$5000 Electronics Lab Challenge

[Howardlong]

Forget the spectrum analyzer right off the top, buying a new SA that might be worth a damned on a good day when the sunshine was just the right shade of white would take too much of that 5K.

I'd agree about an SA. They're the most under utilised pieces of equipment in my lab, and I just made a count and have five of them, from 1.5GHz to 22GHz. The two VNAs I have get quite a bit more use than the SAs.

Agreed but for someone starting out, I really don't think so, not even someone who wantts to dedicate their life to doing RF work. I have seen wet behind the ears techs do a few Killobucks worth of damage simply because they are not displined enough to look before applying power.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting he OP go out and buy a VNA as opposed to an SA, just that an SA risks being little more than an expensive ornament on the average hobbyist's bench. I can see them being switched on once or twice, and then what? Equally a VNA is of no value to someone tinkering with Arduinos. If you're reasonably into RF, then yes, there is some value to an SA, but in that case I'd go for a VNA before an SA. Even then, I guarantee it'll still be collecting dust most of the time. I think a lot of people buy SAs thinking they'll use them for finding interesting things in the RF spectrum. Well they're generally fairly deaf by RF standards, and have very limited demodulation options if any. You'd be a lot better off with an SDR, and in an lot of cases you can use an SDR to do things you might traditionally use an SA for, and they're a lot cheaper..

[ivaylo]

Quick list of bottom low prices without shipping (negotiable in US, since about only 20-50$)
HP-3456A : 50$ (get a bunch of broken ones and fix f them)          => 200$
Tek-7904A: 80$ + lots of pugins for it 250$                                     => 320$
HP-E3617A: 80$ (get a few, like 3)                                                  => 240$
HP-8568B:  600$ (get a second 8566B RF section for 400$)           =>1000$
HP-3585A:  600$ (B version with signal tracking cost more          =>600$
HP-8662/8663: 1200$ (get each of em, parts are exchangeable)   => 1200$
HP-3326A: 200$ (really cool LF synthesizer)                                   => 200$
Tek TM500 with function gen plugins: 350$                                     => 350$
HP-8005A :80$  (external trigger by 5359A for accurate timing)     => 80$
HP-5359A : 250$                                                                             => 250$
Generic cheap soldering iron                                                            => 50$
Set of good tweezers                                                                        => 100$
Cheap solder sucker                                                                         => 5$
Aoyue 952 hot air gun                                                                      => 80$

So far 4575$ and a really good lab for start, but you must know how to repair stuff of learn it by doing.

Quickly fill it to 5000$

HP-16500B/C with 16532A/16557D:                                                =>350$
EIP-545A LF/RF counter (maybe with RF power meter)                    =>180$

I thought the question was about $5K max, not 5 tons min 

[crispy_tofu]

$50 soldering irons are really expensive... 

[AF6LJ]

$50 soldering irons are really expensive... 

I guess if you are use to using a hot brick to solder in those small parts than fifty dollars is rather costly....
I just spent just shy of a hundred dollars for a new handpiece for my Weller station. But... that is a real soldering station, not a piece of Crap from Radio Shack.

[nctnico]

I agree. A good soldering station costs serious money (count on $200) and there is no cheap way around it!

[Rupunzell]

These funds would be better spent on education. Items like books, learning materials and related parts, classes and fixing older test gear is a GREAT way to learn. Taking on simply projects that are lab useful like making power supply from scratch as a start gives experience with how to design, build, making it function and fully understanding how to test and understand the design's limitations are extremely valuable lessons that are far more valuable than bench of shiny new test gear.

IMO, it is a serious mistake to simply dump all those funds into new test gear without a full understanding of how they work, how to get the very best an most out of them and all the related details of making accurate useful measurements and properly utilizing the data created.

Keep in mind, many of the great achievements in science and technology were done with rather basic instrumentation. When the required instrumentation or experimental device was not available, it was designed, built and made to fit the needs of the task required. Get to a place where this is achievable, focus less on the colorful techno widgets as they can be distractions to effective results.


Bernice

You're misunderstanding what I wrote. I have plenty of ideas for projects, but there is no point in thinking about these ideas further until I have a functioning lab. No I'm not an EE, so the other half of this is having all equipment necessary to teach myself. When you were in school you had a school lab full of equipment to play on, I'm merely trying to replicate that experience.

[DimitriP]

I agree. A good soldering station costs serious money (count on $200) and there is no cheap way around it!

Cheapest way around a soldering station is to not buy one.
Not only you save money, but you save lots of time not trying to figure out which one to buy
, not  worrying if you should have bought something else instead, not to mention being able to skip the endless threads on soldering stations and soldering tips ...


 


 

[AF6LJ]

I agree. A good soldering station costs serious money (count on $200) and there is no cheap way around it!

Cheapest way around a soldering station is to not buy one.
Not only you save money, but you save lots of time not trying to figure out which one to buy
, not  worrying if you should have bought something else instead, not to mention being able to skip the endless threads on soldering stations and soldering tips ...

I worked as a technician for 21 years, I never had to supply my own soldering / desoldering station, it was always provided. It was a good way to find out what was best for my needs.
I DID have to supply my own tools for all but one job. That job they issued me a tool box with some rather high end handtools in it. Nice Swiss made pliers and cutters, Snap-On screw drivers that matched the hardware I was going to be using them on, super nice tweezers the whole nine yards in a tackle sized tin box. There was $800.00 worth of hand tools in that box. It ruined me...
When I went to work in two way radio, the Snap-On Man got a cut of every one of my paychecks.

[DimitriP]

I agree. A good soldering station costs serious money (count on $200) and there is no cheap way around it!

Cheapest way around a soldering station is to not buy one.
Not only you save money, but you save lots of time not trying to figure out which one to buy
, not  worrying if you should have bought something else instead, not to mention being able to skip the endless threads on soldering stations and soldering tips ...

I worked as a technician for 21 years, I never had to supply my own soldering / desoldering station, it was always provided. It was a good way to find out what was best for my needs.
I DID have to supply my own tools for all but one job. That job they issued me a tool box with some rather high end handtools in it. Nice Swiss made pliers and cutters, Snap-On screw drivers that matched the hardware I was going to be using them on, super nice tweezers the whole nine yards in a tackle sized tin box. There was $800.00 worth of hand tools in that box. It ruined me...
When I went to work in two way radio, the Snap-On Man got a cut of every one of my paychecks.

Having  clipped component leads with nail clippers and drilled holes in aluminum with scissors..... everything else is a bonus!

[ECEdesign]

I am also in the process of starting a lab for projects but at the 2k level through a grant.  I posted another thread a bit ago to get some ideas which was really helpful.  My preliminary list consists of:
Rigol DS1054Z Scope
Rigol DP832 Power supply
Siglent SDG1025 Function Gen
Keysight U1272A DMM
Ayoue Rework Station

I have a digital Velleman VTSSC70AU soldering iron, not Hakko but seems to work pretty well.

I have thought about getting a used HP/Agilent Bench meter.

My big question is what kind of cables and adapters are the most helpful.  I am just starting as an ECE student so its hard to know what exactly ill need.

My thoughts are some Banana to mini grabber, Banana to BNC, BNC-BNC.  I already have plenty of alligator leads and breadboard stuff.  Should I get some mini/micro grabbers or other?  What cables do you use the most often?

[nctnico]

Regarding cables: I have a bunch of 4mm banana cables (Hirschmann with silicone rubber) and BNC cables with thin RG316 coax. The BNC cables are cheap from Ebay and I also cut many of them to solder them directly to circuits. Furthermore I keep a healthy stock of 4mm banana binding posts and panel jacks for connecting things together.

[AF6LJ]

I agree. A good soldering station costs serious money (count on $200) and there is no cheap way around it!

Cheapest way around a soldering station is to not buy one.
Not only you save money, but you save lots of time not trying to figure out which one to buy
, not  worrying if you should have bought something else instead, not to mention being able to skip the endless threads on soldering stations and soldering tips ...

I worked as a technician for 21 years, I never had to supply my own soldering / desoldering station, it was always provided. It was a good way to find out what was best for my needs.
I DID have to supply my own tools for all but one job. That job they issued me a tool box with some rather high end handtools in it. Nice Swiss made pliers and cutters, Snap-On screw drivers that matched the hardware I was going to be using them on, super nice tweezers the whole nine yards in a tackle sized tin box. There was $800.00 worth of hand tools in that box. It ruined me...
When I went to work in two way radio, the Snap-On Man got a cut of every one of my paychecks.

Having  clipped component leads with nail clippers and drilled holes in aluminum with scissors..... everything else is a bonus!

I have used self drilling screws to drill holes in aluminum.
Your wrist can get all kinds of tired spinning that nut driver.

[fivefish]

$2600 scope for a newbie just starting out? I personally think it's a waste of money. You could have bought a $100 analog scope on eBay if you're just starting out.... milk it, learn from it, study it, squeeze it for what it's worth, and if your project/skills demand more features/performance, then that's when you get say a starter DSO Rigol DS1054Z... again milk it for what it's worth, and you'll know when you need to "upgrade" to a bigger and better scope.

Buying new test equipment won't make you learn electronics through osmosis by the smell of new equipment.

Let's see, I was sophomore in High School and only had an analog VOM (a kit I built myself), cutter, pliers, philips and flat head, and some drill bits and ferric chloride. -- from these primitive tools, I've built a power supply, a regulated power supply, a phono preamp, stereo preamp, stereo amplifier, crossover, AM radio, FM radio, digital clock, "knight rider" running lights, etc... I made my own PCB using a xerox machine, tracing paper, nail used as a punch, and a hammer and some permanent marker pens.  The thought of buying a scope, or a signal generator didn't even enter my mind.

You don't need $5K of new equipment in your lab before you can start learning electronics!

Edit: Oops, forgot another tool... a 30W soldering iron that keeps getting hotter and hotter until you can't hold the handle anymore, so once in a while you need to unplug it from the wall.

[G0HZU]

Edit: Oops, forgot another tool... a 30W soldering iron that keeps getting hotter and hotter until you can't hold the handle anymore, so once in a while you need to unplug it from the wall.

Luxury.... 

[Smokey]

All I can think of with this thread is how badly it is screwed up the statistics for online retailers like tequipment.net.  I bet you guys have been tossing all kinds of stuff in carts, full lab setups like people sometimes buy at once totaling thousands and thousands of dollars, and then never buying any of it.  Someone is monitoring that and losing their mind right now.

[CustomEngineerer]

Edit: Oops, forgot another tool... a 30W soldering iron that keeps getting hotter and hotter until you can't hold the handle anymore, so once in a while you need to unplug it from the wall.

Hah, my first soldering iron was like that. Found it at a flea market when I was a kid and bought it because I had seen several movies where a tech would use a soldering iron (at least I think it was supposed to be a soldering iron) on a malfunctioning piece of equipment and sparks would fly off and then the equipment would start working again. Came with instructions in some other language that had one line of bad english that said something like "plug in, wait hot". So I would plug it in, wait 10 - 15 minutes until the handle was almost to warm to pick up, solder 1 or 2 joints and then unplug and let cool. Seriously had no idea what I was doing (edit: not suggesting that I have any idea what I'm doing these days).

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

$2600 scope for a newbie just starting out? I personally think it's a waste of money. You could have bought a $100 analog scope on eBay if you're just starting out.... milk it, learn from it, study it, squeeze it for what it's worth, and if your project/skills demand more features/performance, then that's when you get say a starter DSO Rigol DS1054Z... again milk it for what it's worth, and you'll know when you need to "upgrade" to a bigger and better scope.

Buying new test equipment won't make you learn electronics through osmosis by the smell of new equipment.

Let's see, I was sophomore in High School and only had an analog VOM (a kit I built myself), cutter, pliers, philips and flat head, and some drill bits and ferric chloride. -- from these primitive tools, I've built a power supply, a regulated power supply, a phono preamp, stereo preamp, stereo amplifier, crossover, AM radio, FM radio, digital clock, "knight rider" running lights, etc... I made my own PCB using a xerox machine, tracing paper, nail used as a punch, and a hammer and some permanent marker pens.  The thought of buying a scope, or a signal generator didn't even enter my mind.

You don't need $5K of new equipment in your lab before you can start learning electronics!

Edit: Oops, forgot another tool... a 30W soldering iron that keeps getting hotter and hotter until you can't hold the handle anymore, so once in a while you need to unplug it from the wall.

I not going to comment anymore on this thread as a waste of time, but this guy clearly has money to throw away. To make matters worst he bought two scopes not just one a MSO4014 and MSO2072A and why? Only he knows, as assuming for bragging rights? Well it's his money and if he want to spend like a fool, that on him.

What kills me is he even complaints about over paying for a multimeter claiming he see no difference between a $70 to a $400 meter wondering why spend the extra? This is coming from a guy that just getting into electronics that just brought two expensive DSO's, which are not even that great. At least that thread worth it for entertainment value, which more likely will be derailed very soon. 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-mdo3014-vs-rigol-mso4014/60/

[DimitriP]

At least that thread worth it for entertainment value, which more likely will be derailed very soon.

Some, found this thread entertaining...and maybe in a sick sort of way it is.

But overall it is scoring pretty high on my recently calibrated bullshit meter.

"I informed you thusly" 

[AF6LJ]

At least that thread worth it for entertainment value, which more likely will be derailed very soon.

Some, found this thread entertaining...and maybe in a sick sort of way it is.

But overall it is scoring pretty high on my recently calibrated bullshit meter.

"I informed you thusly" 

There has been quite a bit of useful information posted here.
like..
Decide on what you want to do first..
Don't blow your money without knowing what you need.

And I would add......
The more you know the more you can get for that five Killobucks.

[DimitriP]

At least that thread worth it for entertainment value, which more likely will be derailed very soon.

Some, found this thread entertaining...and maybe in a sick sort of way it is.

But overall it is scoring pretty high on my recently calibrated bullshit meter.

"I informed you thusly" 

There has been quite a bit of useful information posted here.
like..
Decide on what you want to do first..
Don't blow your money without knowing what you need.

And I would add......
The more you know the more you can get for that five Killobucks.

I was going to say common sense in not that common, and stop there...but what fun would that be... so I decided to round off the list:

Ok..let's also add don't run with scissors, don't stick paperclips in  wall jacks, wash hands after using the restroom,. don't chew with your mouth open, don't yell "fire" in a crowded room "for fun", don't drive drunk, check voltages first, read the manual, shower before going out on date, never send threatening emails (using your own computer or email address at least), always check your spare tire before a long trip, when going on a long hike pack extra socks and water, and when backing up to a USB stick use at least three...
...oh and whatever you are searching for, it's at the last place you look.

[AF6LJ]

I always use my neighbor's computer to send threatening E-mails   

[Smokey]

I always use my neighbor's computer to send threatening E-mails   

Route it through 10 cities and off 2 satellites....

[skipjackrc4]

I would buy one armored Sucoflex phase-stable cable.  That's a good start towards a working lab, right? 

[AF6LJ]

I always use my neighbor's computer to send threatening E-mails   

Route it through 10 cities and off 2 satellites....

There ya go..
Just like the good old days of Phone Phreaking.

[D3f1ant]

This thread does have some aspects, but mostly its just a giant 

I wouldn't buy ANYTHING until you need it for an actual project. Taking equipment advise from random (well meaning I'm sure) people on the internet and spending money on random gear you will most likely NEVER use is just crazy 

Grow your lab empirically!  After a few years you'll end up with a lab full of equipment that is useful to you for your projects rather than a bunch of useless crap you've never used. Spending money on random gear could prevent you from even starting the first project if, for example, you need a fancy jtag device programmer but spent the money on an AC clamp meter 

FYI the first piece of equipment I turn on in the morning, and the last thing I turn off at night, is the espresso machine.