can you take that firmware and run it in old hardware?  Do you even have the old hardware to try it?    If that works, point me to where the hex or binary image can be found and I will try and load it into mine.   

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #969 on: April 20, 2021, 11:23:15 pm »
Are you referring to the center and span being the same between the two versions?  If so, that would make sense. 
I merely observed the frequency stops when zoomng. Those six frqs are the same between versions. So, yes.

Nothing to do with software.  I am interested in seeing what problems you run into when using the Nanos firmware.
OK...

You made a choice to run unsupported hardware and firmware and then bring it up.  I made the choice not to ignore you.  And so, here we are...  Having some fun...  lol.

I'm having a blast... is that what the kids are saying today? I've never written so much, I might write a book.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #970 on: April 20, 2021, 11:36:28 pm »
Sadly, I think the only way to sort it out would be to try and replicate your setup.   You like playing with firmware.   Can you take that firmware and run it in old hardware?  Do you even have the old hardware to try it?    If that works, point me to where the hex or binary image can be found and I will try and load it into mine.   

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #971 on: April 21, 2021, 12:33:08 am »
I tried an earlier version of Dislord's firmware in my first nano in the hope of upping the points count, but no joy.
My newer nano H4 has a slightly different processor that allows the 401 points.
As for sorting out my problems... I don't have any with 1.08. It's only the later versions giving me grief. I'm more than happy to stick with it.

https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/files/Dislord%27s%20Nanovna%20-H%20Firmware for all of Dislord's firmware.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #972 on: April 21, 2021, 01:01:50 am »
Quote
My newer nano H4 has a slightly different processor that allows the 401 points.
That makes sense. 

It's odd the frequencies would be identical but 1.08 works and 1.12 does not.  It's possible that it has nothing to do with the added number of points.  I wonder with 1.12 being faster if that is causing the problem with your new hardware.  Hard to believe a new processor and the latest firmware can't keep up over a slow serial connection but maybe.  When you select 400 data points, it pushes the timing over the edge.   1.08 was much slower.   

We could try 1.13 - 1.21  (figure it would take at least that many attempts) of trial and error.   Another option that may actually be faster would be replicate your setup.  Of course, that do nothing option is always there as well.      If you want to try some random guessing, I can upload a new version in a few minutes.


***
Go ahead and provide me with the purchasing info for your exact hardware as well.  If you have modified yours in any way, I want that information as well. 

***
1.13 is live if you want to try it.  Step one, turn off the data while changing the frequency.   
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 01:15:24 am by joeqsmith »
 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #973 on: April 21, 2021, 01:17:43 am »
You make em... I'll test em.

My H4 was bought from these chaps...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001548276258.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3cef4c4dXTxMXT

No modifications by me, but the photos I've seen online show my display is slightly different with its connection.
The only thing I have done is put it on a stand.
 

Offline purpose

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Re: NanoVNA Custom Software
« Reply #974 on: April 21, 2021, 01:37:09 am »
Step one, turn off the data while changing the frequency.
Not entirely sure what you mean by this.

Just tried it as normal. More deformed waves and ending up 30Hz to the right of centre.

Need some sleep, but expect you'll have 14 by the time I wake up.

Toodle pip.
 


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