NanoVNA Custom Software

[FPSychotic]

Hi, I just want to confirm that your software is working and is wonderful
It is working in Windows 11,  with the NI stuff you said, and no issue with the sound dll file.
Thanks a lot by your time. I just reinstalled and worked, no further intervention, maybe ir was a faulty LiteNVA , I made it work with a second unit with same firmware version.
Thanks take this effort, and use you unquestionable talent and knowledge to help help others

[joeqsmith]

That is good to know as you are the only person I know of that has tried to run it on 11.   My friend flipper's Lite was supplied with a defective USB cable and we ran into that snag with the design not considering the full range of voltage available on the port.  Outside of that, I've not had any real problems with the hardware.  It's become my favorite of the low cost VNAs.  If they ever improve the lower frequency performance, I would certainly order up a new one.   

Take care and enjoy your new VNA. 

[joeqsmith]

It's been several weeks since I last made any changes to the software and consider it stable.   I have uploaded revision 3.06 32-bit for the LiteVNA and V2Plus4. 

I also updated some of the photos in the README and have included ALW's where he is attempting to measure his heart rate.  Also some data from the 2-axis rotor is shown. 

[FPSychotic]

Hi, @joeqsmith just let you know in case someone ask you, I could install Solver32 LiteVNA that you recently updated in Windows11, keeping the Solver64 Setup.
I could install the old NI and VISA runtimes without conflict.
It is working now I need learn a lot of RF and your software, I just got the stuff required and got set it up, from now will be everything learn, I honestly think your software and Satsagen (6 Ghz SA,TSA,Sig.gen. for ADI Adalm Pluto SDR) will be the most useful tool I have.
I just seen the WIKI with the 3D radiance antenna plots and I almost fall from my chair.

[joeqsmith]

If you find the performance of the 32-bit acceptable, you may want to consider removing the 64-bit just to save some space.   Any future updates would be with the 32-bit for the LiteVNA and V2+4.   

[FPSychotic]

I think it just run fine. I only need learn RF and use it! Thanks!

[FPSychotic]

Just it know here in liteVNA group.io, someone posted a newer version. It is nice as it can save calibration files in the SD card with names, the pictures can receive a name too.
It looks solved a issue I had that the VNA lose the calibration a lite every day, and in two or three days you need make a calibration.
I guess you need be group member to access to this link

https://groups.io/g/liteVNA/attachment/540/0/LiteVNA64%20v1.3.00.bin

[joeqsmith]

If you find there are problems when using my software with it,  I'm using Dislord's firmware 1.2 Jan 27 2022.   

[joeqsmith]

It seems they released a new version of the LiteVNA which may address some of the USB problems I had demonstrated where the did not consider the full voltage range of the standard.   You can see that in the video below starting about 49 minutes in.   I have no idea if they actually did solve the problem or make any improvements only that they posted about it. 

https://groups.io/g/liteVNA/topic/the_new_litevna64_which/93138117?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate/sticky,,,20,2,0,93138117,previd%3D1661010961385874549,nextid%3D1649971688251132758&previd=1661010961385874549&nextid=1649971688251132758

[realfran]

Hello, the new NANO VNA 6000 is on sale, can work with your software?

[joeqsmith]

Hello, the new NANO VNA 6000 is on sale, can work with your software? (Attachment Link)

Are you spending the $800+ USD to find out?   
https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/nanorfe-vna6000/

I don't see it being a popular item.  The cost is too high for someone wanting to get started learning about VNAs.  From a professional view, it really doesn't offer anything new.  We have the LiteVNA which my software has been tested with.   I do wonder if they actually improved the Lite's hardware but it's hardly worth spending any cash on it to find out.   

The most recent software I have released was tested with the V2Plus4, V2Plus and LiteVNA 64.  In all cases, this will be highly dependent upon the firmware.   I only found one version of firmware that would work with the V2Plus and not cause the VNA to hang.   Because the developers do not provide products for me to test, I really can't say how the 6000 behaves.   It's really up to the product developers to  ensure they adhere to the protocols they came up with to control them.  If they make any changes, I would expect it to brake.   

[rplabs]

$789 for the A version and $1499 for the B one. Looks like LibreVNA is better positioned at around $600.

Since I upgraded my NanoVNA V2plus4 last week to the latest 20220814 firmware I see that the "Save" feature is not working anymore, after power off/on again it goes to default settings. On top of this "Recall" presets crash the unit and it needs a power cycle.

VNA6000 is using the same firmware... so I guess it is also inheriting these bugs.

[joeqsmith]

$789 for the A version and $1499 for the B one. Looks like LibreVNA is better positioned at around $600.

Note that the thread is about custom software for the NanoVNA, which includes the V2Plus4 and the LiteVNAs.   Because the LibreVNA's direct protocol to control it is not documented, I have no plans to ever support it.   

The cost for OWOs 6GHz versions along with there's just not enough improvements for me to consider it.  If I wanted a higher end VNA, I would purchase a used professional system (which is what I have).   

Since I upgraded my NanoVNA V2plus4 last week to the latest 20220814 firmware I see that the "Save" feature is not working anymore, after power off/on again it goes to default settings. On top of this "Recall" presets crash the unit and it needs a power cycle.

I have no use for any firmware features beyond getting the raw data out of the unit as fast as possible and having control over the hardware.  The only reason I would use one standalone is for a demonstration.  The display, buttons, SD card interfaces for me have no use. 

I have posted many times about the problems I have ran into with firmware and software both.  There's a reason I don't upgrade firmware and write my own software.   

VNA6000 is using the same firmware... so I guess it is also inheriting these bugs.

The V2Plus4 firmware that was supplied with mine was very stable.  The firmware for the V2Plus would hang and require the unit be power cycled.  After having them for about a year, I tried several versions of firmware for the V2Plus before finding one that was stable.   Newer versions would hang as before.  I wouldn't suggest any firmware is good or bad without performing extensive tests on it.   

The firmware for the original NanoVNA was so poor and was being updated so often I wrote a regression test to help me sort though the mess.  The downside to open source, you have people that maybe shouldn't be coding working on it.  The version I run is very old and has no features.  I could care less as it's stable and throws up some good enough data.   

[joeqsmith]

Using the LiteVNA to run a few tests on 1Gb Ethernet. 

[joeqsmith]

Intel paper:  1000BASE-T/100BASE-TX/10BASE-T Physical Layer Compliance Tests Manual

https://community.intel.com/cipcp26785/attachments/cipcp26785/embedded-core-processors/2456/1/1000BASE_T%20100BASE_TX%2010BASE_T%20Physical%20Layer%20Compliance%20Tests%20Manual.pdf

Section: 1000BASE-T MDI Return Loss
The BALUN uses a Mini-Circuits TC1-1-13M.   The paper shows a start frequency of 1MHz where this transformer is spec'ed for 4.5M - 3G.    Digikey still offers an evaluation board for this transformer (shown in previous picture).   Datasheet may be found here:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mini-circuits/TC1-1-13M/13927704

Attached showing the return loss of all four channels on four different boards.   

With the newer firmware for the LiteVNA supporting harmonic modes in excess of 9GHz,  I attempted to make use of this to look at the trace matching on the PCBs along with looking at a few different cables.    One thing I may add now is a way to save some of the TDR data or at least give you a way to measure the change from a reference.     

[joeqsmith]

It appears CMT recently posted an article about using BALUNs with a VNA.  While the article is more generalized and not specifically about Ethernet, they chose to use the same Mini-circuits part. 

Online Spotlight: Balun Measurements with a Two-Port Vector Network Analyzer
July 14, 2022  Brian Walker, Copper Mountain Technologies, Indianapolis, Ind.

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/38492-balun-measurements-with-a-two-port-vector-network-analyzer?page=3

[joeqsmith]

Another article from Tektronix (previously Picosecond Pulse Labs) describing their ultra wideband BALUN. 

[joeqsmith]

Added storage to my software's TDR function.  Shown using the LiteVNA to look at the individual wires of a 4' CAT5E cable.   The length looks like it varies about 6.8mm.   There was no averaging and the IFBW was set to 4k.  Sweep range was 100k to 9G.   

Also shown is the transition from the coax to the wires.  This is of course very stable and my adapter isn't going to add a lot of error.  620mm is roughly 2' which is roughly the length of my coax cables.     

For now, rather than having a separate memory button for each location, I just have a single button that increments to the next location.   

***  Note that there was no attempt to calibrate the VNA for this particular test.

*** SNAFU

[joeqsmith]

Datasheet for the ADT2-1T  may be found here:

https://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ADT2-1T.pdf

While the TC1_1_13MA was setup as a current BALUN, the ADT2-1T was setup as a voltage BALUN.   Attached showing the return loss of the four pairs on our 1Gb Ethernet after calibration.   

https://blog.minicircuits.com/demystifying-transformers-baluns-and-ununs/

[joeqsmith]

My cable length mismatch setup was flawed.  The software had a bug and the scales were not even close...   These problems have been corrected. 

The following was taken from an Anritsu paper:
https://dl.cdn-anritsu.com/en-us/test-measurement/files/Technical-Notes/White-Paper/11410-00988A.pdf

Skew
Extremely high data rate signals can be created by combining multiple parallel paths at lower rates. For
instance, a 40 Gigabit system can utilize four parallel 10 Gigabit paths. Where this is done, care must be
taken to ensure that the propagation time through the various paths is the same. The difference in
propagation time is called skew; skew between traces of a single differential pair is intra-pair skew and
skew between two or more differential pairs is inter-pair skew. If the connecting medium is coaxial
cable, tight control of mechanical length and dielectric tolerances will produce minimal problems with
skew. However, when differential twisted pairs are the conducting medium, the number of turns per
inch is a critical factor in determining propagation time. Commercial CAT5e/6 cable can have as much
as 10 nanoseconds of skew between the paths in a one hundred foot run. This equates to as much as
ten feet of electrical length within the same cable!

Skew is a time/electrical length measurement and is easily determined using the time domain
capabilities of a VNA. Where both ends of the cable are available (prior to installation), it becomes a
straightforward insertion phase measurement. After installation, reflection phase can be used to
measure differences in propagation time. For this measurement, the far end is shorted, so a high
reflection is presented to the instrument. This makes it easy to derive comparisons of roundtrip time.
Roundtrip time must be divided by two, either offline or within the measuring instrument. All Anritsu
VNAs can provide the one-way or round trip times in time domain reflection mode.

We are only looking at a Gb.   For this test I am using a 7' length of CAT5E cable.

CAT5E_Matching_Setup:   
LiteVNA was set to sweep from 100kHz to 9.3GHz.  601 data points was chosen to allow us to measure the 7' cable + the VNA's interface cable.  VF was set to 0.64.   Once again, no calibration was performed (we are just looking for a ballpark number)

CAT5E_Matching_Open:
Looking at the VNAs test cable with nothing attached.  The cable measures roughly 22" (ruler) or 560mm.   

CAT5E_Matching_7ft_pair1:
Measuring the first pair and saving to location 1 (Green trace).  I zoomed in vertically to show the 50ohm coax and the 100ohm CAT5E cable.   Notice the distance between the two cursors is 2.085 meters or about 6.8 feet.   Roughly the length of my test cable.

CAT5E_Matching_7ft_pair1_4:
Collecting all four pairs.   

CAT5E_Matching_7ft_pair1_4_delta:
Setting the two cursors during the open transition.   It appears we have roughly 42mm of mismatch between pairs.   From the Anritsu paper I am guessing this is not unusual.   

[joeqsmith]

Showing the new transformer and CAT5E test cable.

[joeqsmith]

I had posted how my friend Shimp's LiteVNA was very noisy and how I have made up a dropping USB cable to improve it.   I have been using Dislords unreleased firmware that he posted here that improved the AGC (V1.2.09).   Today I tried out the latest firmware 220228 and at least the AGC is still working.   My plan is to transition over to the new firmware (assuming I don't run into any problems with it).   

This VNA would get much worse (noise) when the battery was removed.   I ended up pulling the 220uF bulk and adding several tant and ceramics to try and improve the noise.   Shown even without the USB dropping cable, this VNA is now as low as my other VNA.  Removing the battery now has no effect.   

[joeqsmith]

I had also attempted to bump up the IF gain a small amount.  The noise was too high and my first attempt yielded no improvement.    I made another attempt and saw a slight improvement.

[joeqsmith]

New release is now available.  I made a short clip showing how to use the new TDR memory feature.

[joeqsmith]

Scratch pad reminders....

https://www.salukitec.com/resource/time-domain-reflection-tdr-impedance-test/

https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/pdm/cl_manuals/user_manual/1173_9163_01/ZNB_ZNBT_UserManual_en_62.pdf

https://www.signalintegrityjournal.com/articles/432-s-parameters-signal-integrity-analysis-in-the-blink-of-an-eye
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http://teledynelecroy.github.io/SignalIntegrity/SignalIntegrity/App/Help/Help.html.LyXconv/Help-Section-1.html#toc-Section-1