EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Daniel_Reyes on September 08, 2015, 11:59:39 pm
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My wife just cleared me to buy $475 worth of test equipment in a month and a half. I am an electronics technician with an associates degree and have decided to go back to school to school to get my bachelors in EE. I currently have a 0-3A 0-32vdc linear power supply, a 200khz bandwidth dso scope. A variable soldering iron, hot air rework station, a 25mhz cheap sig gen and a 3d printer and a cheap multi meter. I am currently in math classes online so I have not been able to build much with my gear lately but i fully expect to put it to good use when i start attending a brick and mortar school full time next year.
My main question is how to get the most value for my money and most capability. I was originally planning on getting a rigol ds1054z but when i was looking at the fully populated display, i realized i have a long way to go before id use all those features. I frequently look to ebay and see old but good scopes for less that may meet my needs. The question is how to best spend this money.
-Dan
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The question is how to best spend this money.
$475 in parts to build and experiment with. You'll have a lot more fun with that.
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Agree with Brad!
Also consider Arduino and related boards... you get to learn microprocessor programming, and integrate some electronics know how too.
Buy some kits to assemble!
Filling shelves and shelves with new test equipment doesn't make you learn electronics.
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A prototyping board and the parts you find you actually need on the way while doing the degree, as time passes you may need to revise your DSO requirements (perhaps a really cheap ebay ds1052 etc might turn up!), but the rest of the gear you have should be fine for the start, maybe another cheap DMM unless you start doing power electronics then maybe not to a cheap meter 'quality wise'. So basically wait and see what the course really needs.
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Understood. I do have an arduino i forgot to mention and a good supply of throughhole parts. Sorry i forgot to mention that. And i have put together about 4 kits this year that i really enjoyed.
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Edited double post.
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Also agreeing with Brad. If you are going to a brick and mortar they will have all the equipment you will need to complete your classes. Of course you don't get to take it home with you, but if you really want some equipment to experiment on your own I would at least wait until you have completed some of your classes to maybe give you a better idea of what equipment you really want.
In my time at college going for an EE the only piece of equipment I bought because I needed was a cheap $60 PSU, and thats only because I over engineered a finals project my junior year. That and the school was reimbursing us up to $100 dollars for the parts we bought for the project and I had plenty left over. I honestly was expecting them to reject the PSU expenditure but I guess they didn't really look at the receipts.
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Understood. I will do as you all say. I appreciate the advice!
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I'm surprised no one mentioned it so here it is:
http://artofelectronics.net/ (http://artofelectronics.net/)
Best $100 you'll ever spend and save the rest for later.
Yeah...there is plenty of free stuff on the internet, but there is a lot of crap too.
I'd rather see this on someone's shelf instead of an overpriced canary looking volmeter.
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I'm surprised no one mentioned it so here it is:
http://artofelectronics.net/ (http://artofelectronics.net/)
Best $100 you'll ever spend and save the rest for later.
Yeah...there is plenty of free stuff on the internet, but there is a lot of crap too.
I'd rather see this on someone's shelf instead of an overpriced canary looking volmeter.
It's on my wishlist. Good up vote! I will take another look at getting it. Will i be able to understand it? Or is it overly technical?
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In regards to reading material do not forget
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/)
and
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/)
I like meters that use AA batteries
In your budget maybe a Wavetek (I cannot see your country writing this) used function generator and a discounted 1054
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A second multimeter is nice to have so you can measure current and voltage at the same time. Other than that, I think you have a good list of gear and could benefit most from using the money to pick up parts to play around with.
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So do you think that you are most interested in analog electronics or micro-controller stuff? Think about your first project first.
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I like both equally at the moment. I support analog uhf and vhf radios at my current job so i have respect for both sides.
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I think I would consider this:
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY (http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY)
get the BNC adapter board and have a look at the other options.
If you can get it at the student price, that leaves lots left over. A cheap multimeter is OK, but it is much better to have another to do sanity checks. I can suggest a number: Amprobe AM270, Amprobe AM530 or one of the other in the line, Uni-T UT139C, Brymen BM257s, etc.
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You didn't say which brick and mortar place you are going. In many, perhaps most, you will be so busy doing theory that you will have little time for your home lab. That said, it is good to have this, and keep doing stuff there to remind yourself why you are in school. What it is you love besides the big paycheck you are hoping for at the end.
It appears to me that you have more than enough already to keep yourself entertained in those rare free moments. University, maintaining a relationship with your spouse and possibly even trying to bring in a little income all at once is quite a bit for most folks to keep up with.
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I think I would consider this:
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY (http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY)
get the BNC adapter board and have a look at the other options.
Yep, Double :-+ :-+ for the Analog discovery, BNC adapter board and a couple of cheap eBay probes- especially at the student price.
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Did the student price on the analog discovery go up recently? I had it in my head that it was $99.
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Did the student price on the analog discovery go up recently? I had it in my head that it was $99.
Yeah it was $99. There used to be 3 prices - regular, academic, and student. Looks like the student price is gone. $159 is still a bargain IMO though..
I wonder if this changes has to do with Digilent being bought by NI?
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Did the student price on the analog discovery go up recently? I had it in my head that it was $99.
Yeah it was $99. There used to be 3 prices - regular, academic, and student. Looks like the student price is gone. $159 is still a bargain IMO though..
I wonder if this changes has to do with Digilent being bought by NI?
Probably. The new discovery2 NI version will most likely have the same pattern. 199 normal and ?? educational. (before vat)
To the OP: maybe you can find a used 1054z even, I think it will be hard to beat its value for money.
Did you do this month's "trigger challenge" ?(Google it, Keysight promo every month until summer(?) 2016)
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DS1054Z + DE 5000 LCR meter + $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer. Plus maybe, if you have some cash left over, a UT139C.
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DS1054Z + DE 5000 LCR meter + $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer. Plus maybe, if you have some cash left over, a UT139C.
Would a "bus pirate" be a suitable substitute for the saleae clone logic analyzer?
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Would a "bus pirate" be a suitable substitute for the saleae clone logic analyzer?
Haven't used the Bus Pirate yet, but I understand it's primarily for sending and receiving data in various serial protocols. Not really intended for capturing multiple, arbitrary digital signals. The creator of the Bus Pirate also has a separate logic analyzer design, if that's any indication.
The nice thing about the Saleae is not only that it captures signals, but has software intelligent enough to decode common protocols.
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DS1054Z + DE 5000 LCR meter + $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer. Plus maybe, if you have some cash left over, a UT139C.
Would a "bus pirate" be a suitable substitute for the saleae clone logic analyzer?
They're not really the same beast. Bus Pirate is more of a communications device - use it to communicate with things + control them.
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Sounds good. I will definitely get the logic analyzer then.
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+ $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer
I realise not everyone can afford altruism, but I think people should at least consider buying a genuine Saleae. It's not as if they are a multinational company that won't miss the cash. I think they're a couple of talented guys who are worthy of our support. Just sayin'... :)
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+ $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer
I realise not everyone can afford altruism, but I think people should at least consider buying a genuine Saleae. It's not as if they are a multinational company that won't miss the cash. I think they're a couple of talented guys who are worthy of our support. Just sayin'... :)
That would make sense if you used the Saleae software. But you can just as well use sigrok:
(http://www.sigrok.org/blog/sites/default/files/pv_win_usb_packet_example.png)
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+ $10 Saleae clone logic analyzer
I realise not everyone can afford altruism, but I think people should at least consider buying a genuine Saleae. It's not as if they are a multinational company that won't miss the cash. I think they're a couple of talented guys who are worthy of our support. Just sayin'... :)
That would make sense if you used the Saleae software. But you can just as well use sigrok:
(http://www.sigrok.org/blog/sites/default/files/pv_win_usb_packet_example.png)
Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.
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Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.
http://sigrok.org/wiki/Downloads (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Downloads) ;)
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Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.
But you didn't search google?
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Sigrok? I searched ebay and amazon but didn't find anything.
But you didn't search google?
No, I'm pretty busy at work so it was a quick search. I thought it was a piece of hardware, not software.
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Did the student price on the analog discovery go up recently? I had it in my head that it was $99.
Yeah it was $99. There used to be 3 prices - regular, academic, and student. Looks like the student price is gone. $159 is still a bargain IMO though..
I wonder if this changes has to do with Digilent being bought by NI?
Probably. The new discovery2 NI version will most likely have the same pattern. 199 normal and ?? educational. (before vat)
To the OP: maybe you can find a used 1054z even, I think it will be hard to beat its value for money.
Did you do this month's "trigger challenge" ?(Google it, Keysight promo every month until summer(?) 2016)
What do i need to qualify for student discount? So it's $159? A new one is coming out? Is it expected to be much better?
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What do i need to qualify for student discount?
I believe an email address with .edu at the end of it, like johndoe@mit.edu
then they will send you a link to that address. They may do a Google search on the school.
Some get real tough and request that an email from a professor be sent to them.
How about we talk Dave into starting "EEVBlog University" ? I am sure there would be volunteers to help run it. Maybe all that is needed is an email address ie @eevblog.edu
I think our first professor should be Prof. Chris C
I think some of our names might not go over however, like Prof. Deathwish
:-DD
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Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?
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I bought one then from Microchip Direct for US$219. It is still US$219
https://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=TDGL023 (https://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=TDGL023)
Darn I wish I knew about this a Month ago, it was on the Microchip Masters conference discounted price list at $153.30. Even if for the pattern generator and network analyzer parts. I'm going to put it on the short list for next year.
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Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?
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Is there a reason you doubt the spec/feature list?
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Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?
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Is there a reason you doubt the spec/feature list?
Wasn't sure if it was primitive functionality compared to a dedicated logic analyzer.
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Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?
At Arduino speeds? Sure.
The Analog Discovery isn't a very good oscilloscope (only 5Mhz bandwidth) but it can do a lot of other stuff. It's sort of a bus pirate plus Saleae plus Oscilloscope all in one. As a learning aid it's very useful. Once you've outgrown the tutorials though, it's not much use as general purpose 'test gear'.
I'd rather have a bus pirate plus a DS1054Z. A good oscilloscope really is worth it's weight in gold for EE work.
PS: For Arduino work I wouldn't get too hung up on the logic analyzer part. A DS1054Z can also decode I2C, SPI, RS232, etc. Maybe not as well as a Saleae, but it can do it. Four channels will cover almost everything you're likely to do with an Arduino.
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Could I use analog discovery as a logic analyzer?
Is there a reason you doubt the spec/feature list?
Wasn't sure if it was primitive functionality compared to a dedicated logic analyzer.
Yes, but is logic analysis the only thing you want to do?
Sometimes you need a real time display of your signals. Saleae, etc., don't do that, you have to press 'record', do your thing then look at the signals later. That's a show stopper to me.
I'm not sure if the Analog Discovery has real time, high-speed display or not.
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Let me give you an example of when you NEED a logic analyzer:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/)
There's people on here hacking devices which have multiple internal data buses (usually SPI/I2C). The buses go between the CPU and memory chips, etc. You need quite a few logic channels for that.
They want to power it on and record all those buses for one minute then figure out what's going on. How is the CPU checking the license status, etc. For this part you need a big screen, mouse and keyboard.
To do this you NEED a logic analyzer. A DS1054Z is useless.
Are you going to be doing stuff like that?
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The way my mind works, i work on anything and everything. I don't see electronics as a constrained subject just as woodworking or knife sharpening isn't as well. It's all part of the same subject of learning about life. In that sense, I'm more interested in expanding the capability of what I can do from home in whatever way possible. Whatever gives me the most bang for my buck. I don't know what my mind will be interested in tomorrow but I do know I don't want to have to put projects on hold for lack of test equipment or parts. Currently, I'm thinking, a dedicated logic analyzer, 2500x microscope, blood pressure and blood sugar monitor and 3d printer bed size upgrades.
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The way my mind works, i work on anything and everything. I don't see electronics as a constrained subject just as woodworking or knife sharpening isn't as well. It's all part of the same subject of learning about life. In that sense, I'm more interested in expanding the capability of what I can do from home in whatever way possible.
That's why a DS1054Z is much better than a dedicated logic analyzer. A logic analyzer has a very specific purpose, it only does one thing.
(Yeah, I know a DS1054Z is nearly all your budget and you want a microscope, etc. as well.)
PS:
http://www.eevblog.com/2014/01/07/eevblog-566-cheap-usb-microscope-reviews/ (http://www.eevblog.com/2014/01/07/eevblog-566-cheap-usb-microscope-reviews/)
http://www.eevblog.com/2014/03/15/eevblog-590-diyinhk-usb-soldering-microscope-review-tagarno-fhd-zip/ (http://www.eevblog.com/2014/03/15/eevblog-590-diyinhk-usb-soldering-microscope-review-tagarno-fhd-zip/)
(etc - Dave's done a few microscope reviews).
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Well my supervisor is going to let me borrow the art of electronics book so that saves me $100 right there. Maybe I could try for the ds1054z, usb microscope and logic analyzer. I think I can feel good about money being spent on that.
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The Analog Discovery isn't a very good oscilloscope (only 5Mhz bandwidth) but it can do a lot of other stuff. It's sort of a bus pirate plus Saleae plus Oscilloscope all in one. As a learning aid it's very useful. Once you've outgrown the tutorials though, it's not much use as general purpose 'test gear'.
Just as an FYI, the -3dB bandwidth of the AD is over 20MHz. (stupid marketing decision to advertise it as 5Mhz IMO - see page 16 of the technical manual for more info (http://www.digilentinc.com/Data/Products/ANALOG-DISCOVERY/Discovery_TRM_RevC_1.pdf) I can attest that with the BNC adapter and real probes it is very usable at 20Mhz.
I agree it is not substitute for a "real oscilloscope" but no USB scope is IMO. That said, the usefulness of the AD extends way beyond the tutorial as you say.
I have a lab in my basement with a Rigol DS2072 and several analog scopes as well as other assorted test gear. Yet for many projects - such breadboarding, or debugging an arduino, MSP 430 or other MCU project - I use the AD at teh desk in my home and find it pefectly adequate for those kind of projects. Also, e the network analyzer is very useful and not something duplicated in my lab by a seperate instrument.
For the academic or even full price, I think the AD is a great purchase that most will find useful even once they graduate to full fledged instruments.
Hey, maybe Digilent needs to put me on the payroll of their marketing dept.... ;D
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So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional. Is it 399 with the logic analyzer? How much more does the logic analyzer cost if not?
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I'm surprised no one mentioned it so here it is:
http://artofelectronics.net/ (http://artofelectronics.net/)
Best $100 you'll ever spend and save the rest for later.
Yeah...there is plenty of free stuff on the internet, but there is a lot of crap too.
I'd rather see this on someone's shelf instead of an overpriced canary looking volmeter.
It's on my wishlist. Good up vote! I will take another look at getting it. Will i be able to understand it? Or is it overly technical?
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http://iate.oac.uncor.edu/~manuel/libros/ElectroMagnetism/The%20Art%20of%20Electronics%20-%20Horowitz%20&%20Hill.pdf (http://iate.oac.uncor.edu/~manuel/libros/ElectroMagnetism/The%20Art%20of%20Electronics%20-%20Horowitz%20&%20Hill.pdf)
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So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional.
Yes.
Is it 399 with the logic analyzer?
No.
How much more does the logic analyzer cost if not?
The MSO1074Z is about $1000
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So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional.
Yes.
Is this accurate? I was under the impression that the DS1054Z hardware by itself would do logic analysis on the analog channels - so you effectively get a 4 channel logic anlayzer.
Yes, you need the MSO if you want the 16 port logic inputs, but that is different than analysis.
Oh, and serial decode appears to be a software option on the DS1000Z, not sure if it's included on the MSO. Note that I am not making a statement either way as to how you would want to enable this software option.
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So I've been looking into the ds1054z more and it says the logic analyzer is optional.
Depends what you mean by "logic analyzer". The MSO version has an extra connector on the front and extra button(s). You'd have to replace the entire front panel to upgrade it.
I was under the impression that the DS1054Z hardware by itself would do logic analysis on the analog channels - so you effectively get a 4 channel logic anlayzer.
"Serial decoder" is an unlockable software option, yes.
It can decode serial data (SPI, I2C, RS232). It can't decode parallel data like the MSO version can.
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The Analog Discovery isn't a very good oscilloscope (only 5Mhz bandwidth) but it can do a lot of other stuff. It's sort of a bus pirate plus Saleae plus Oscilloscope all in one. As a learning aid it's very useful. Once you've outgrown the tutorials though, it's not much use as general purpose 'test gear'.
Just as an FYI, the -3dB bandwidth of the AD is over 20MHz. (stupid marketing decision to advertise it as 5Mhz IMO - see page 16 of the technical manual for more info (http://www.digilentinc.com/Data/Products/ANALOG-DISCOVERY/Discovery_TRM_RevC_1.pdf) I can attest that with the BNC adapter and real probes it is very usable at 20Mhz.
I agree it is not substitute for a "real oscilloscope" but no USB scope is IMO. That said, the usefulness of the AD extends way beyond the tutorial as you say.
I have a lab in my basement with a Rigol DS2072 and several analog scopes as well as other assorted test gear. Yet for many projects - such breadboarding, or debugging an arduino, MSP 430 or other MCU project - I use the AD at teh desk in my home and find it pefectly adequate for those kind of projects. Also, e the network analyzer is very useful and not something duplicated in my lab by a seperate instrument.
For the academic or even full price, I think the AD is a great purchase that most will find useful even once they graduate to full fledged instruments.
Hey, maybe Digilent needs to put me on the payroll of their marketing dept.... ;D
Absoutely agreed on all points, in fact I measured the 3dB point at about 30MHz with the BNC adapter. Also although it's only 100MSa/s, that is 100MSa/s per channel, it's not split between channels when both are on.
My use case for this device is for debugging when travelling. Somewhere I have a picture of it on a tray table on a plane while debugging a board, although typically I keep the spaghetti hidden away in a cardboard box off to the side to avoid attention. More likely I'll be in a coffee shop somewhere in between appointments.
For me a key reason why this is such a good product is the software which is reliable, super fast and well designed. Yes, there are limitations, but I'd rather have a slick reliable interface to deal with than a buggy stuttering half finished over featured bug infested UI. A second reason is that you have almost all you need on the road to do embedded development integrated into a small package.
I doubt that the student price even covers the BoM cost, it's a marketing tool for AD and Digilent to get their names out there.
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the usefulness of the AD extends way beyond the tutorial as you say.
For me a key reason why this is such a good product is the software which is reliable, super fast and well designed. Yes, there are limitations, but I'd rather have a slick reliable interface to deal with than a buggy stuttering half finished over featured bug infested UI. A second reason is that you have almost all you need on the road to do embedded development integrated into a small package.
I doubt that the student price even covers the BoM cost, it's a marketing tool for AD and Digilent to get their names out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aymumu3mYl8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aymumu3mYl8)
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/30/9ce30fbe1fbf3818eca8122f7bc49895.jpg)
Thank you everyone! I am super excited with the decision I made :) I ended up getting a saelae logic analyzer as well and a bunch of little sensors and parts so I think it went well overall. Thank you for everyone's advice! I feel like I will get a lot from these guys. :)
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My wife just cleared me to buy $475 worth of test equipment in a month and a half.
So how did you pull off spending more money, looks like you went way over the $475.
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My wife just cleared me to buy $475 worth of test equipment in a month and a half.
So how did you pull off spending more money, looks like you went way over the $475.
Flipped something that turned a $1500 profit and the wife said i could go up to $100 over my original estimate. Good catch! ;)
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Flipped something that turned a $1500 profit and the wife said i could go up to $100 over my original estimate. Good catch! ;)
How funny - so she got $1400 and you $100 - more than I would have gotten :palm:)
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Flipped something that turned a $1500 profit and the wife said i could go up to $100 over my original estimate. Good catch! ;)
How funny - so she got $1400 and you $100 - more than I would have gotten [emoji14]alm:)
Seriously! ! And somehow i still have a smile on my face! Lol. ;) she's using some kind of magic on me. [emoji14]
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(waves hand slowly) "These are not the dollars you are looking for...."
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(waves hand slowly) "These are not the dollars you are looking for...."
Hahaha!!
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