Which NanoVNA?

[joeqsmith]

I first saw it when it was available for DOS. We were using Borland's BASIC back then to run our test scripts. 

I really have no idea how it effected their bottom line.    I can tell you that where I work, we dropped all maintenance contracts with them upon the announcement.  I've seen a few posts now where people have been unable to get their older versions to authenticate.  When I made the mistake of upgrading to the rental service,  once I realized what I happened I pulled all their software from the PC and did a clean install of my perpetual licenses.  At that time, I had no problem authenticating.   

I downloaded the community edition but after reading the license I never installed it as it appeared to require an internet link.  I was also concern with their new strong arm business tactics, if I invested any time with it, they would pull the plug.  So, I am locked into 2011.  Shame as I waited a long time to see that 64-bit version and would have gladly paid for it.   Now days, I just steer people away from it.  If I did not already have a license, I would never head down that path. 

[ErnestB]

I understand and it is a shame that it needed to go that way. Indeed, instead to motivate people to use and promote their product they do more harm then good with that strong language. I would do the same if I was you. There are a lot open source very capable software platforms these days. And I understand about the community license. After you put the effort in it they just may pull the plug. But if they have chosen this path after so many years and if indeed the community would grow (which I doubt) to pull the plug would be a major disappointment and would harm the company I suppose. I don't expect big growth of the community users as LabView is quite specific. Python and the accompanied libraries really dominate this community sector. Linux also. For me personally it's a mix of standpoints as I expect we will prolong our license at work. But I understand your standpoint, it would probably be smarter to invest your time in something like Python. When I told my colleague about the community LV he told me the same, for home I want to learn and use Python, but he is also an old time LV programmer that can start with a project right away, for Python it would be a learning curve. The question is if you have time to learn a new language. It is good for the brain to start something new, but nature also tendens to homeostasis and lower resistance, same as the current 😁

[ErnestB]

...and regarding the rental construction, all new companies try to use the same strategy. They want you to pay regardless if you using it or not. They want continue stream of cash. The cable companies, Netflix, music streaming services, phone companies, magazines, newspapers and so on. They want you contracted with them, and preferably for a long time. Preferably you forget to cancel the subscription one month before the end of the year so they can send the check for the next year. They don't care if you use it or not as long as you pay...

[joeqsmith]

A long time ago, I had a friend who brought in their kids lego or something or other toys.  They had some embedded computer they they controlled with LabView.  NI was smart enough to be educating the next  generation.    Then I started hearing about it being used in the kids (really the adults and major companies) robotics competitions.  Again, training the next generation.  Where I work, the acting director shows me some eval board they bought (he liked playing with electronics) and it included a student copy of LabView so he started to learn how to use it.   

It seemed they had a long term vision to grow the company.   Then we had some idiots who were going to replace LabView with NGX.  What an utter failure from the top down.  Next came their extortion practices.   They called me several times after a year wanting me to renew my rental license.  A license I had pulled as soon as I realized what had happened.  Then they personally threatened to disable my software.  That was the last conversation I have ever had with anyone at National Instruments, or what ever they now identify as.   

There is no way I would ever recommend a private person, let alone a corporation, use their products today.   Even if you were fine paying the rental fees, if they ever shut it all down, there goes your investments and any chance to maintain what you have.   I didn't see the buyout doing anything for their customers.  The risk IMO far exceeds the value. 

[joeqsmith]

...and regarding the rental construction, all new companies try to use the same strategy. They want you to pay regardless if you using it or not. They want continue stream of cash. The cable companies, Netflix, music streaming services, phone companies, magazines, newspapers and so on. They want you contracted with them, and preferably for a long time. Preferably you forget to cancel the subscription one month before the end of the year so they can send the check for the next year. They don't care if you use it or not as long as you pay...

That's fine.  I am an adult and know how to handle my own finances.  While I do subscribe for basic utilities (gas, water, electric, sewer, cable (internet)) where I am getting a service from them.  In the case of National Instruments, there really is no service.   Do you think I am going to pay them for the privalage of dropping support for my hardware or my helping them solve their most recent bugs?  Not a chance. 

That 64-bit version was the first major change I have seen that I would have actually have used.  It was significant enough that I was willing to buy it for my home use.  They just wouldn't sell it, at any cost.   

[ErnestB]

Yeah, I have looked at NXG some years ago and didn't like it. Then some time later I have seen they have abandoned the idea. So I was thinking good that I haven't invest my time in it after all. But when I was looking at the promo video of the Community I see they support it after all. But I have to admit, LabView is not my full-time occupation and from time to time I look it up.
About support and potential drop. That is actually the same for all commercial companies. They control the existence or death of a product. In contrast to something like Python that nobody actually owns, I am not sure. But it will not dissappear just like that, being globaly used.
Also I don't think LabView will disappear just like that. It is still used worldwide. I just looked it up. It is a niche language on place 72 of 100. But they put  Verilog and VHDL  on place 99 and 100. So yeah, we electronics designers know how important VHDL/Verilog still is, and of course not many people is using is, as it is a specialty. The most people program for internet and that is totally different story.

[joeqsmith]

... About support and potential drop. That is actually the same for all commercial companies. They control the existence or death of a product. In contrast to something like Python that nobody actually owns, I am not sure. But it will not dissappear just like that, being globaly used.
Also I don't think LabView will disappear just like that. It is still used worldwide. ...

Sure and that is why I would have less concern about a text based programming language.  First, you can always review the code no matter what.  Not true with LabView.  Second, there is a good chance there are multiple compilers available from different suppliers.   If all else fails, you may be able to port to a new text based language.   With LabView, you're not going to even review that code to think about how to port it.   

It comes down to trust.  Do I trust that the company will do the right thing, support the product, have a long term vision.   I lost all trust in National Instruments when they decided to extort their customer base and now, I just don't care.  You are correct, it did not happen overnight.  As I mentioned, there were signs they were having problems with management long before.   Now days I just warn people when asked about LabView and explain why I would never invest in it.

[xrunner]

All this talk reminded me I haven't used LabView for 20 years. But I did many projects in the lab with it in the 1990s even going to some classes in Austin. I just looked it up to see what's going on with it nowadays and see it was acquired by Emerson. Probably nothing like the same company anymore. 

[joeqsmith]

I started using it professionally with 3.0 and bought 5.0 for home use.  I used to be an avid supporter of LabView but their treatment of their customers over the last few years has completely undone what the company took decades to cultivate.     

It is interesting to hear from those who work in higher education who are removing it from their curriculum.   IMO, this makes perfect sense as I can't see many companies using it in the long term driving a demand for new talent. 

[abeyer]

Emerson didn't do anything good to them... but they'd put themselves in a pretty bad situation already by spending 10 years on trying to build the aborted NXG stuff that didn't even get supported for that long, and then going on an acquisitions spree buying other companies.

[ErnestB]

The topic focus shifted from nanoVNA PC software to LabView :-D Sorry for that.
When I was(am) talking and thinking about LabView I am talking about the way that platform works. It is a different way not many programming languages have.
So, management way and decisions apart, LabView is a nice tool to use (once you get to know it). It has for sure it's shortcomings, but very useful for the purpose we use it at our company (academic hospital research and innovation) to rather quickly build an working system (mostly data-acquisition, but also more complicated stuff like we build a "robotic setup for in the MRI" on Real-Time platform single board RIO that talks with a control PC through a long fiber connection). Their hardware is often more expensive then the others, but if we can build quickly at the end it saves money. So for "Lab purposes" data-acquisition, measurements, visualization, logging and automation it is a good tool. Most of us can work very quickly with is. In not time you can setup a measurement with their USB DAQ for instance.
You also have a direct and clear visual overview what is happening (the data flow) and the structure of your program. If you are disciplined and use a good structures and subVI's (smaller functional blocks packed together)  it can can get quite neat, and the schematics can almost be your documentation.
So yeah, management aside, LabView has potential. And maybe, if we think positive, maybe there will be another management one of these days :-)
But yes, for example C/C++ and Python are universal languages here to stay and less prone for the market and companies troubles and policies. With commercial companies is would always be a gamble. On the other hand the developments are going fast, so things we make today could easily be outdated "tomorrow" so to speak. And we see that with all other systems that are not compatible anymore and supported anymore. Nothing last forever.

[joeqsmith]

The topic focus shifted from nanoVNA PC software to LabView :-D Sorry for that.

No problem.  I don't mind steering people away from it. 

I would never consider using any of their products for something safety related (including LabView).  Guessing academic means no human testing, or at least alive humans.  I could certainly understand when your in college playing with tools like LabView may offer some excitement.   Once you leave college, you may find that time you invested in learning the tools was wasted but oh well.  I can think of worse things to spend time on in college.

We did have a thread talking about LabView.  Keeping in mind these posts are several years old. 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/advantagesdisadvantages-ni-labview-etc/