Why are tubes audio amplifiers so much better than transistors amplifiers ?

[py1dkw@yahoo.com]

Every music player prefer tube amplifiers and that is the main reason that they are still produced for audiophiles and guitar players, but the specifications are worse than transistor amplifiers! What is your opinion and which is the best tube for pushpull operation in your opinion? EL34, KT66, 5881, 6L6GC or another? I would appreciate hearing from you!

[IanB]

Hi-fi amps and guitar amps are totally opposite applications. Hi-fi amps are supposed to have low distortion, while guitar amps have distortion by design.

Tubes are good for guitar amps because they make "nice" distortion when overdriven, while transistor amps tend to distort badly (although they can easily be designed to replicate the tube effect when this is wanted).

In hi-fi amps, tubes may be desired because they can introduce a coloration to the sound that is liked by some people. Also, they look pretty, and can make a statement. Furthermore tube amps can be very expensive, which is also desirable in a hi-fi product.

[langwadt]

a lot of musician seem to have strange beliefs that anything that's old, obsolete,rare etc. have some magical quality that makes it sound better

[richnormand]

Q:
Why are tubes audio amplifiers so much better than transistors amplifiers ?
A:
They are not.
Q:
Why is this in the RF/microwave section ?
A:
Your microwave oven still has a tube but not at audio frequencies....
Look up third harmonic distortion and elegant overloading properties for audio...

[Roehrenonkel]

Hi py1dkw@yahoo.com,
 
....maybe because the people like to gather around the fire since ages? ;-))

2nd harmonics, soft overdrive (like analog reel-tapes), square- vs. e-function.....

If you insist on PP and can life with 17W than i propose the EL84 (6BQ5).

Best regards

[CaptDon]

Holy crap, may as well get a bunch of rednecks extremely drunk and ask which is a better truck Ford or Chevy? Push pull tube amps have a pleasing introduction of musically related even harmonics as they begin to enter into the non-linear range of operation. Transistor amplifiers tend to work right up to the supply rail voltages where they hard clip and flat top instantly creating odd order harmonics 'which absolutely suck' when heard by the human ear. And that in a nutshell is the tube/transistor preference story. As for choice of tubes, again only the listener can say what 'they' think sounds best. Dozens of similar tubes, many plug and play compatibles after bias adjustment and so many brands and internal changes by the same brand even without the 'A', 'B' or 'C' suffix. AND it really depends on the very amplifier you plug the tubes into!!! Brand X tubes sound great in a certain amp but suck in a different amp. There is no right or wrong, There is no better or worse, there is only "What sounds good to you"!!!

[vk4ffab]

Every music player prefer tube amplifiers

There is not a single application where I would prefer a tube amp over a transistor amp. Spent 20 years as a music professional doing everything from playing bass and drums, to front of house, side of stage and studio production for some big names in the music scene here back in my day LOL and there is not a single time when I went, you know what this needs, more tubes.

[radiolistener]

Tubes and transistors both have pros and cons.

For example, tubes allows to get better dynamic range, high power and they have pleasant harmonic distortions.
While transistors consume less power, more reliable and more linear frequency response.
Tubes consume a lot of power, they are heating a lot, they have short lifetime and high weight.
Transistors have low dynamic range, cannot handle very high power and have very unpleasant harmonic distortions, they can be easily damaged with static electricity.

So, you're needs to select what you want...

For exampel if you want to build 1 MW short wave high linear amplifier for AM transmitter, there is no choice for transistors, only tube can do that job.
But if you want ultra low power and compact device, there is no choice for tube, only transistors can do that job.

[CaptDon]

I think Nautel and perhaps Collins may have been hot on the trail of megawatt solid state transmitters using PWM and lots of smaller modules who's output loops were connected in series and you could even hot-swap modules. The need for such high power transmitters has diminished for all but the most wasteful spender of tax dollars, the military. With suppressed carrier or reduced carrier broadcasts transmitters have become more efficient and smaller for a given power level. We replaced an RCA BTA-5H and a Gates/Harris MW-5 with a gates solid state. Huge savings in power consumed by the transmitter and HUGE savings in the HVAC support system for the transmitter room. The solid state rigs just don't have the glowing WOW factor of the old RCA!! (except during lightning induced fires) It is also cheaper to maintain high gain rhombic directional arrays coupled to lower power transmitters. You can get the same E.R.P. but no longer omni-directional. You pick your target audience, their location, language and local time of day. Sadly, today, shortwave listening is a shadow of its former self with mostly religeous goobledygook coming from just a few sources. I miss the days of Radio Norway and Swiss Radio International. Its all on podcast now and big tube transmitters are going cold one by one.

[langwadt]

I think Nautel and perhaps Collins may have been hot on the trail of megawatt solid state transmitters using PWM and lots of smaller modules who's output loops were connected in series and you could even hot-swap modules. The need for such high power transmitters has diminished for all but the most wasteful spender of tax dollars, the military. With suppressed carrier or reduced carrier broadcasts transmitters have become more efficient and smaller for a given power level. We replaced an RCA BTA-5H and a Gates/Harris MW-5 with a gates solid state. Huge savings in power consumed by the transmitter and HUGE savings in the HVAC support system for the transmitter room. The solid state rigs just don't have the glowing WOW factor of the old RCA!! (except during lightning induced fires) It is also cheaper to maintain high gain rhombic directional arrays coupled to lower power transmitters. You can get the same E.R.P. but no longer omni-directional. You pick your target audience, their location, language and local time of day. Sadly, today, shortwave listening is a shadow of its former self with mostly religeous goobledygook coming from just a few sources. I miss the days of Radio Norway and Swiss Radio International. Its all on podcast now and big tube transmitters are going cold one by one.

https://www.nautelpower.com/solutions-high-power-solid-state-rf-amplifier/broadcast-solid-state-analog-digital-radio-transmitter/

[joeqsmith]

Every music player prefer tube amplifiers and that is the main reason that they are still produced for audiophiles and guitar players, but the specifications are worse than transistor amplifiers! What is your opinion and which is the best tube for pushpull operation in your opinion? EL34, KT66, 5881, 6L6GC or another? I would appreciate hearing from you!

Even as first time poster, I am surprised a human would start this thread in the RF subject area.  Maybe the AI bots need some adjustments. 

[fourfathom]

Every music player prefer tube amplifiers

There is not a single application where I would prefer a tube amp over a transistor amp. Spent 20 years as a music professional doing everything from playing bass and drums, to front of house, side of stage and studio production for some big names in the music scene here back in my day LOL and there is not a single time when I went, you know what this needs, more tubes.

Sure, bass and house sound work better with clean solid state amps, although some bass players still want a "tube sound".  But try telling a guitar player they can't use their Fender / Marshall / etc. tube amp.  Many are happy with emulators, but all of them play the amp as much as they play their guitar.

I used to play bass a lot.  But this was a bit of a click-bait thread title...

[tooki]

Every music player prefer tube amplifiers…

No ”every music player” does not. Some do, most do not care.

… and that is the main reason that they are still produced for audiophiles and guitar players, but the specifications are worse than transistor amplifiers! What is your opinion and which is the best tube for pushpull operation in your opinion? EL34, KT66, 5881, 6L6GC or another? I would appreciate hearing from you!

Guitar amps are a special case, since they’re often driven deliberately into distortion.

But I will share a secret with you: there exist musicians who don’t play electric guitar or bass! Shocking, but true! Some play other instruments, others make noises with their mouths (we call it “singing”). These people don’t play their amps into distortion, so they don’t need tube amps.

[10maurycy10]

Audio amps and guitar amps have quite different  requirements. An audio amplfier is designed to amplify the signal with minimal distortion and intermodulation, because any distortion will blend all the instruments together resulting in something best described as noise.  However, because they are designed for low distortion over as wide of a range as possible, when they do distort, they distort very sharply, creating harsh sounds.
Guitar amps are designed to gradually distort for artistic effect, and this is often done with tubes, but the same effect can be acheved with transistor amps.

The difference is not the amplifying component itself, but they way it is used in a circuit, to achieve different goals.
Anyone saying that tube amps are uniquely better is conflating intentional design decision with the technolgy itself.

[Grandchuck]

Is this Troll Bait?

[schmitt trigger]

With AC powered filaments, powerline hum is quite ubiquitous with tubed amps.
On many recordings, before the music starts one can listen to the hum. This is specially true on older live Rock recordings. Many from top bands playing legendary performances.

As such, hum is not considered a defect but actually a desirable feature. In the words of a musician acquaintance, it gives a “body” to the sound.
His words, not mine. But I do agree that hum provides a certain “classic rock” flavor to the music. I actually like it in small amounts.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Didn't some amps use DC filament voltage? To eliminate HUMMMMMMM?

[fourfathom]

Didn't some amps use DC filament voltage? To eliminate HUMMMMMMM?

Yes, but I don't think any guitar amps did.  And that hum you hear on live rock recordings is usually hum from the instrument pickups.  These are electromagnetic pickup coils under the steel strings.  Some guitars (often the Gibson "Les Paul" models) use "humbucker" pickups, which are wound or wired somehow to minimize sensitivity to external fields from house wiring and amplifier power transformers.

[vk4ffab]

Every music player prefer tube amplifiers

There is not a single application where I would prefer a tube amp over a transistor amp. Spent 20 years as a music professional doing everything from playing bass and drums, to front of house, side of stage and studio production for some big names in the music scene here back in my day LOL and there is not a single time when I went, you know what this needs, more tubes.

Sure, bass and house sound work better with clean solid state amps, although some bass players still want a "tube sound".  But try telling a guitar player they can't use their Fender / Marshall / etc. tube amp.  Many are happy with emulators, but all of them play the amp as much as they play their guitar.

I used to play bass a lot.  But this was a bit of a click-bait thread title...

Its funny hey, other than audiofoolery, guitar is the last bastion of the tube. Many bass amps are class D now, as are PA bins in line array systems. I wish we had Class D amps and switch mode supplies back in my day. A 1500w powered line array sub comes in under 50kq, a single S-Bin that we used weighted close to 120Kg and then you had the amp and cross over and its case as well.

Even in guitar amps I am not sure that tubes are better than anything else, but, there is a lot to be said for the Rickenbacker Marshal Stacker (LOL dating myself here quoting Sidewinder, Titanic of Days) having defined a sound many want to replicate. I think even here its more nostalgia that drives things than actually being "better". The number of times when recording I have left the cabinet out of the mix and just used the DI and the guitarist did not know any different kind of proves that point. Easy to do when they are using a bunch of digital effects and not the amps natural distortion. Essentially the tube amp became irrelevant to them the moment they started using digital effects, but they have the tube amp because that is what their hero used.

[fourfathom]

Yeah, I used to haul around my Fender Super Bassman (two pairs of 6L6GC tubes in the output section) and a 4x12" cabinet.  Heavy.  I sure like my little SWR practice amp with the 10" speaker (which can actually fill a good-size living room).  Of course I also have a 500W solid state amp and a 4x10" cabinet I can use when necessary.