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Products => Robotics and Automation => Topic started by: Yansi on September 06, 2021, 01:29:19 pm

Title: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: Yansi on September 06, 2021, 01:29:19 pm
Hello,

I have a bunch of old discarded PLC, that I would like to reuse to some projects. But I have absolutely no idea, where to start and what I need for it - which programming software,programming cables or other accessories and how to do it.

The PLCs in question is S7-300 and ET200S.  I have tried to do my research, but have not found much definitive info, as to what I need to program them or do anything with them. I have found out that in the past, some "STEP 7 Lite" software was used on the PC side to program them, unfortunately this software is obsolete and no longer available. The replacement should be "TIA portal" or whatever it is called. But it seems a whole lot of mess to a beginner, I have really no idea, where to look first.

So can anyone please point me to some manbual/tutorial, or simply write in short, what are the required tools to work with these?

Thank you for any hints, meanwhile, I will try to look further, if I can come up with anything. I have unforutenately no previous experience programming any Siemens PLCs, so am out of ideas.
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: krebacz on September 28, 2021, 05:48:41 pm
For S7 and ET200 you will need TIA portal. You can get trial directly from Siemens (you will have to register and confirm you're not violating any export bans)

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/109752566/simatic-step-7-and-wincc-v15-trial-download-?dti=0&lc=en-WW (https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/109752566/simatic-step-7-and-wincc-v15-trial-download-?dti=0&lc=en-WW)

The version you need is dependent on the FW revision of the PLC you are connecting to. If you are opening any ready made program you will need the exact version the program was made in (guaranteed to work) or higher (you can migrate but YMMV)
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: perieanuo on October 29, 2021, 04:19:48 pm
for this old 'coucous' (sorry that's french), the main itch is the "programming cable" something like this one https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Siemens-972-0CB20-0XA0-USB-MPI-USB-PPI/dp/B0761N94G5 (https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Siemens-972-0CB20-0XA0-USB-MPI-USB-PPI/dp/B0761N94G5)
then finding TIA portal is not something impossible
then learn ladder programming
that's all
for me, those old versions with those impossible proprietary cables drives me nuts. i tested some new one with ethernet, you connect it to your router, find him with some siemens tool, assign a new ip address and start programming.
but if you love it, buy the cable, imho it isn't worthy. for learning, buy a newer one and learn ladder or whatever you like as technique
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: Exosia on October 29, 2021, 04:53:44 pm
Offload them on ebay and buy a new PLC.
If you want to practice ladder, check the Unitronics free software https://www.unitronicsplc.com (https://www.unitronicsplc.com)
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: Yansi on November 01, 2021, 09:46:53 am
No programming cables needed, I have the ET200S version with profinet. (but the S7-300 unfortunately is with PB-DP, but I have seen some programming cables on aliexpress :D )

The most problem I see is with the TIA and licensing and getting it to work.  Where to locate the demo? I couldn't find any link to download anything. The best I could do is to register to see prices of the products  :scared:

Ladder? Meh.. boring stuff I am not afraid of (yet).
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: perieanuo on November 01, 2021, 11:18:09 am
No programming cables needed, I have the ET200S version with profinet. (but the S7-300 unfortunately is with PB-DP, but I have seen some programming cables on aliexpress :D )

The most problem I see is with the TIA and licensing and getting it to work.  Where to locate the demo? I couldn't find any link to download anything. The best I could do is to register to see prices of the products  :scared:

Ladder? Meh.. boring stuff I am not afraid of.
tia portal 16 is easy to find with vpn+tor+qbittorrent, then put that in virtualbox vm then start ladder'ing. what demo? get the full one. don't expect us to put the torrent links for you, we help but we don't do the job in your place...
putting up some good ladder can be trickier than you thing, you'll discover it on the route
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: elekorsi on November 01, 2021, 01:40:08 pm
You didn't write which S7-300 or ET200 you have. ET200S was mainly used as a remote I/O expansion, but ET200S CPU did also exist...
If you have only MPI/DP, then you will need USB A2 adapter https://mall.industry.siemens.com/mall/en/si/Catalog/Product/6GK1571-0BA00-0AA0
It's list price is 410€, so i don't think it's worth buying just for educational purposes. For the chinese versions i can't say anything as i never bought one...
You will probably not buy a TIA portal, as the price is really not for private users... With some googling you may find other options, which i wont post on this forum due to legal matters... Just a hint: Russia is your friend
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: wraper on November 01, 2021, 01:45:15 pm
Just a hint: Russia is your friend
Yeah, you can get full versions of software for free, no issue with that.
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: Yansi on November 03, 2021, 11:53:52 am
You didn't write which S7-300 or ET200 you have. ET200S was mainly used as a remote I/O expansion, but ET200S CPU did also exist...
If you have only MPI/DP, then you will need USB A2 adapter https://mall.industry.siemens.com/mall/en/si/Catalog/Product/6GK1571-0BA00-0AA0
It's list price is 410€, so i don't think it's worth buying just for educational purposes. For the chinese versions i can't say anything as i never bought one...
You will probably not buy a TIA portal, as the price is really not for private users... With some googling you may find other options, which i wont post on this forum due to legal matters... Just a hint: Russia is your friend

ET200S is all that I remember written on it, when I will be back home, I will note down the whole siemens part numbers. But I think I have the CPU versions, they are equipped with the proprietary "SD cards" to hold programs (or what those are used for).  Fortunately I do have a few of those cards too, their price is also beyond ridiculous.

I'll have a look east direction when I find the time for it, for the TIA, thanks. Currently this is a low priority.
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: elekorsi on November 03, 2021, 12:27:40 pm
I forgot to add... If you have bunch of them, maybe it would be better to try to sell them via ebay and buy something else (as someone allready suggested). I would strongly suggest some other platform for the begginer, but if you really want to go with Siemens, S7-1200 series is not that expensive... 1214C costs less than USB interface for old S7-300 which have no ethernet...
For example:
S7-1212C (8DO, 6DO, up to 2 signal modules expansion) - 248€
S7-1214C (14DI, 10DO, up to 8 signal modules expansion) - 375€
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: Yansi on November 03, 2021, 03:47:08 pm
Any S7 (with profinet) will have the same TIA licensing "problem". Doesn't matter if the 1200 series, or the ET200S or whatever else. I see no point in buying new. What great features will I get from buying a poor S7-1200 brick, that I won't have with ET200S? Yes, I know its old. But still profinet. Still widely used in the industry.
But I agree the S7-300 with ProfiBus is ancient stuff, better get rid of it. That one I could change for S7-1200  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: elekorsi on November 04, 2021, 06:54:05 am
Well, i wouldn't call a S7-1200 "poor brick", it is relatively capable, better than many old 300s that are installed. We made quite a few projects with the 1200s, where the 1500 would be a bit overkill. It is great for machine building applications, last time i used it for the machine with around 110 I/O's. You even have an F version for the fail-safe applications (no more safety relays)...
S7-300 is of course still widely used, but not really for new projects. Those will be around for quite some time, as there are hundreds of millions systems around the world on the 300 platform.

I don't know where are you from, but in my part of the world, Siemens is de facto standard in the automation world. If you want to go into automation waters, you must look at what is most widelly used system in your area. For me Siemens is the first platform of PLCs that you must start with if you want to get serious... But for a hobby i wouldn't recommend it, mainly due to it's price...
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: Yansi on November 04, 2021, 11:32:05 am
It depends on company. You can't say Siemens is the go-to vendor of PLCs. We have plenty of local plants using Siemens, but I know also plenty that do use other brands like Rockwell, WAGO or Phoenix Contact. It may even be project-based - depending who won the contract.
In the end yes, Siemens has probably the mjority of installations in large plants.

For hobby, there are definitely cheap and cheaper solutions. But I am more interested in the pro stuff. But not really just for hobby, but for the occasional contract or two. To learn some new options and possibilities.

Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: elekorsi on November 05, 2021, 03:50:26 pm
I just noticed, that they have also S7-1200 starter kits, which includes Tia portal Basic (don't know what basic is) and optional HMI... Maybe worth a look if you want legal version of Tia...
But still... Russia is much cheaper  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone experienced with S7-300 or ET200S programming? Pls help a n00b
Post by: Vtile on November 07, 2021, 07:05:53 pm
For these S7-300 and S7-400 PLCs there have been some free 3rd party dev-tools. Search with STEP7 not S7.

These classic CPUs are not that ancient, not by standard features or round times or programming features (as Siemens interpretation of standard is in use at both) etc.

Just don't format those SD-cards in a whim they contain hidden system information.