Author Topic: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project  (Read 3408161 times)

Feliciano and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Feliciano

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Country: ve
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7125 on: September 27, 2021, 01:23:28 am »
To compare these measurements against a generic DMM measurements it would be arguable, to say the least. The comparison against bench/professional meters has already been done by the developers and other supporters, and that's way they have come with several recommendations on this thread and the user manuals, and some improvements on the firmware.

To make a summary of those, IIRC, the accuracy of a component tester depends on a)the Voltage regulator precision (5%, 1%, etc.), b)the Voltage reference presicion (which should have 10x times the precision of the Voltage regulator, or be removed, and configured accordingly in the firmware), the frequency of the crystal (deppending on what you're measuring), and other factors such as whether the device has been calibrated the way is being used, and even whether is being powered from a clean steady DC voltage, or something with more or less ripple.

Bottomline, the accuracy/repeatability of the measurements can vary from one device to another.

 
The following users thanked this post: Obelix2007, Vitaly_Ne

Offline Yuriy_K

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7126 on: September 27, 2021, 11:28:26 am »
....And now the question - What is considered the correct reading for a given capacitor?
Yes, all readings are correct.
You and everyone else.
Before correcting something, you need to conduct a thorough analysis of the measurements themselves. I am attaching a photo of the capacitors and graphs comparing the real capacitance measured by MS 5308 - according to the rest of X and the readings of Ttester - blue and UT61E - red. Hopefully it is clear that you cannot set the correction value in the ranges indicated by the red arrows. By adjusting the correction in these drop-down ranges, you automatically increase the readings of all other measurements. Obviously, it is necessary to have several high-quality (polymer) capacitors in a wide range and to choose a correction value based on the minimum deviation from their true value.
 

Offline Vitaly_Ne

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 27
  • Country: ru
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7127 on: September 27, 2021, 05:00:08 pm »
...Before correcting something, you need to conduct a thorough analysis of the measurements themselves...
When multiple measurements are taken, some of the readings (which are out of range) can often be ignored. In such measurements, it seems to me that the main thing is to understand in "+" or in "-", on average, the tendency is observed.

In general, the google translator probably did not quite correctly translate my request.
The point was that I want to check whether the range for correction will expand, if we make an amendment to the file before compilation.
I repeat, now you can only correct up to -2%.
And I just wanted to check whether it is possible to programmatically expand the adjustment range, or if it is generally possible to do so ...
There are no complaints about the firmware, I just need to check my copy of the tester ...
 

Offline Yuriy_K

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7128 on: September 28, 2021, 01:55:59 am »
I repeat, now you can only correct up to -2%.
On my Ttesters, the correction 2.8-3.2 is set for correct readings, as a result, we have a margin of about 5% in both directions. This amendment is used in more than one place in the source texts and is associated with displacement. I'm not going to change anything. There is a need, experiment yourself ...
 
The following users thanked this post: Vitaly_Ne

Offline Vitaly_Ne

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 27
  • Country: ru
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7129 on: September 28, 2021, 11:25:52 am »
...There is a need, experiment yourself ...
There are nuances. There was a desire to check with your modified files, and not with the original ones. But since they are not freely available, that's why I asked you to correct them yourself.
But in any case, the question is closed.
I checked on the original ones - I can't add more (-2%) to the file. I tried and (-5%) bet, it still resets to (-2%).
so you won't be able to make amendments smaller (-2%) without editing the code elsewhere.
Thank you for your answers and clarifications.
 

Offline anwfeb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: id
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7130 on: September 28, 2021, 11:48:59 am »
I have a rarely used M644 Tester that will not power on.  Can't see well enough o figure it out and even if I did I'm not set up for surface mount soldering.  Anyone out there that would check it out for me?

Bill

... for this topic I had a contribution in the forum:

https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/transistortester-avr?reply_to=6439712#postform

contribution-TIME 14.10.2020 06:18

This are the GOOGLE-TRANSLATE:

Wilhelm K. wrote:
> How did you unsolder it?

Hello Wilhelm,

first I separate the solder pins directly on the TQFP housing with a
Carpet knife off. Now I can remove the pin scraps from every single PAD
unsolder. Then comes the removal of the excess solder
from the pads using end braid. Then clean with appropriate
Solvent, fix the Mega644 first with a corner pin and
align carefully, then solder on the opposite pin,
now there are only 42 left.

Then I removed the 8-pin U4 using the same method and
there the one made beforehand on a small piece of breadboard
2Transistor solution of the TC-1-MOD from Markus connected.

Before working on the controller, however, I first have the start button
away. Its solder points on the board are the right distance
for the rotary pushbuttons already known from other clones. The
Rotary encoder still needs a small 1mm hole for its GND connection
for which there is already a marking in the right place on the circuit board
is available. Next there must be a conductor path from the button connection to the
Encoder connection are severed and the other
Encoder connector on the front and back of its circuit board
respective 4 thin ground connections are released.

A 1kOhm resistor each leads from the encoder connections to the VCC
Connection and a 10kOhm to the control pins of the controller (PB5; Pin1 and
PB6; Pin2).

In addition, I have an opening for three in the side of the case
further connections are provided that connect the output (PD4; Pin13) of the
Frequency generator or PWM generator, the input for the
Frequency measurement (PB0; Pin40) and a GND connection are available
represents.

Greetings Horst

P.S. I have not (yet) exchanged the voltage regulators.

Hi.. can anyone explain about this R15 and C19 modification? I just saw this mod how can you explain what the function of this change is, what is the recommended resistor and capacitor size?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 11:53:54 am by anwfeb »
 

Offline Yuriy_K

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7131 on: September 28, 2021, 01:07:48 pm »
Hi.. can anyone explain about this R15 and C19 modification? I just saw this mod how can you explain what the function of this change is, what is the recommended resistor and capacitor size?
See the end of page 276 in my post for the Hiland diagram. These details are for auto-calibrating the capacity, but this must be written in the config ...
 

Offline anwfeb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: id
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7132 on: September 28, 2021, 02:03:58 pm »
Hi.. can anyone explain about this R15 and C19 modification? I just saw this mod how can you explain what the function of this change is, what is the recommended resistor and capacitor size?
See the end of page 276 in my post for the Hiland diagram. These details are for auto-calibrating the capacity, but this must be written in the config ...

yes, I have seen your schematic on page 267, the capacitor was changed to 229nf and the resistor written was 470k ohm the same as the original resistor, but in the mod picture, the smd resistor was connected in parallel with the film resistor, then removed the original capacitor and replaced it with a 220nf wima
 

Offline Yuriy_K

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7133 on: September 28, 2021, 02:47:32 pm »
yes, I have seen your schematic on page 267, the capacitor was changed to 229nf and the resistor written was 470k ohm the same as the original resistor, but in the mod picture, the smd resistor was connected in parallel with the film resistor, then removed the original capacitor and replaced it with a 220nf wima
Why are these changes? It is easier to leave it as it was, but to register the necessary settings in the config file.
 
The following users thanked this post: anwfeb

Offline anwfeb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: id
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7134 on: September 28, 2021, 03:33:00 pm »
yes, I have seen your schematic on page 267, the capacitor was changed to 229nf and the resistor written was 470k ohm the same as the original resistor, but in the mod picture, the smd resistor was connected in parallel with the film resistor, then removed the original capacitor and replaced it with a 220nf wima
Why are these changes? It is easier to leave it as it was, but to register the necessary settings in the config file.

Yes, I just saw in the post, I thought this change was for the purpose of better refinement, if it turns out to be the same as the default size of the T7 scheme then I keep the authenticity. It's good enough now I'm using it and with your firmware mod, Thanks Yuriy_K
 

Offline Obelix2007

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: de
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7135 on: September 29, 2021, 09:09:04 pm »
I have a rarely used M644 Tester that will not power on.  Can't see well enough o figure it out and even if I did I'm not set up for surface mount soldering.  Anyone out there that would check it out for me?

Bill

... for this topic I had a contribution in the forum:

https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/transistortester-avr?reply_to=6439712#postform

contribution-TIME 14.10.2020 06:18

This are the GOOGLE-TRANSLATE:

Wilhelm K. wrote:
> How did you unsolder it?

Hello Wilhelm,

first I separate the solder pins directly on the TQFP housing with a
Carpet knife off. Now I can remove the pin scraps from every single PAD
unsolder. Then comes the removal of the excess solder
from the pads using end braid. Then clean with appropriate
Solvent, fix the Mega644 first with a corner pin and
align carefully, then solder on the opposite pin,
now there are only 42 left.

Then I removed the 8-pin U4 using the same method and
there the one made beforehand on a small piece of breadboard
2Transistor solution of the TC-1-MOD from Markus connected.

Before working on the controller, however, I first have the start button
away. Its solder points on the board are the right distance
for the rotary pushbuttons already known from other clones. The
Rotary encoder still needs a small 1mm hole for its GND connection
for which there is already a marking in the right place on the circuit board
is available. Next there must be a conductor path from the button connection to the
Encoder connection are severed and the other
Encoder connector on the front and back of its circuit board
respective 4 thin ground connections are released.

A 1kOhm resistor each leads from the encoder connections to the VCC
Connection and a 10kOhm to the control pins of the controller (PB5; Pin1 and
PB6; Pin2).

In addition, I have an opening for three in the side of the case
further connections are provided that connect the output (PD4; Pin13) of the
Frequency generator or PWM generator, the input for the
Frequency measurement (PB0; Pin40) and a GND connection are available
represents.

Greetings Horst

P.S. I have not (yet) exchanged the voltage regulators.

Hi.. can anyone explain about this R15 and C19 modification? I just saw this mod how can you explain what the function of this change is, what is the recommended resistor and capacitor size?

The reason for the modifications to my "Multi-function Tester-TC1 -T7 -T7-H" was a problem with my TT-Hiland644. So I looked for other TT clones with Mega644. In the WWW there were references to the multi-function testers with Mega644 MCU.

After buying these testers, however, I discovered that they all had a Mega324 MCU.

So I installed the 644 MCU in the TC-1 and T7 and the 1284 MCU in the T7-H. On this occasion I also attached a ROTARY ENCODER, SPI interface and 3 additional sockets for frequency input and output.

However, the actual hFE problem has not yet been resolved.

Incidentally, the additional resistor in parallel with R15 was a bug and has been removed. C19 is always exchanged for a 220nF foil capacitor, if only because the original ceramic capacitor in all clones that I own was smaller than 100nF. The advantages of the foil capacitors at this point are explained by Karl-Heinz and Markus in their documentation.

Greetings Horst
 

Offline ilcaccillo

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: pt
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7136 on: September 29, 2021, 11:20:52 pm »
Does anyone know at which Frequency is Inductance tested with this unit?

thank you so much
 

Offline madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7695
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7137 on: September 30, 2021, 11:23:22 am »
No AC test signal - no frequency. ;) The inductance measurement is based on i_L(t) = I_0 * (1 - e^(-t R / L)). The SamplingADC is a different story, the LC meter hardware option too.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 11:25:51 am by madires »
 

Offline anwfeb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: id
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7138 on: September 30, 2021, 02:11:15 pm »

The reason for the modifications to my "Multi-function Tester-TC1 -T7 -T7-H" was a problem with my TT-Hiland644. So I looked for other TT clones with Mega644. In the WWW there were references to the multi-function testers with Mega644 MCU.

After buying these testers, however, I discovered that they all had a Mega324 MCU.

So I installed the 644 MCU in the TC-1 and T7 and the 1284 MCU in the T7-H. On this occasion I also attached a ROTARY ENCODER, SPI interface and 3 additional sockets for frequency input and output.

However, the actual hFE problem has not yet been resolved.

Incidentally, the additional resistor in parallel with R15 was a bug and has been removed. C19 is always exchanged for a 220nF foil capacitor, if only because the original ceramic capacitor in all clones that I own was smaller than 100nF. The advantages of the foil capacitors at this point are explained by Karl-Heinz and Markus in their documentation.

Greetings Horst

and if when replacing C19 with 220nf should also change the config for the firmware?

Another question about frequency, I use T7 gen 1 maybe the same as TC1 only the difference is in STEP UP without a transformer, I use STRIP GRID 7 configuration, is the wire frequency IN on PD4 and OUT Generator on PB0? I saw hiland644 they added 74HCxxxx

and T7 without components 74HCxxxx the IN-F and OUT-G frequencies will work for  T7  ?
 

Offline Obelix2007

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: de
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7139 on: October 01, 2021, 12:13:09 am »
and if when replacing C19 with 220nf should also change the config for the firmware?

Another question about frequency, I use T7 gen 1 maybe the same as TC1 only the difference is in STEP UP without a transformer, I use STRIP GRID 7 configuration, is the wire frequency IN on PD4 and OUT Generator on PB0? I saw hiland644 they added 74HCxxxx

and T7 without components 74HCxxxx the IN-F and OUT-G frequencies will work for  T7  ?

... changing from C19 does not require any changes to the firmware.

Yes, the frequency IN connection goes to PD4 (pin 13) and the f-generator OUT connection to PB0 (pin 40).

The T7 does not use any 74HCxxxx components. In the HilandM644 an extended Frequency and crystal measurements carried out.

Greetings Horst
 

Offline ilcaccillo

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: pt
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7140 on: October 01, 2021, 02:12:48 am »
No AC test signal - no frequency. ;) The inductance measurement is based on i_L(t) = I_0 * (1 - e^(-t R / L)). The SamplingADC is a different story, the LC meter hardware option too.

Hi mate,
thank you so much for the reply and info.

Do you think it's possible or do you have the patience to explain that in other words so an ignorant (not knowledgeable) person like me could understand?

Thank you so much Madires
 

Offline anwfeb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: id
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7141 on: October 01, 2021, 02:24:26 am »
and if when replacing C19 with 220nf should also change the config for the firmware?

Another question about frequency, I use T7 gen 1 maybe the same as TC1 only the difference is in STEP UP without a transformer, I use STRIP GRID 7 configuration, is the wire frequency IN on PD4 and OUT Generator on PB0? I saw hiland644 they added 74HCxxxx

and T7 without components 74HCxxxx the IN-F and OUT-G frequencies will work for  T7  ?

... changing from C19 does not require any changes to the firmware.

Yes, the frequency IN connection goes to PD4 (pin 13) and the f-generator OUT connection to PB0 (pin 40).

The T7 does not use any 74HCxxxx components. In the HilandM644 an extended Frequency and crystal measurements carried out.

Greetings Horst


I have replaced the C19 with 220nf, then I did a calibration (selftest). for the measurement results in my opinion to be inappropriate in T7. capacitor 470nf result 504nf, 4.7uf result 5.2uf, for 10uf result 11.376uf, and 22uf result 24,211uf.

I haven't tried other components, but these measurements don't fit my T7
 

Offline madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7695
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7142 on: October 01, 2021, 10:43:51 am »
Do you think it's possible or do you have the patience to explain that in other words so an ignorant (not knowledgeable) person like me could understand?

There's a chapter about the inductance measurement (also for the SamplingADC method) in Karl-Heinz' excellent documentation. And for the m-firmware you can find an explanation in inductance.c. It's boring physics. ;D Or see any suitable physics book/text/webpage about inductance.
 

Offline anwfeb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: id
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7143 on: October 01, 2021, 02:27:16 pm »
and if when replacing C19 with 220nf should also change the config for the firmware?

Another question about frequency, I use T7 gen 1 maybe the same as TC1 only the difference is in STEP UP without a transformer, I use STRIP GRID 7 configuration, is the wire frequency IN on PD4 and OUT Generator on PB0? I saw hiland644 they added 74HCxxxx

and T7 without components 74HCxxxx the IN-F and OUT-G frequencies will work for  T7  ?

... changing from C19 does not require any changes to the firmware.

Yes, the frequency IN connection goes to PD4 (pin 13) and the f-generator OUT connection to PB0 (pin 40).

The T7 does not use any 74HCxxxx components. In the HilandM644 an extended Frequency and crystal measurements carried out.

Greetings Horst

for the "k" version I see when the frequency counter and receive a signal >50kHz then the screen display becomes 816.XXX kHZ must divide 16, I see in hiland644 there is a component 74HCxxxx and switch jumper for 1/16 and it's not there for T7, if you try then you will see this on firmware version "k" and I've tried on version "m" it doesn't require 1/16 in frequency counter options.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 02:31:17 pm by anwfeb »
 

Offline Obelix2007

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: de
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7144 on: October 02, 2021, 08:33:02 am »
for the "k" version I see when the frequency counter and receive a signal >50kHz then the screen display becomes 816.XXX kHZ must divide 16, I see in hiland644 there is a component 74HCxxxx and switch jumper for 1/16 and it's not there for T7, if you try then you will see this on firmware version "k" and I've tried on version "m" it doesn't require 1/16 in frequency counter options.

Hello anwfeb,

You are absolutely right, the k-firmware for TC-1 and T7 (M644) can test all components, including crystals, but the frequency measurement is always from a 16 to 1 prescaler from which these devices (TC-1, T7) do not is available. This is a mistake!

If you want to measure frequencies, use the m-firmware, which works, but cannot measure crystals and the display flickers a little.

Greetings Horst
 

Offline madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7695
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7145 on: October 02, 2021, 01:43:10 pm »
Have you tried to enable WITH_FREQUENCY_DIVIDER in the Makefile (add: CFLAGS += -DWITH_FREQUENCY_DIVIDER)? That should add a menu to select the prescaler. Another way could be to tweak the frequency counter section in autoconf.h (set USE_FREQ to 1, and USE_HFREQ/USE_H_CRYSTAL/USE_L_CRYSTAL to 0). The k-firmware's setup of the basic and extended frequency counter options is a little bit awkward. It assumes that an ATmega644 based tester comes with the extended counter option (hence the default 16:1 prescaler).
 

Offline Obelix2007

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: de
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7146 on: October 02, 2021, 04:14:07 pm »
Hi Markus,

I just tested your suggested changes:

Neither "CFLAGS + = -DWITH_FREQUENCY_DIVIDER" alone,
still "set USE_FREQ to 1, and USE_HFREQ / USE_H_CRYSTAL / USE_L_CRYSTAL to 0" alone,
Both measures together still lead to the desired result.

As before, the first measurement is always correct, after that the multiplication by 16 is always carried out.

Even the old firmware versions all have this behavior, I never noticed it at the time because I probably always tested with lower frequencies <20 kHz.

Greetings Horst
 

Offline madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7695
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7147 on: October 02, 2021, 07:59:38 pm »
Thanks for testing! The change to the 16:1 prescaler is caused by the auto-ranging. If that happens despite USE_HFREQ being set to 0 then it might be a bug.
 

Offline Vitaly_Ne

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 27
  • Country: ru
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7148 on: October 02, 2021, 08:24:04 pm »
...Besides the voltage divider there's also an offset, e.g. by a reverse polarity protection diode or the PNP power switch. The offset can be set via BAT_OUT (k-firmware: Makefile), or BAT_OFFSET (m-firmware: config.h). And the voltage divider can be changed too: BAT_NUMERATOR and BAT_DENOMINATOR (k-firmware: Makefile), or BAT_R1 and BAT_R2 (m-firmware: config.h).

Hi, My display shows overestimated voltage !?
In reality, for example 8.303V (battery 2S2P- 8.4V), and the display shows 8.45V ...
I measured the 10k / 3.3K divider - in reality I have 9.996k / 3.300k, i.e. I think it's okay.
To correct the readings in the "#define BAT_OFFSET 290" parameter (config.h, 1.44 m-firmware) do I need to correct the readings in "+" or "-"? The difference I have is ~ 0.15V (150mV), i.e. To register ~ 140 or ~ 430, is the amendment indicated in the mV in the same place?
Or is it better to correct in the divisor "BAT_R1 and BAT_R2"?
Will these corrections only affect the display or will they also affect other measurements?
---------------------------
Sorted it out like. I put 150 and the voltage more or less began to coincide. The measurements did not seem to have changed either.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 03:46:03 am by Vitaly_Ne »
 

Offline anwfeb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: id
Re: $20 LCR ESR Transistor checker project
« Reply #7149 on: October 03, 2021, 03:12:38 am »
Hi Markus,

I just tested your suggested changes:

Neither "CFLAGS + = -DWITH_FREQUENCY_DIVIDER" alone,
still "set USE_FREQ to 1, and USE_HFREQ / USE_H_CRYSTAL / USE_L_CRYSTAL to 0" alone,
Both measures together still lead to the desired result.

As before, the first measurement is always correct, after that the multiplication by 16 is always carried out.

Even the old firmware versions all have this behavior, I never noticed it at the time because I probably always tested with lower frequencies <20 kHz.

Greetings Horst

Yes, you are right. the first 1 - 2 seconds displays the correct result, then the next second displays the incorrect calculation (result*16) which is displayed on the screen. I didn't test if this bug exists on hiland644 because they have an extra component for frequency.

For the "m" version I have tested the frequency on the T7 and it works fine, no bugs in the frequency counter, but this version does not have a crystal check feature.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 03:14:32 am by anwfeb »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf