Removing cellular RF chip to cut ties to network (Samsung/Android Kernel)

[Simon]

ever heard of whatsapp, signal......

[SeanB]

Or the easiest way to break crypto, the good old fashioned rubber hose and waterboard.

[antenna]

ever heard of whatsapp, signal......

Yes I have, but this way I don't have to trust them or pay them.

[Gyro]

You don't have to pay them. Use signal if you're worried about you data being monetised

[antenna]

You don't have to pay them. Use signal if you're worried about you data being monetised

First, I think my example on why someone "may have wanted" an RF-quiet device has inadvertently jacked this thread, and that was not my intention. 

The app I gave in my example is made, the work is done.  It requires no online services and none of the worlds best hackers can crack it due to the one-time pad which none of those other services use.  Why would I give up 100% security (short of torture, which wouldn't work anyhow because we too lose the keys and my memory sucks) for something more questionable?  Besides, being it is a one-time pad, if I were tortured into helping decode it, I could easily make up an equally random key that turns the code into a pizza crust recipe.

We thought we could trust MD5, we thought we could trust AES256, we thought the feds couldn't recover bitcoin, and we all thought our liberty safes were actually safe, so I will stick to my one time pad.  But thanks for the alternative options!

[Simon]

well this thread was doomed to go into conspiracies.

[AndyBeez]

well this thread was doomed to go into conspiracies.

Remember when 5G rays were proven by YT influencers to have caused Covid? Dave and Big Clive will still be debunking these fake technical experts and their snake oil tech for decades to come. Simple fact, if you use the internet then you share your metadata. Because this is how anonymous protocols function. Whether it's over 5G, PPPoE, LoRa, or by waving Semaphore flags, my end point is where I'm at. And this is recorded thousands of times a day in server logs across the world. Even here.

The trick for modern connected internet life is to learn how not to share your personal data. Or at least, how to anonymise yourself to those who do not need to know what you are doing and why you are doing it. Does the OP have a LinkedIn, Facebook, TikTok or Instagram presence? If aged under 40, a near certainty. So having an RF inert tablet is not going to be a protection against the insidious gaze of 'THEM WHO ARE USING ALIEN MIND PROBE TECHNOLOGY' _{[cue X-Files music]}... 

[antenna]

I get a kick out of people who think that anyone interested in privacy is an instant conspiracy theorist.  It's always straight to the extreme, isn't it?

It has nothing to do with paranoia, we "foil hat wearers", as you may call us, know that those with the ability to monitor and track our every move either have much better things to do, or are doing it for market reasons ~ no big deal.  It is the peace of mind knowing I have the capability to send a message privately at hand if I ever need it, nothing more.  The app I have has been used three times total since we set them up 2 years ago, and all three times were tests.  I don't hide everything I say, my phone and computer doesn't even have passwords. I am merely prepared to hide just the important parts if a reason ever arises.  Theres a big difference between that and someone who thinks they are under constant surveillance. Being prepared for various situations does not make someone a conspiracy theorist or threat.

Edit:  Here is a conspiracy theory for you.  The government wants civilian privacy eliminated.  If only there was some evidence of that, just a little, it wouldn't be a theory anymore.  It would become a possibility.   It's not like the sheriff dept in your jurisdiction owns a stingray or similar, I mean, why would they?  They can get warrants, right?  lol

[Melt-O-Tronic]

It's appalling that a new user comes along, asks a simple question and gets called a "conspiracy theorist" and "nutjob".  Go back and re-read his (her?) two posts above -- they had nothing to do with that.  He simply wanted to repurpose a device for something that doesn't require wireless connectivity.  What is wrong with that?

And for those of you who jumped all over him, are you truly anti-privacy?  Is anyone who wants to conserve some vestige of privacy really a "nutjob" to you?  If so, I challenge you to post your account password and your home address here.  Hey, only a nutjob would want to protect their own privacy, right?

But we don't even know if that's his motive.  Maybe it is.  Maybe it's more about conserving power by not running unneeded hardware.  It doesn't matter, the question was legitimate.

The only reason this thread was "doomed to go into conspiracies" is because of some of the actual nutjob responders who jumped in with these baseless accusations.

This thread turned from a perfectly reasonable question to a shit show of misinterpretation and accusations.  A few of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Infraviolet]

"Use signal if you're..."
Just such a shame Signal don't have standalone clients for use on non-phone devices (Linux/Windows/Mac laptops/desktops... Rasp Pi...).

As for the mention of AES256 being vulnerable, since when? I know a working quantum computer would efectively halve the key length, but beyond that I hadn't heard of any problems. MD5, that was the one where the guy who found the vulnerability made a file "predicting the election", and shared the MD5 of the file with a betting shop to bet on the election result? Infact he had made two files predicting both possible winners, and made sure they both gave the same MD5.

As far as this thread goes, whether the OPs reason to get the device de-networked is about surveillance fears, or using the device as some sort of embedded computer in a room where he is running some super sensitive analogue thing and wants no risk of a nearby radio signal messing up a measurement... Surely removing the antenna itself is the solution, for saving power there might be advantages in removing the chip instead, but the power consumption of the rado related chip is surely insignificant compared to all the other things running inside the phone and draining the battery.

[Simon]

I get a kick out of people who think that anyone interested in privacy is an instant conspiracy theorist.  It's always straight to the extreme, isn't it?

It has nothing to do with paranoia,

conspiracies maybe not, but paranoia definitely

Edit:  Here is a conspiracy theory for you.  The government wants civilian privacy eliminated.  If only there was some evidence of that, just a little, it wouldn't be a theory anymore.  It would become a possibility.   It's not like the sheriff dept in your jurisdiction owns a stingray or similar, I mean, why would they?  They can get warrants, right?  lol

Nah, don't be silly, the only thing a government wants is to be re-elected, just look at all the cancelling of non existent controversial policies ours is talking about just to get back in in a years time....

[luudee]

Why not just get a raspberry

The cost of one will be less than all the rework you are planning to do ...

rudi

[RoGeorge]

Second hand phones are free, have a slim enclosure, battery, display, microphone, camera, etc.
It is so much tech in a phone, and all destined to be melted after a few years, while still working. 

[Bicurico]

Second hand phones are free, have a slim enclosure, battery, display, microphone, camera, etc.
It is so much tech in a phone, and all destined to be melted after a few years, while still working. 

I have pretty much kept my phones after getting new ones.

The other day I was trying to revive a Casio WSD-F20 watch (has a software bug that prevents connecting it to a new phone after resetting the watch, but that is another story).

Anyway, some users in similar condition suggested to connect the phone with an old Google Wear version, for example, the version built for Android v4.

Of course that Google Wear version would not install or run (after manually installing it anyway) on my current phone.

So I grabbed one of my old phones and thought that will be an easy task.

I was wrong:

- Battery dead
- Google Play would not offer the old Google Wear version nor allow to install the new one
- I had to download and install the Google Wear version I wanted from dubious sources - boy, that was slow
- To be able to download, I had to mess with expired certificates of the browser
- Everything was so slowwww

I would say that a >6 year old phone is useless. Current applications won't install, old version won't run, internet is incredibly slow, battery issues, plastic becomes sticky (the rubber coating), etc.

In my opinion:

New phone: use it for two years and sell it (I don't sell mine, they go into a drawer as a backup device, which I never use)
2 year old phone: use if for 2-4 years (if it lasts as long)
Over 6 years: dispose of it. Recycle it.

Want a cool application: get a Raspberry Pi, ESP32, STM32, etc.

You will get a working device, a functional SDK and you can even reproduce whatever you developed, since you can purchase further hardware.

Would be a shame of OP gets his super secure messaging system working, but anyone who wants to join in has to get an old S8 and remove a BGA chip...

[RoGeorge]

Seems the problem was the with a 3rd party service from Google (battery can be replaced, or power from 5V instead).

I never buy devices that can not work offline, and never use software as a service, only standalone software.  Been burned too many times by depending on a 3rd party.

As we speak, aside from the current phone:

- I keep in the home lab a Nokia Lumia from around 2010, always on the workbench as a camera for electronics.  Has great macro, good autofocus and just enough resolution, with Blutooth to transfer pics to the PC without any cable.
- a Samsung J5 from ~2015, has only one job, to play audiobooks.  Has a good enough internal speaker.  Always start from one click from where it left, don't need to keep the desktop running, and don't postpone a reboot just because I was listening to a certain chapter.  Can play at higher speeds, which is a must for most audiobooks.  And what I love the most, the phone has volume buttons, no clicking and no tapping, just press, it doesn't even turn on the screen while changing the volume (the player software is called Voice apk v4.3.3).
- a 3rd one (this is used really rare), it's some OEM brand I've never heard of, so old it has physical buttons.  Though it's very sensitive as an FM radio.
- thinking of adding a 4th one for a (unused for now) Bluetooth LE temp/humidity sensor, to log/display the data, as a weather station.

All of them have the RF transmitters off by default, of course, not because of conspiracy, but to minimize battery discharge first, and second to keep the RF noises at a minimum (while measuring in the lab).  Even for those many years old batteries, I usually recharge them only 1-2 times a week, maybe less.  In contrast, the normal mobile phone with radio on needs daily charging.

Now, if it were for all the discontinued smartphones to be open sourced and well documented, plus if it were to be made (from factory) with some digital IO accessible from outside, that will make them 100 times more useful in an electronics lab.

[AndyBeez]

I can understand the conspiracy theorists from one point of view.

The immutable right to communicate without prejudice is being circumvented by state legislatures across the free world in order to; protect children, stop people trafficking, ban climate change and, prevent crimes before they happen by deploying AI to generate 'minority report' evidence.

To achieve this netutopian aim, big tech companies will be forced to make their OS compliant with data monitoring standards. The end result will not be some MtM attack on your communication but rather, an end point 'virus scan' on everyone's freedom to express.

So there is no point sending data securely if, your OS scans your email for known phrases against a list of bad words held by your ISP, or deploys facial recognition technology to check you against America's most wanted before you can log in.

There will be  nothing to fear but the fear of not saying nothing.

[Simon]

I can understand the conspiracy theorists from one point of view.

The immutable right to communicate without prejudice is being circumvented by state legislatures across the free world in order to; protect children, stop people trafficking, ban climate change and, prevent crimes before they happen by deploying AI to generate 'minority report' evidence.

To achieve this netutopian aim, big tech companies will be forced to make their OS compliant with data monitoring standards. The end result will not be some MtM attack on your communication but rather, an end point 'virus scan' on everyone's freedom to express.

So there is no point sending data securely if, your OS scans your email for known phrases against a list of bad words held by your ISP, or deploys facial recognition technology to check you against America's most wanted before you can log in.

There will be  nothing to fear but the fear of not saying nothing.

and you have credible sources for this conspiracy? You seem to forget that the way that "the world order" as the theorists like to call it is actually Companies own governments, not governments forcing companies to do much. There are constant discoveries of companies making big donations or employing politicians, they don't do this just out of good will, or at least without significant good will returned them.

[RoGeorge]

and you have credible sources for this conspiracy?

You can not have evidence for what didn't happen yet (like a compliant OS), but such an OS doesn't look far fetched.  For example, there are already in place DRM policies embedded in media players and in drivers, regional DVDs, websites/Internet geo-fencing, Cloudflare and so on.

- There are already laws against end to end encryption.
- Youtube demonetizes channels, or individual videos, for telling facts as they are, every day.  Here's an example from today:  The Man Who Killed Millions and Saved Billions (Censored) from Veritasium channel, re-uploaded today
- RT news is banned in EU
- every internet video/news/material that does not align with "the ministry of truth" is banned, and there are laws to put in jail those who dare to ask wrong questions, for example there are laws for holocaust denial
- during covid, every opinion that beg to differ was labeled as disinformation and deleted, even when it was coming from known doctors, and even when sustained with experimental results

The world is heading to totalitarianism.  I've seen this increasing censoring before, during Ceausescu (he banned "The free Europe" and the "Voice of America" radio stations, just like EU bans RT news today).  Do you know what happened next?

At some point people started suspecting each other, just like in the medieval times, when the villagers were hunting witches.  Self policing started already in our society, too.  Today people have been mind-conditioned to feel offended for nothing, or to accuse of conspiracy and lunacy first, then ask why-such-and-so only later, if ever.  Brainwashing level today is higher than during the Caeusescu's regime in Romania.

In the western world we have cancel culture already.  People avoid speaking their mind, because they risk to lose their carrier, or even worst.

You know what's the next step?  Rating each other, even for no reason.  During communism, there were plenty of opportunists that eliminated their competition by rating them to the secret services.  Want to take the job of someone else, or want to get rid of a spouse in a love affair?  Easy, file an anonymous complaint to accuse them of anti-communism.  Good luck proving you are not a traitor.  Or in our times, good luck proving you are not a pedophile.  In general it is close to impossible to prove what you are not (and against a false accusation).

I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but you keep bringing conspiracies, and now you are asking for conspiracies evidence.  Yes, you are right the OP is over-doing it by removing the RF chip, but that doesn't mean conspiracies does not turn true once in a while.  For the average dudes like us, yes, removing the RF chip is tinfoil hat, but who knows.  Maybe the OP's political profile is a Snowden, or an Assange level.


About phones taping in particular, they are tapped, and they are triangulated (for example to deduce political alliances and such).  They always were.  Here's an officially acknowledge case, one from Ro (2012):  https://www.romania-insider.com/phone-tapping-scandal-involving-romanian-president-and-former-tax-administration-head-emerges, or take the more recent examples of phone calls that leaked online, from example the Nuland calls, and so on.


As long as something is technically possible, sooner or later someone else will hack that, friend or foe.  And never forget the history flips, so what might look today like a convenient law to have, or like an ally, tomorrow might flip and become your worst enemy.

That is why, it is never a good idea to surrender your rights and freedoms.  Never give to a 3rd party unlimited powers.