Why there is no DIN sized HAM radio with car radio features yet?

[rvalente]

Hello mates,

one thing i've never understood well: Why no ham radio maker has ever made (AFAIK) a HAM radio with DIN car radio dimensions and with car radio features?

Lets say: VHF+UHF AM/FM receiver + usb + bluetooth

I see no difficulties in making all this, kenwood does both, HAM and CAR radios...

Its for me obvious there is a huge market, a lot of cars have ham radios installed and placing them is sometimes very complicated (specially in modern dashes)

Greetings

[madires]

DIN bays are becoming rare. Most modern cars have integrated infotainment systems which can't be simply replaced. However, some CB radios were designed for DIN bays or came with an optional DIN mounting kit.

[CJay]

There are some, mostly VHF/UHF, which are tiny and could be fitted in a DIN size slot with appropriate hardware and there are 10M (CB) radios which are designed to be DIN mounted.

It does seem silly of ham radio manufacturers to not make use of the form factor but I'd prefer something to hide away with a separation kit and removable head, I can afford to lose a car radio but not £650 worth of HF set...

[m3vuv]

another issue is that most radios are coded with the vehicles vin and talks to the ecu via canbus.

[CJay]

another issue is that most radios are coded with the vehicles vin and talks to the ecu via canbus.

It only really matters if it needs to talk to things like in dash displays or climate control stuff, other than that, you can pull most car stereos and throw in an aftermarket one with very little trouble.

[TheMG]

Here (Canada) I haven't seen any new vehicle made within the last 10 years with anything that even comes close to a DIN slot. They almost all have large touchscreen LCD displays (infotainment system as they call them), designed to integrate as seamlessly as possible with the rest of the dash which means the "radio" is usually not an all-in-one unit that can easily be removed, they often have some of the buttons/controls as part of the dash trim itself. It's not a standard form factor by any means.

Back when DIN sized car radios were a lot more common, I would assume that the technology had not miniaturized enough at that point to be able to cram all the car radio stuff (including the CD player mechanism which would have been important at the time) along with the two-way radio circuitry, particularly the RF PA and its heatsinking.

[CatalinaWOW]

I agree that OP has missed the market as DIN is a dying standard.  But the idea has merit.  In todays market it means a radio that can be tucked under a seat or somewhere and that is controlled through CAN and some software integrated into the existing dashboard electronics.  This would be tough unless the various people in this market (ham, stereo, video etc) could get together with the vehicle makers and design a common software interface.  Not out of the realms of possibility as it seems it could be a win for both the automakers and the aftermarket guys.

[ejeffrey]

Its for me obvious there is a huge market, a lot of cars have ham radios installed and placing them is sometimes very complicated (specially in modern dashes)

The intersection of ham radios and aftermarket DIN stereos in semi-modern cars is a tiny market.  It suspect would probably require a fair bit of development to make something that actually worked well as both a car stereo and ham radio.  The electronics part is easy, the integration is harder.  Not that it couldn't be done, but that is a lot of development to sink into something for a very niche market and that would have a good chance of failing even among the target market.

[fordem]

Here (Canada) I haven't seen any new vehicle made within the last 10 years with anything that even comes close to a DIN slot.

Have you tried looking behind the bezel?  Many of those infotainment systems sit in a "double DIN" slot and can be replaced with single or double DIN after market systems, replacement bezels are usually available to make it look like a factory installation.

[CatalinaWOW]

This might also be an opportunity for a smaller maker of cars to increase their sales.  An open interface to their dashboard electronics could create cult buyers of their automobiles.  I am not sure how large this market would be.  Opinions here vary from tiny to huge, and I personally lean toward the small end.  But it might be significant to someone other than a Toyota or Ford.  Suburu seems like a likely candidate.  The right mix of market share and off-beat marketing.

[james_s]

Here (Canada) I haven't seen any new vehicle made within the last 10 years with anything that even comes close to a DIN slot. They almost all have large touchscreen LCD displays (infotainment system as they call them), designed to integrate as seamlessly as possible with the rest of the dash which means the "radio" is usually not an all-in-one unit that can easily be removed, they often have some of the buttons/controls as part of the dash trim itself. It's not a standard form factor by any means.

Back when DIN sized car radios were a lot more common, I would assume that the technology had not miniaturized enough at that point to be able to cram all the car radio stuff (including the CD player mechanism which would have been important at the time) along with the two-way radio circuitry, particularly the RF PA and its heatsinking.

I loathe those infotainment systems. A car should last 15-20 years minimum and what a joke those systems are going to be after only 5-8 years. Try using an 8 year old smartphone or tablet today and see what I mean. The DIN standard existed for a reason, to make it easy to customize and install whatever head unit you want and upgrade it as needed over time. I really wish it would make a comeback.

[rvalente]

I agree, the majority of cars with custom infotainment systems still uses the double DIN formfactor for fitting.
I've replaced for a friend the honda OEM radio for a pioneer and he just had to buy the compatible framing which is integrated to the HVAC



If you take you basic FT1802 radio the bezel is 140x46 while the ISO/DIN car radio bay is 180x100, so there is plenty of room to fit the HAM radio and the music radio. Or the FT817/FT857 are all band radios in such a compact form factor.

The ability to have the HAM radio audio voice over the music on the car speakers would be such a amazing feature!

 

[CJay]

It wouldn't be difficult to add a Bluetooth adapter with an audio profile as an accessory for a radio, most of them have an audio output that's not affected by the volume control, you could then use the existing infotainment system, it may even be possible to develop a CAT control application for some.

*edit* actually, while it doesn't look easy to develop an app for CAT control, it does look like it'd be possible for someone with the relevant Android Auto coding skills to do it.

[TheMG]

Have you tried looking behind the bezel?  Many of those infotainment systems sit in a "double DIN" slot and can be replaced with single or double DIN after market systems, replacement bezels are usually available to make it look like a factory installation.

Not a large sample size but I did have a peek behind the bezel on a handful of vehicles model years 2015-2020 and the infotainment screen is definitely nothing even resembling a DIN form factor. Maybe you could have a custom bracket or something but the common theme is that there is relatively little depth behind the bezel, no more than about 15-20cm some vehicles even less as on some vehicles the screen is completely separate from the actual "radio" which is mounted under the dash.

Maybe the DIN standard is still somewhat common in other countries but on NA vehicle models it's going away real fast.

[CJay]

Have you tried looking behind the bezel?  Many of those infotainment systems sit in a "double DIN" slot and can be replaced with single or double DIN after market systems, replacement bezels are usually available to make it look like a factory installation.

Not a large sample size but I did have a peek behind the bezel on a handful of vehicles model years 2015-2020 and the infotainment screen is definitely nothing even resembling a DIN form factor. Maybe you could have a custom bracket or something but the common theme is that there is relatively little depth behind the bezel, no more than about 15-20cm some vehicles even less as on some vehicles the screen is completely separate from the actual "radio" which is mounted under the dash.

Maybe the DIN standard is still somewhat common in other countries but on NA vehicle models it's going away real fast.

The standard is behind a paywall but DIN format is 180x50mm front panel, double DIN is 180x100mm, depth doesn't seem to be defined but 20cm doesn't seem unreasonable given the size of the car stereos I've worked on.

[cdev]

Ham radio features dont get obsolete fast enough?

 Wouldn't want to waste the opportunity to sell a whole new car because ONE obviously obsoleted feature didnt make it look desirable to do so.

A few days ago I saw a video on YT that featured a video of a man in Northern England working pedestrian portable using an Alinco-DX-70. It looked like a nice little all band rig, looked at the ratings for it online and people seemed to like it a lot, especially the user interface.

It appears to no longer be in production, though. Maybe the new Alinco mobile rigs are similarly full featured yet simple to use.

[SpecialK]

I've yet to meet a ham that listens to music.  They do listen to AM radio right wing talk shows, whether they are right or left wing themselves.  Gets them really wound up so they can bitch later when in their shack.

I think a large part of being a ham is to wear your freak flag.  You want the license plate. You wouldn't want a discreet antenna or a radio that looks OEM.

I mean probably not universallly.  I'm sure you are a nice fellow.  It's probably only 95% of hams that give the rest a bad reputation.

[james_s]

Generalize much?

I'm a ham, I listen to music, I generally don't enjoy political talk, I'm pretty centrist and not very political in general. There are some hams out there that fit the description but I know a handful of them that don't. It's like any technical hobby though, it tends to attract a lot of people that are probably on the autistic spectrum and somewhat socially awkward.

[wizard69]

I'm pretty certain Sony had such a radio at one time.

[jh15]

No place in my Tesla model s, and the whole roof is glass, so no mag-mount. rest of the body is al-you-minium for you non yanks. besides, it's her car.
     the in driveway service mechanic, doing bi-annual brake caliper polishing service needed in New England states did show me all the places to hook in high power radio equipment though.

[cdev]

If I were a ham and wanted a mobile I would want a low key antenna that got out really well. Maybe a loop antenna concealed in some discreet plastic part. I'd get a radio with enough power to work dx.

BTW, I listen to music. A lot.

I've yet to meet a ham that listens to music.  They do listen to AM radio right wing talk shows, whether they are right or left wing themselves.  Gets them really wound up so they can bitch later when in their shack.

I think a large part of being a ham is to wear your freak flag.  You want the license plate. You wouldn't want a discreet antenna or a radio that looks OEM.

I mean probably not universallly.  I'm sure you are a nice fellow.  It's probably only 95% of hams that give the rest a bad reputation.

[M0HZH]

Ham radio manufacturers were about 20 years late to USB ports, touch screens, Bluetooth, WiFi or ... radio receiver technology. I feel they're about to discover DIN bays any day now.

I also predict charging handhelds via USB will be a big thing in 2030's. Who knows, by the end of the century they might even get modern looking websites.

[A.Z.]

Ham radio manufacturers were about 20 years late to USB ports, touch screens, Bluetooth, WiFi or ... radio receiver technology. I feel they're about to discover DIN bays any day now.

I also predict charging handhelds via USB will be a big thing in 2030's. Who knows, by the end of the century they might even get modern looking websites.

Well, given that a lot of "infotainment systems" aren't using DIN anymore, I think they won't even go there; on the other hand, since there already are a number of rigs with detachable front panel, offering just a front panel sized to be installed on a car dashboard could be doable, at that point the rig may seat inside the car trunk or somewhere off-of-view while the front panel, controlling it through some cable, may be installed on or near the dashboard

[M0HZH]

Or instead of a detacheable front panel, a Bluetooth (or WiFi) link and an app that runs on car infotainment systems like Android Automotive etc. /will never happen