Author Topic: $475 in funds  (Read 14182 times)

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Offline android

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2015, 12:08:29 pm »
+ $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer
I realise not everyone can afford altruism, but I think people should at least consider buying a genuine Saleae. It's not as if they are a multinational company that won't miss the cash. I think they're a couple of talented guys who are worthy of our support. Just sayin'...   :)
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Offline mos6502

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2015, 12:15:17 pm »
+ $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer
I realise not everyone can afford altruism, but I think people should at least consider buying a genuine Saleae. It's not as if they are a multinational company that won't miss the cash. I think they're a couple of talented guys who are worthy of our support. Just sayin'...   :)

That would make sense if you used the Saleae software. But you can just as well use sigrok:

« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 12:17:14 pm by mos6502 »
for(;;);
 

Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2015, 05:16:41 pm »
+ $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer
I realise not everyone can afford altruism, but I think people should at least consider buying a genuine Saleae. It's not as if they are a multinational company that won't miss the cash. I think they're a couple of talented guys who are worthy of our support. Just sayin'...   :)

That would make sense if you used the Saleae software. But you can just as well use sigrok:


Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.

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Offline mos6502

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2015, 05:25:40 pm »
Quote from: Daniel_Reyes
Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.

http://sigrok.org/wiki/Downloads  ;)
for(;;);
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2015, 07:09:16 pm »
Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.
But you didn't search google?
 

Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2015, 07:14:14 pm »
Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.
But you didn't search google?
No, I'm pretty busy at work so it was a quick search. I thought it was a piece of hardware, not software.

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Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2015, 08:02:16 pm »
Did the student price on the analog discovery go up recently? I had it in my head that it was $99.

Yeah it was $99. There used to be 3 prices - regular, academic, and student. Looks like the student price is gone. $159 is still a bargain IMO though..

I wonder if this changes has to do with Digilent being bought by NI?

Probably. The new discovery2 NI version will most likely have the same pattern. 199 normal and ?? educational. (before vat)

To the OP: maybe you can find a used 1054z even, I think it will be hard to beat its value for money.

Did you do this month's "trigger challenge" ?(Google it, Keysight promo every month until summer(?) 2016)
What do i need to qualify for student discount? So it's $159? A new one is coming out? Is it expected to be much better?

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Offline ez24

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2015, 08:52:21 pm »
Quote
What do i need to qualify for student discount?

I believe an email address with .edu at the end of it, like johndoe@mit.edu

then they will send you a link to that address.  They may do a Google search on the school.

Some get real tough and request that an email from a professor be sent to them.

How about we talk Dave into starting "EEVBlog University" ?  I am sure there would be volunteers to help run it.  Maybe all that is needed is an email address  ie    @eevblog.edu

I think our first professor should be Prof. Chris C

I think some of our names might not go over however, like Prof. Deathwish
 :-DD
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Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2015, 09:19:13 pm »
Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?

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Offline forrestc

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2015, 03:01:25 am »
I bought one then from Microchip Direct for US$219. It is still US$219
https://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=TDGL023

Darn I wish I knew about this a Month ago, it was on the Microchip Masters conference discounted price list at $153.30.  Even if for the pattern generator and network analyzer parts.  I'm going to put it on the short list for next year.




 

Offline eas

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2015, 06:16:09 am »
Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?

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Is there a reason you doubt the spec/feature list?
 

Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2015, 10:16:42 am »
Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?

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Is there a reason you doubt the spec/feature list?
Wasn't sure if it was primitive functionality compared to a dedicated logic analyzer.

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Offline Fungus

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2015, 10:25:46 am »
Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?
At Arduino speeds? Sure.

The Analog Discovery isn't a very good oscilloscope (only 5Mhz bandwidth) but it can do a lot of other stuff. It's sort of a bus pirate plus Saleae plus Oscilloscope all in one. As a learning aid it's very useful. Once you've outgrown the tutorials though, it's not much use as general purpose 'test gear'.

I'd rather have a bus pirate plus a DS1054Z. A good oscilloscope really is worth it's weight in gold for EE work.

PS: For Arduino work I wouldn't get too hung up on the logic analyzer part. A DS1054Z can also decode I2C, SPI, RS232, etc. Maybe not as well as a Saleae, but it can do it. Four channels will cover almost everything you're likely to do with an Arduino.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2015, 10:30:02 am »
Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?
Is there a reason you doubt the spec/feature list?
Wasn't sure if it was primitive functionality compared to a dedicated logic analyzer.

Yes, but is logic analysis the only thing you want to do?

Sometimes you need a real time display of your signals. Saleae, etc., don't do that, you have to press 'record', do your thing then look at the signals later. That's a show stopper to me.

I'm not sure if the Analog Discovery has real time, high-speed display or not.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2015, 10:53:36 am »
Let me give you an example of when you NEED a logic analyzer:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/

There's people on here hacking devices which have multiple internal data buses (usually SPI/I2C). The buses go between the CPU and memory chips, etc. You need quite a few logic channels for that.

They want to power it on and record all those buses for one minute then figure out what's going on. How is the CPU checking the license status, etc. For this part you need a big screen, mouse and keyboard.

To do this you NEED a logic analyzer. A DS1054Z is useless.

Are you going to be doing stuff like that?
 

Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2015, 11:02:17 am »
The way my mind works, i work on anything and everything.  I don't see electronics as a constrained subject just as woodworking or knife sharpening isn't as well. It's all part of the same subject of learning about life. In that sense, I'm more interested in expanding the capability of what I can do from home in whatever way possible. Whatever gives me the most bang for my buck. I don't know what my mind will be interested in tomorrow but I do know I don't want to have to put projects on hold for lack of test equipment or parts. Currently, I'm thinking,  a dedicated logic analyzer, 2500x microscope, blood pressure and blood sugar monitor and 3d printer bed size upgrades. 

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Offline Fungus

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2015, 12:05:25 pm »
The way my mind works, i work on anything and everything.  I don't see electronics as a constrained subject just as woodworking or knife sharpening isn't as well. It's all part of the same subject of learning about life. In that sense, I'm more interested in expanding the capability of what I can do from home in whatever way possible.
That's why a DS1054Z is much better than a dedicated logic analyzer. A logic analyzer has a very specific purpose, it only does one thing.

(Yeah, I know a DS1054Z is nearly all your budget and you want a microscope, etc. as well.)

PS:

 http://www.eevblog.com/2014/01/07/eevblog-566-cheap-usb-microscope-reviews/

http://www.eevblog.com/2014/03/15/eevblog-590-diyinhk-usb-soldering-microscope-review-tagarno-fhd-zip/

(etc - Dave's done a few microscope reviews).
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 12:46:04 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2015, 12:22:27 pm »
Well my supervisor is going to let me borrow the art of electronics book so that saves me $100 right there. Maybe I could try for the ds1054z, usb microscope and logic analyzer. I think I can feel good about money being spent on that.

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Offline mtdoc

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2015, 12:04:07 am »

The Analog Discovery isn't a very good oscilloscope (only 5Mhz bandwidth) but it can do a lot of other stuff. It's sort of a bus pirate plus Saleae plus Oscilloscope all in one. As a learning aid it's very useful. Once you've outgrown the tutorials though, it's not much use as general purpose 'test gear'.


Just as an FYI, the -3dB bandwidth of the AD is over  20MHz.  (stupid marketing decision to advertise it as 5Mhz IMO - see page 16 of the technical manual for more info I can attest that with the BNC adapter and real probes it is very usable at 20Mhz.

I agree it is not substitute for a "real oscilloscope" but no USB scope is IMO.  That said, the usefulness of the AD extends way beyond the tutorial as you say.

I have a lab in my basement with a Rigol DS2072 and several analog scopes as well as other assorted test gear. Yet for many projects - such breadboarding, or debugging an arduino, MSP 430 or other MCU project - I use the AD at teh desk in my home and find it pefectly adequate for those kind of projects. Also, e the network analyzer is very useful and not something duplicated in my lab by a seperate instrument.

For the academic or even full price, I think the AD is a great purchase that most will find useful even once they graduate to full fledged instruments.

Hey, maybe Digilent needs to put me on the payroll of their marketing dept.... ;D
 

Offline Daniel_Reyes

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2015, 09:44:55 pm »
So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional. Is it 399 with the logic analyzer? How much more does the logic analyzer cost if not?

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Offline gyrfalcon16

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2015, 02:30:06 am »
I'm surprised no one mentioned it so here it is:
http://artofelectronics.net/
Best $100 you'll ever spend and save the rest for later.

Yeah...there is plenty of free stuff on the internet, but there is a lot of crap too.

I'd rather see this on someone's shelf instead of an overpriced canary looking volmeter.
It's on my wishlist. Good up vote! I will take another look at getting it. Will i be able to understand it? Or is it overly technical?

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http://iate.oac.uncor.edu/~manuel/libros/ElectroMagnetism/The%20Art%20of%20Electronics%20-%20Horowitz%20&%20Hill.pdf
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2015, 07:51:21 am »
So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional.
Yes.

Is it 399 with the logic analyzer?
No.

How much more does the logic analyzer cost if not?
The MSO1074Z is about $1000
 

Offline forrestc

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2015, 09:10:39 am »
So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional.
Yes.

Is this accurate?   I was under the impression that the DS1054Z hardware by itself would do logic analysis on the analog channels - so you effectively get a 4 channel logic anlayzer.

Yes, you need the MSO if you want the 16 port logic inputs, but that is different than analysis.

Oh, and serial decode appears to be a software option on the DS1000Z, not sure if it's included on the MSO.   Note that I am not making a statement either way as to how you would want to enable this software option.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2015, 09:32:52 am »
So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional.

Depends what you mean by "logic analyzer". The MSO version has an extra connector on the front and extra button(s). You'd have to replace the entire front panel to upgrade it.

I was under the impression that the DS1054Z hardware by itself would do logic analysis on the analog channels - so you effectively get a 4 channel logic anlayzer.

"Serial decoder" is an unlockable software option, yes.

It can decode serial data (SPI, I2C, RS232). It can't decode parallel data like the MSO version can.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 04:37:08 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: $475 in funds
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2015, 01:32:09 pm »

The Analog Discovery isn't a very good oscilloscope (only 5Mhz bandwidth) but it can do a lot of other stuff. It's sort of a bus pirate plus Saleae plus Oscilloscope all in one. As a learning aid it's very useful. Once you've outgrown the tutorials though, it's not much use as general purpose 'test gear'.


Just as an FYI, the -3dB bandwidth of the AD is over  20MHz.  (stupid marketing decision to advertise it as 5Mhz IMO - see page 16 of the technical manual for more info I can attest that with the BNC adapter and real probes it is very usable at 20Mhz.

I agree it is not substitute for a "real oscilloscope" but no USB scope is IMO.  That said, the usefulness of the AD extends way beyond the tutorial as you say.

I have a lab in my basement with a Rigol DS2072 and several analog scopes as well as other assorted test gear. Yet for many projects - such breadboarding, or debugging an arduino, MSP 430 or other MCU project - I use the AD at teh desk in my home and find it pefectly adequate for those kind of projects. Also, e the network analyzer is very useful and not something duplicated in my lab by a seperate instrument.

For the academic or even full price, I think the AD is a great purchase that most will find useful even once they graduate to full fledged instruments.

Hey, maybe Digilent needs to put me on the payroll of their marketing dept.... ;D

Absoutely agreed on all points, in fact I measured the 3dB point at about 30MHz with the BNC adapter. Also although it's only 100MSa/s, that is 100MSa/s per channel, it's not split between channels when both are on.

My use case for this device is for debugging when travelling. Somewhere I have a picture of it on a tray table on a plane while debugging a board, although typically I keep the spaghetti hidden away in a cardboard box off to the side to avoid attention. More likely I'll be in a coffee shop somewhere in between appointments.

For me a key reason why this is such a good product is the software which is reliable, super fast and well designed. Yes, there are limitations, but I'd rather have a slick reliable interface to deal with than a buggy stuttering half finished over featured bug infested UI. A second reason is that you have almost all you need on the road to do embedded development integrated into a small package.

I doubt that the student price even covers the BoM cost, it's a marketing tool for AD and Digilent to get their names out there.
 


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