Author Topic: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments  (Read 19559 times)

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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2014, 08:26:25 am »
The Agilent does have a few higher capacities in certain areas especially pulse mode and AWG like features. But My 2450 spec review has the comparable Agilent in it. The Keithley wins on accuracy specs in almost every area.

Also the scripting really sets it apart. Agilent should have implemented it long ago.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2014, 08:39:08 am »
Also the scripting really sets it apart. Agilent should have implemented it long ago.

The Agilent is essentially designed to be built into custom test fixtures from scratch. Hence no easy in-built scripting or even decent easy to use PC software with pre-written basic testing stuff.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2014, 10:33:04 am »
I am glad to have waited with the Agilent purchase for a long time now.
Thanks again for your great review and comments, I will have a closer look in to the Keithley 2450 and will be ordering one soon.
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Online dr.diesel

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2014, 10:38:51 am »
I will have a closer look in to the Keithley 2450 and will be ordering one soon.

They are currently offering 10% off, not sure when the promotion ends however.

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2014, 10:53:17 am »
I will have a closer look in to the Keithley 2450 and will be ordering one soon.

They are currently offering 10% off, not sure when the promotion ends however.
It seems like a US promotion only, I can not find anything in regards to that on the German Keithley site.
Well, I requested a quote from them, will see what they offer.
Thanks for letting me know about the 10% off


EDIT:
I just received a quote from Keithley Germany (On a Sunday)
They want Euro 4660 +19% VAT
No word of the 10% off promotion.
Hmmm... I will give them a call tomorrow


« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 11:13:09 am by HighVoltage »
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Offline Dave

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2014, 01:08:11 pm »
Another great video. Keep up the good work! :-+

I've been meaning to ask you, Hugoneus, what happened to the intro video clip? Ever since linear vs. nonlinear circuits video you have been using a recording of that clip from your computer screen. Did you accidentally delete the original?
I took the liberty of cutting the intro out of one of your older videos. You can find it here, if you want to use it in future videos.
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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2014, 02:40:34 am »
Another great video. Keep up the good work! :-+

I've been meaning to ask you, Hugoneus, what happened to the intro video clip? Ever since linear vs. nonlinear circuits video you have been using a recording of that clip from your computer screen. Did you accidentally delete the original?
I took the liberty of cutting the intro out of one of your older videos. You can find it here, if you want to use it in future videos.

Thanks a lot. My current editing/recording setup is not very good. I want to upgrade my recording equipment... Have to save some cash! :)
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2014, 10:20:44 pm »
Shahriar,
May I ask you to upload the script for testing the Super Capacitor?
Thanks so much
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Online dr.diesel

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2014, 01:39:22 pm »
Figures, right after I buy a 2450, out comes the 2460.

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2014, 09:57:25 pm »
Figures, right after I buy a 2450, out comes the 2460.
Same here,
But I think the 2460 is a little different.
May be good to have both.
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Offline w2aew

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2014, 10:03:49 pm »
Can it operate as an electronic dummy load? I think yes but I am not so sure.

Yes, but can only sink 1-Amp.

The newly announced 2460 has the same touchscreen interface and can do up to 7A source/sink, Vsource to 105V (100W max):
http://www.keithley.com/products/dcac/currentvoltage/touchscreensmu/?mn=2460
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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2014, 10:18:55 pm »
Figures, right after I buy a 2450, out comes the 2460.
Same here,
But I think the 2460 is a little different.
May be good to have both.

The 2460 essentially moved the dynamic range of the 2450 one decade up. So its sensitivity is not as much, but it can sink much higher currents. If you don't ever need 7A, then the 2450 will work just as well.
Shahriar Shahramian
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Online dr.diesel

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2014, 11:11:32 am »
So its sensitivity is not as much

 :phew:

I hadn't reviewed the specs yet, but that makes me feel better!  I'm much more interested in low measurements, although I admit on occasion > 1 amp is definitely useful.

I do have some large lead acid batteries to charge every now and then,  :-DD

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2014, 03:38:42 pm »
Just got my 2450 SMU and played around with it today.
It is kind of an amazing machine and I am very happy that I got this one and not the Agilent SMU
Thanks again for your great review.

Here in the attached picture, I am measuring a precision 0.0001 Ohm resistor with exactly 1 A current.
What a result and soooo simple to setup and reliable results with such a precision and accuracy.
I am very happy with it.

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Online dr.diesel

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2014, 03:49:34 pm »
I am very happy with it.

Yeah, but it gets worse actually.  I now have the strange desire to trace random diodes, plot and print, organize accordingly.   :scared:

:twitch: :twitch:

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2014, 03:59:13 pm »
Yeah, but it gets worse actually.  I now have the strange desire to trace random diodes, plot and print, organize accordingly.   :scared:
:twitch: :twitch:

Yes, tell me about it....
It opens completely new doors to measurements for all kinds of applications.
I needed to measure some large-wire inductors for DC resistance and this SMU is the first
instrument that can do it for me with such a precision. And this is just the beginning.
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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2014, 06:42:59 pm »
Yeah, but it gets worse actually.  I now have the strange desire to trace random diodes, plot and print, organize accordingly.   :scared:
:twitch: :twitch:

Yes, tell me about it....
It opens completely new doors to measurements for all kinds of applications.
I needed to measure some large-wire inductors for DC resistance and this SMU is the first
instrument that can do it for me with such a precision. And this is just the beginning.

Congratulations! :)
Shahriar Shahramian
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Offline robrenz

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2014, 10:23:42 pm »
Just got my 2450 SMU and played around with it today.
It is kind of an amazing machine and I am very happy that I got this one and not the Agilent SMU
Thanks again for your great review.

Here in the attached picture, I am measuring a precision 0.0001 Ohm resistor with exactly 1 A current.
What a result and soooo simple to setup and reliable results with such a precision and accuracy.
I am very happy with it.

I love my 2450 also  :-+ but at 0.0001 ohms the max error could be +/-150% of reading which is 20 times more accurate than the Fluke 8846A max error at +/-3000% of reading, but 37 times worse than the IET LOM 510A Micro Ohmeter
at +/-4% of reading. 

EDIT: Notice how small the actual error is on the chart below this one.



Based on the LOM 510A having no error the 2450 only had 3.4% of reading error at the .0001 value so pretty good  :-+


« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 01:50:15 am by robrenz »
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2014, 10:48:17 am »
I love my 2450 also  :-+ but at 0.0001 ohms the max error could be +/-150% of reading which is 20 times more accurate than the Fluke 8846A max error at +/-3000% of reading, but 37 times worse than the IET LOM 510A Micro Ohmeter
at +/-4% of reading. 

EDIT: Notice how small the actual error is on the chart below this one.

Based on the LOM 510A having no error the 2450 only had 3.4% of reading error at the .0001 value so pretty good  :-+


Robrenz,
Thanks for your detailed charts and the info on the LOM-510A
I also looked at the Agilent 34420A Micro Ohm meter and a few others.
But for this application, I needed have a 1A current to measure the resistance, to see any low resistance problems at this current. In the past I just sent a 1A current from a PSU and then used the 34401A to measure the voltage drop.
Having it all in one 2450 SMU is just amazing!

I should look at the datasheets of these micro Ohm meters, but I doubt that they are delivering 1 A current to the DUT but may be I am wrong. I just saw that you have a video on the LOM-510A and I will have a look at it. Thanks for that.


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Offline robrenz

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2014, 12:21:27 pm »
The 34420A uses a max current of 10mA on the 1 ohm range and is more accurate than the LOM 510A. But the LOM 510A uses 1A for the 20 mOhm range. I have a second LOM 510A, if you are interested send me a PM.

Offline ManateeMafia

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2014, 07:47:51 pm »
Keithley has a white paper on combining the 2182 and 2400 to make low level resistance measurements.

www.keithley.com/data?asset=4644

I do not know if you can trigger the 2450 the same as the 2400, but it would be interesting to see if you can get improved accuracy using a 2182/A
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2015, 08:08:24 am »
Thanks for a nice review again.

Now it is difficult to decide between the Keithley or the Keysight Source Meter.
But both are so expensive!

I don't know if you've gone ahead with a purchase yet, but the Keysight seems a lot better than the Keithley. I've found an alarming number of firmware bugs on the 2450, although the majority of them are to do with the inbuilt plotting feature where it just gets the axes completely wrong. I was drawing 93.43GW apparently...

The major flaw I've found with the 2450 is autoranging when set to source voltage and measure current. If you have a device in low current mode that occasionally blips a bit of current (we're drawing 0.9mA with pulses of 12mA), the voltage drops out as it switches range for as much as 100ms causing the DUT to reset. I can understand the current range reading O.L. while switching range, but IMO if you are sourcing voltage, the voltage should ALWAYS remain constant. The Keysight doesn't do this.

edit: Duh! Sorry I saw your more recent post.  |O

I'd be interested if anyone else finds the button to turn on/off the output a bit dodgy? Mine seems to need quite a lot of force for it to operate. I might send this back for a Keysight.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 08:07:21 am by SteveyG »
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2015, 08:28:53 am »
Result of the SMU not being able to decide which current range to choose - load is a 60mm 12V fan:



If you choose the range yourself, it correctly sources 12V. Firmware 1.2.0f

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2015, 11:10:58 am »
Thanks for a nice review again.

Now it is difficult to decide between the Keithley or the Keysight Source Meter.
But both are so expensive!

I don't know if you've gone ahead with a purchase yet, but the Keysight seems a lot better than the Keithley. I've found an alarming number of firmware bugs on the 2450, although the majority of them are to do with the inbuilt plotting feature where it just gets the axes completely wrong. I was drawing 93.43GW apparently...

The major flaw I've found with the 2450 is autoranging when set to source voltage and measure current. If you have a device in low current mode that occasionally blips a bit of current (we're drawing 0.9mA with pulses of 12mA), the voltage drops out as it switches range for as much as 100ms causing the DUT to reset. I can understand the current range reading O.L. while switching range, but IMO if you are sourcing voltage, the voltage should ALWAYS remain constant. The Keysight doesn't do this.

edit: Duh! Sorry I saw your more recent post.  |O

I'd be interested if anyone else finds the button to turn on/off the output a bit dodgy? Mine seems to need quite a lot of force for it to operate. I might send this back for a second Keysight.

I have the 2450 in use almost every day.
So far I really like it and have no complains whatsoever.

The turn on / off button also works good on my unit and no complains there either.

"for a second Keysight"?
Does this mean you already have one Keysight SMU?
Which one?
What do you like better about that one in comparison?
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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: (Video) Keithley 2450 Source Measure Unit (SMU) Review and Experiments
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2015, 05:50:15 pm »
I am trying to replicate your issue on my 2450, so far I have not been able to. I'll let you know.

One of the strengths of the 2450 is the scripting. I have recommended Keysight to implement these features, but the team which works on their SMU is apparently in Japan and they have not decided to do this yet.
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