NanoVNA Custom Software

[joeqsmith]

Hi, this not seems a CW

Start reading here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/nanovna-v2-aka-s-a-a-2/msg3205780/#msg3205780

[joeqsmith]

...
I started with VSWR too, was fun to try-and-error a Vivaldi out of copper tape. When the Smith chart shows a bit too much inductance, cut some tape and make the coupling capa larger... Works like a charm, got the SWR below 1.2 in the entire 2.4 G ISM band  (need  directional antennas for the radar). Now I have the rough shape, will cut it out of copper sheet and put it in a can (side lope suppression) to reduce direct path reception.
Its amazing what this little thing can do, but your software is definitively the icing on the cake. Reference subtraction, all the options for stimulus, automatic marker placement, ... incredible. 

For fun I attempted to use the picture of your antenna to replicate it.   Also, for fun I thought I would show the VSWR with the V2P4 uncalibrated (yellow trace) and then calibrated (1G - 3GHz range).     Also shown are a few other Vivaldi antennas I had made. 

[joeqsmith]

Swag at a new antenna. 

[joeqsmith]

Reading up on the inverse chirp z-transform.


https://coppermountaintech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Time-Domain-Analysis.pdf

https://www.sbrt.org.br/sbrt2017/anais/1570359870.pdf

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-60878-7.pdf?proof=t

[joeqsmith]

There is a new version now in the works.   Most of the changes are for the TDR measurements but I have added some other features as well. 

[DC1MC]

What hardware variant/trusted seller do you recommend that gives the best results for the software, I've seen a (most likely fake clone of fake clone) NanoVNA of a friend that was frankly speaking a piece of junk, never producing 2 similar measurements in a row  .

So is there a trusted reliable seller somewhere, preferably in EU, best in DE, but wherever it is if it ships in DE is OK.

 Many thanks for your software,
 DC1MC

[joeqsmith]

What hardware variant/trusted seller do you recommend that gives the best results for the software, I've seen a (most likely fake clone of fake clone) NanoVNA of a friend that was frankly speaking a piece of junk, never producing 2 similar measurements in a row  .

So is there a trusted reliable seller somewhere, preferably in EU, best in DE, but wherever it is if it ships in DE is OK.

 Many thanks for your software,
 DC1MC

I see that question posted a lot.  I really don't have a lot of experience with the different manufactures.  I bought the V2Plus and V2Plus4 directly from OWOs company.   The H4 appears to be well put together kit, but I have no idea who produced it.   I am also not sure where my friend bought the two original NanoVNAs. 

As far as making a recommendation on what to buy, it depends on how much you want to spend and how you plan to use it.  The firmware has been by far the biggest problem I have ran into. 

If you do not need narrow band measurements and plan to work above 300MHz, the V2Plus4 would be my pick out of the low cost VNAs.  If you want to work below 300MHz and need barrow band, or if you want to make PDN measurements, get the original NanoVNA.    If you need both, I would buy both products.
If you're the typical radio hobbyist and want to measure your antennas SWR out to three places beyond the decimal, stop kidding yourself and buy an SWR meter.

As far as your friends comment, its hard to say.  They would need to post some actual data, their setup.... before I could offer any input.    You read some of the things people post, like using a couple of VNAs and Ts to make full 2-port measurements  or connecting their VNA directly to their radios PA and you get the idea that many users are just starting to learn some basics.   I wouldn't look to them for advice.    (All actual posts BTW.  You can't make this stuff up.)

I've shown a lot of tests using these low cost VNAs  and have been pretty impressed with the data I have pulled from them.  Obviously working at higher frequencies will require more care to avoid measurement errors.    If your friend has a blog where they are posting their test results, provide a link and I will have a look at it. 

***

[galileo]

What hardware variant/trusted seller do you recommend that gives the best results for the software, I've seen a (most likely fake clone of fake clone) NanoVNA of a friend that was frankly speaking a piece of junk, never producing 2 similar measurements in a row  .

So is there a trusted reliable seller somewhere, preferably in EU, best in DE, but wherever it is if it ships in DE is OK.

 Many thanks for your software,
 DC1MC

This is the manufacturer (Hugen) of Nano H and H4, TinySA etc: https://nanovna.com/?page_id=121
I would suggest that you get the H4 as it is a more capable device with standards that have been characterized (search for Kurt Poulsen's calibration data).

[DC1MC]

What hardware variant/trusted seller do you recommend that gives the best results for the software, I've seen a (most likely fake clone of fake clone) NanoVNA of a friend that was frankly speaking a piece of junk, never producing 2 similar measurements in a row  .

So is there a trusted reliable seller somewhere, preferably in EU, best in DE, but wherever it is if it ships in DE is OK.

 Many thanks for your software,
 DC1MC

This is the manufacturer (Hugen) of Nano H and H4, TinySA etc: https://nanovna.com/?page_id=121
I would suggest that you get the H4 as it is a more capable device with standards that have been characterized (search for Kurt Poulsen's calibration data).

Thanks for the tip, the H4 variant is also called "Hugen 3.4 with a 4" screen"?

"This VNA is the latest official 3.4 Hugen version, it has a TFT touch screen available in 2 sizes 2.8 "(7.1cm) and 4" (10.1cm), power supply by USB-C cable (supplied) or internal battery included 650mAh or 1950mAh (H4)."

Cheers,
DC1MC

[joeqsmith]

What hardware variant/trusted seller do you recommend that gives the best results for the software, I've seen a (most likely fake clone of fake clone) NanoVNA of a friend that was frankly speaking a piece of junk, never producing 2 similar measurements in a row  .

So is there a trusted reliable seller somewhere, preferably in EU, best in DE, but wherever it is if it ships in DE is OK.

 Many thanks for your software,
 DC1MC

This is the manufacturer (Hugen) of Nano H and H4, TinySA etc: https://nanovna.com/?page_id=121
I would suggest that you get the H4 as it is a more capable device with standards that have been characterized (search for Kurt Poulsen's calibration data).

Thanks for the tip, the H4 variant is also called "Hugen 3.4 with a 4" screen"?

"This VNA is the latest official 3.4 Hugen version, it has a TFT touch screen available in 2 sizes 2.8 "(7.1cm) and 4" (10.1cm), power supply by USB-C cable (supplied) or internal battery included 650mAh or 1950mAh (H4)."

Cheers,
DC1MC

I have some "NanoVNA-H4" that never sees any use due to the lack of stable firmware for it.   It appears to have similar problems that I saw with the original Nanovna a few years ago.   It cost about $100 USD.  I bought it after someone here was posting about having problems when trying to use my software with it.   While some newer firmware allows it to support more data points,  it's plagued with problems.   The focus seems more on adding features than fixing problems.  If you  are planning to run headless, why pay for the larger LCD.   I would save the $50 and get the original if you are working below 300MHz, need narrow band or want to measure PDNs. 

You may even be better off with a spectrum analyzer and tracking generator.  It really depends.  I assume you are posting here because you want to use my software for some reason. 

If you are a beginner and just wanting to learn some basics, I wouldn't worry too much about the standards or cables.  Of course, your goals may be different.  I had someone post me about trying to use one of these low cost VNAs to look at a metrology grade Beatty standard with 10 samples or some such nonsense because it apparently improves the edge rates.    There is a lot you could learn a lot from just reading the papers published by HP.   

First 10 minutes or so discusses the VNAs I have and their shortcomings.   

[galileo]

Thanks for the tip, the H4 variant is also called "Hugen 3.4 with a 4" screen"?

"This VNA is the latest official 3.4 Hugen version, it has a TFT touch screen available in 2 sizes 2.8 "(7.1cm) and 4" (10.1cm), power supply by USB-C cable (supplied) or internal battery included 650mAh or 1950mAh (H4)."

Cheers,
DC1MC

Yes that's the one. AFAIK only the 4" version gets the new hardware updates (new lower noise DC-DC converter, microsd slot etc).

[galileo]

I have some "NanoVNA-H4" that never sees any use due to the lack of stable firmware for it.   It appears to have similar problems that I saw with the original Nanovna a few years ago.   It cost about $100 USD.  I bought it after someone here was posting about having problems when trying to use my software with it.   While some newer firmware allows it to support more data points,  it's plagued with problems.   The focus seems more on adding features than fixing problems.  If you  are planning to run headless, why pay for the larger LCD.   I would save the $50 and get the original if you are working below 300MHz, need narrow band or want to measure PDNs. 

I haven't had any issues with H4 and DisLord firmware (I believe that all H4 in production come with his firmware) but I only use NanoVNASaver.
Anyway please post your issues at https://github.com/DiSlord/NanoVNA-D/issues or https://groups.io/g/nanovna-beta-test/
Hugen has raised the price recently, I got my H4 last November, from his store, for less than $60. Current price is ~$80 (with shipping).

[joeqsmith]

I have some "NanoVNA-H4" that never sees any use due to the lack of stable firmware for it.   It appears to have similar problems that I saw with the original Nanovna a few years ago.   It cost about $100 USD.  I bought it after someone here was posting about having problems when trying to use my software with it.   While some newer firmware allows it to support more data points,  it's plagued with problems.   The focus seems more on adding features than fixing problems.  If you  are planning to run headless, why pay for the larger LCD.   I would save the $50 and get the original if you are working below 300MHz, need narrow band or want to measure PDNs. 

I haven't had any issues with H4 and DisLord firmware (I believe that all H4 in production come with his firmware) but I only use NanoVNASaver.
Anyway please post your issues at https://github.com/DiSlord/NanoVNA-D/issues or https://groups.io/g/nanovna-beta-test/
Hugen has raised the price recently, I got my H4 last November, from his store, for less than $60. Current price is ~$80 (with shipping).

I have no plans to invest any more time into the H4.   If you're interested, you may find the discussion about some of the problems I mention with the H4 here: 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3577360/#msg3577360

[galileo]

I have no plans to invest any more time into the H4.   If you're interested, you may find the discussion about some of the problems I mention with the H4 here: 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3577360/#msg3577360

Browsed the next few pages, his English proficiency certainly did not help with diagnosing the issue.
Anyway can you link to the firmware that works for you, if I get some free time I would like to compare
the results that I get with it and with the latest firmware from DisLord.

[joeqsmith]

I have no plans to invest any more time into the H4.   If you're interested, you may find the discussion about some of the problems I mention with the H4 here: 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3577360/#msg3577360

Browsed the next few pages, his English proficiency certainly did not help with diagnosing the issue.
Anyway can you link to the firmware that works for you, if I get some free time I would like to compare
the results that I get with it and with the latest firmware from DisLord.

I never found a version of firmware that would work with my H4.  If I did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.   

For the original NanoVNA, I am still using the version that some of the locals here had worked on to correct some of the problems.   That version is stored with the software.   For the V2Plus4, I am using the firmware that was supplied with it.  That's been stable from the start.   

[galileo]

I never found a version of firmware that would work with my H4.  If I did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.   

For the original NanoVNA, I am still using the version that some of the locals here had worked on to correct some of the problems.   That version is stored with the software.   For the V2Plus4, I am using the firmware that was supplied with it.  That's been stable from the start.

I was referring to firmware for the 2.8" version. Where is that file stored again? I browsed your github page and listed
the files in the multi part archives (haven't seen a multi part archive in years  ) but nothing there resembles the firmware
for the nano.

[joeqsmith]

As I mentioned, the spanned ZIP is because Github limits the file sizes.   Take the time to read the README file or a least the first few sentences.  That should get you started.   You do not need to DL the entire LV runtime to get the firmware. 

If you like, you can also post the location and version of the firmware you feel is working and I can run it through my simple regression test. 

***
The updates to the software is pretty much finished and tested.  I need to get the manual updated as well.  The plan is to again make a short video to demonstrate the changes. 

If there is something specific anyone would like to see demo'ed, feel free to ask and I'll try to include it. 

[joeqsmith]

Preview of the latest release.

[joeqsmith]

So I was close to cutting it loose, but someone had asked about adding additional features for characterizing amplifiers. 

https://nanorfe.com/forum/Preview-of-my-latest-software-updates.html

For just adding the B factory mentioned, it's a simple enough thing to do.  Maybe use the two scales off the main plot.    Adding the stability circles may be more difficult depending what people would want to see.  Also seems like other stability factors may be useful...   I think I would end up just adding a whole new tab to the advanced menu specifically for amplifier design. 

With these low cost VNAs not being a 2-port analyzer,  we are back to needing a transfer relay.   Or OWO needs to move ahead...   

Just curious if anyone here has any interest in such a feature.  If so, any thought on how to present the data?  Any tools you are currently using? 

[joeqsmith]

Adding something like this on a separate tab would be simple enough.  Maybe allow user to select between gain and stability circles on the same graphs...  I try to keep the basics on that main menu and jamming it onto that may be a bit much.     

[Alextsu]

Adding something like this on a separate tab would be simple enough.  Maybe allow user to select between gain and stability circles on the same graphs...  I try to keep the basics on that main menu and jamming it onto that may be a bit much.   

Hi, Joe,
that would be great to see this new stability analysys features.
The basic idea behind the request I've posted was to have several graphs, as described in this introductory paper by Les Besser:
https://designingelectronics.com/pdfs/AvoidingRFOscillation.pdf

This would utilise K-factor, B-factor (aka the determinant of the S-matrix), and the mu-factor.

Other graphs, including the  Source & Load stability circles, might be helpful in case the more detailed study is needed.

From available books about VNA Measurements, some good examples could be taken, f.e., from
Joel Dunsmore's
Handbook of Microwave Component Measurements

others examples could be taken, f.e.,  from NI-AWR software or Keysight ADS documentation, etc.

Alex

[joeqsmith]

Are you using these tools (ADS AWR) today?  It may be helpful to see some screenshots of how you would like the data formatted.  It may also be helpful for you to go through an example using these tools. 

Also, I am very curious what you are using for your setup?  Which VNA, transfer relay?   Could you post a picture?   You're the first person that I've seen mention using, or wanting to use all four S-parameters.   

Shown are both the stability and mapping circles.  They, along with the readouts are selected by the cursor.   

[joeqsmith]

After some thought, the plan is to add onto the 2-Port Plot tab. 

[Alextsu]

After some thought, the plan is to add onto the 2-Port Plot tab.

That's would be OK, thank You.
Though I am unfamiliar with Unilateral factor.
Does it have the same definition as the mu-factor mentioned in the .pdf paper above?
In fact, most modern VNAs have this stability analysis option built-in.
At my previous job I had access to all these tools, but unfortunately, now I've been fired out, so now I am just in a process of setting up my home lab, where I cannot afford any expensive equipment.
For me it's just a hobby now, nothing more.
I shall post here some images with stability analysis graphs, but not too soon.
What's might be interesting to see in the SW features is the ability to plot a family of load stability circles on one graph simultaneously in case of broadband stability analysis, for implemented frequency sweep, as it is shown in the last section of L. Besser paper
Thanks,
Alex

[joeqsmith]

After some thought, the plan is to add onto the 2-Port Plot tab.

That's would be OK, thank You.
Though I am unfamiliar with Unilateral factor.
Does it have the same definition as the mu-factor mentioned in the .pdf paper above?
In fact, most modern VNAs have this stability analysis option built-in.
At my previous job I had access to all these tools, but unfortunately, now I've been fired out, so now I am just in a process of setting up my home lab, where I cannot afford any expensive equipment.
For me it's just a hobby now, nothing more.
I shall post here some images with stability analysis graphs, but not too soon.
What's might be interesting to see in the SW features is the ability to plot a family of load stability circles on one graph simultaneously in case of broadband stability analysis, for implemented frequency sweep, as it is shown in the last section of L. Besser paper
Thanks,
Alex

That's too bad as I anticipated with you asking, you had a way to verify the results but it sounds like you don't have a way to run the software. 

The Unilateral factor is not the same as Mu.   I have the calculations for u1 and u2 but am not displaying them in my software yet.  See if you can get to the following link:

https://edadocs.software.keysight.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=5920607

Plotting a family of circles is easily done in a text book, but I'm not sure how it would be accomplished in the real world.   These are data formatting questions that I had hoped you would clear up by showing how your tools work.    Considering there is a circle for each point collected.  Even the original NanoVNA will capture 101 data points, so 101 circles.   OWO mentions the V3 supporting 10,000 data points. 

https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-v3.html

Calculating 10,000 data sets shouldn't pose much of a problem but plotting them may be a bit much.   The METAS and AppCAD software doesn't support amplifier stability.