Author Topic: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic  (Read 32537 times)

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Offline DanielS

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2014, 02:31:10 am »
And what is the bloody point of a sampling oscilloscope ? They are only useful on repetitive signals and you can look at eye diagrams ...

They are useless for day to day work , debugging work , signal analysis (analog or digital).
If you are doing debugging and signal analysis for one of your own designs, you can simply have a test mode from which to make your design generate repetitive patterns for signal testing purposes or add provisions to accept an external reference test signal.

For dealing with systems over which you have no control or visibility into, I agree that ETS becomes far less useful.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2014, 06:55:51 am »
A sampling scope is very usefull for TDR (time domain reflectometry) in order to look at how well a trace or cable connection is impedance matched and whether there are impedance changes along the trace or cable (for example a via or connector).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2014, 07:07:54 am »
I work with HD digital video signals (HD-SDI) and I would love to have a USB device to simply monitor the eye pattern.  It would be very handy out in the field when debugging wiring problems with my mobile video production unit gear.
 

Offline eurofox

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2014, 10:03:04 pm »
Screen shots 6Ghz, 11Ghz signal and 67ps pulse :-+

Not bad for this little scope.

eurofox
 

Online nctnico

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2014, 11:59:26 pm »
I'm still wondering where I can order this oscilloscope and where I can find some kind of datasheet.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline eurofox

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2014, 12:26:33 am »
I'm still wondering where I can order this oscilloscope and where I can find some kind of datasheet.

You can order on the link below.

Time base range in 1-2-5 sequence 25ps to 100┬Ás
Time base accuracy 0.5%FS +/-10 ps
Vertical resolution 12 Bit
Vertical divisions in 1-2-5 sequence 10 to 1000 mV
Maximum input voltage Sampler 2 Vpp
Enclosure size 102 x 56 x 123 mm

http://www.fastsampling.com/

The website and documentation is not the strongest point of Darwin but by own experience he is a very professional engineer and answer all emails with a minimum of delay.

My own experience is that it work well but you have to learn how to use it, it is not like another sampling scope but with some experience it become easy to use and it is low cost and take very little place.

It is extremely important in the Ghz en ps to use only 1st quality cable, connectors, DC blocker, attenuators, splitter with a minimum of 18Ghz bandwidth.
I reach a point now where I make my cables myself because the Suhner Sucoflex or similar are extremely expensive.


I should write a kind of new user manual but since I'm the only user here ....

The only alternative is an old Tek monster that cost a few K$ on the second hand market with spare parts getting difficult to find ....
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 12:42:50 am by eurofox »
eurofox
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2014, 12:52:53 am »
The only alternative is an old Tek monster that cost a few K$ on the second hand market with spare parts getting difficult to find ....

If you can live with analog sampling, then an even older Tektronix monster can be had for $100s and they include full service documentation.  A couple of them even include random sampling so a delay line or pretrigger is not required to show the trigger edge.
 

Offline eurofox

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2014, 01:10:23 am »
The only alternative is an old Tek monster that cost a few K$ on the second hand market with spare parts getting difficult to find ....

If you can live with analog sampling, then an even older Tektronix monster can be had for $100s and they include full service documentation.  A couple of them even include random sampling so a delay line or pretrigger is not required to show the trigger edge.


David,

I suppose that you mean the Tek 7000 serie ....
I check it, the frames are not expensive but the head and the other dedicated plugin you need are still very expensive.
The 7000 frame is huge, I have no place on my bench to put is unit.

Maybe you mean another type of analog sampling scope?
eurofox
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2014, 02:40:06 am »
The only alternative is an old Tek monster that cost a few K$ on the second hand market with spare parts getting difficult to find ....

If you can live with analog sampling, then an even older Tektronix monster can be had for $100s and they include full service documentation.  A couple of them even include random sampling so a delay line or pretrigger is not required to show the trigger edge.

David,

I suppose that you mean the Tek 7000 series ....
I check it, the frames are not expensive but the head and the other dedicated plugin you need are still very expensive.
The 7000 frame is huge, I have no place on my bench to put is unit.

Maybe you mean another type of analog sampling scope?

I was thinking of the 7000 series and the older 3S series and 4S2 (3.9 GHz) sampler but 11k series sampling oscilloscopes which use SD series sampling heads are occasionally available at reasonable prices.  Jim Williams used the 1S1 with a 556 mainframe, 1S2 with a 547 mainframe, and 4S2 with a 661 mainframe.  The 3T2 might be worth considering because it supports random sampling but I have read that it is very difficult to maintain and work with.

The big problem as I see it is that the fastest sampling heads, above 4 GHz, are basically unrepairable because of hybrid construction and fragile like all sampling heads.  The 11k series and SD series sampling heads lack detailed service documentation.

I picked up a late 7854 with two 7S11/S-4 samplers and 7T11A timebase for about $300 a couple years ago but no doubt lucked out.  The 7854 had an obscure but easy to diagnose and repair problem (to me anyway) in the vertical CRT amplifier which I suspect lead to it being put into long term storage in lieu of being sent in for expensive diagnostics and repair.  There was evidence that someone had adjusted the readout calibration to try and make up for the vertical CRT amplifier problem which affected vertical gain.  The sampling system needed recalibration because of age and S-4s are known to have blow-by issues but within their limitations, they work well.  I am considering replacing them with a pair of slower S-2 sampling heads when lower bandwidth is acceptable.

As you point out, none of these solutions are small.  I currently see the sampling oscilloscope I have as a path to designing a modern replacement but that is a long term project.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2014, 02:58:26 am »
The only alternative is an old Tek monster that cost a few K$ on the second hand market with spare parts getting difficult to find ....

If you can live with analog sampling, then an even older Tektronix monster can be had for $100s and they include full service documentation.  A couple of them even include random sampling so a delay line or pretrigger is not required to show the trigger edge.

Like the 567? Yeah, it's a monster but an entertaining one.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2014, 05:08:08 am »
At $700 the price is bit steep. I recall seeing a price around $300. I think I'd rather get a Tektronix TDS820 (6GHz) from a good year.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline eurofox

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2014, 08:48:56 am »
At $700 the price is bit steep. I recall seeing a price around $300. I think I'd rather get a Tektronix TDS820 (6GHz) from a good year.

For $300 you just got a second hand current probe.

I got a recent TDS820 and was very disappointed when I start extensive testing.
It was one of the lasted (I sold it), trigger stopped at 1,7Ghz, according specification it was suppose to be at 2Ghz, a little sad for a 6Ghz instrument.
It was OK to measure pulses, it was a "big box" on my shelf if I compare to this little scope that I can hold on my hand.

I think a similar model with better software from Pico price tag is 10K$ or more.

It is not my scope for every day work, I like to play with ultra fast pulses and with this tool I can measure it.
In the beginning it was frustrating because lack of a decent documentation and it is not really like an usual scope, you have sometimes to use a DC blocker, a delay line (just very good coax cable), a power splitter and a prescaler to measure frequency above 4 Ghz and very good cables and connectors.

I just remind that a real time oscilloscope capable of working with such frequency cost second hand 70K$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-DSA91304A-Infiniium-Oscilloscope-13GHz-w-4x-1169A-Probes-/351091960228?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item51beb629a4
eurofox
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2014, 12:18:34 pm »
I got a recent TDS820 and was very disappointed when I start extensive testing.
It was one of the lasted (I sold it), trigger stopped at 1,7Ghz, according specification it was suppose to be at 2Ghz, a little sad for a 6Ghz instrument.

It is unusual to need a slope/level trigger bandwidth equal to the vertical bandwidth.  Tektronix made an external countdown trigger but I do not know if they had one intended for the TDS820.  The 11k sampling oscilloscopes had a countdown trigger plug-in.  Some of their earlier analog timebases included a countdown trigger as well but that is not what they called it.

Quote
In the beginning it was frustrating because lack of a decent documentation and it is not really like an usual scope, you have sometimes to use a DC blocker, a delay line (just very good coax cable), a power splitter and a prescaler to measure frequency above 4 Ghz and very good cables and connectors.

Sampling oscilloscopes are a little weird and prone to mislead.  Tektronix had the 7S14 which is a 7000 series 1 GHz dual channel sampling oscilloscope plug-in with built in delay line that operates like a delayed sweep oscilloscope.

Some delay lines intended for sampling oscilloscopes include a pretrigger pickoff so no extraneous splitter is needed.

I had to pick up a DC block as well for my 7T11A because the external trigger is always DC coupled which occasionally caused problems with TTL level triggers that had a high DC offset.  The 7T11A trigger level range is tiny.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2014, 06:31:43 am »
The trigger-to-sample-delay is generated by a ring oscillator (the majority of the delay comes from a long pcb trace)

So you just have some sort of monostable multivibrator with one end of the line at it's input and the other at it's output?

How is it affected by temperature? (External and internal as it heats itself up in the first few cycles after it's triggered.) What's the drift after a couple 10s of ns?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 06:34:47 am by Marco »
 

Offline Lukas

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2014, 08:20:23 am »
The trigger-to-sample-delay is generated by a ring oscillator (the majority of the delay comes from a long pcb trace)

So you just have some sort of monostable multivibrator with one end of the line at it's input and the other at it's output?

How is it affected by temperature? (External and internal as it heats itself up in the first few cycles after it's triggered.) What's the drift after a couple 10s of ns?
You may call it such, basically it's just an AND gate with the output connected inverted to one input and the trigger (stays high) connected to the other. It provides the 'coarse' delay, fine delay is provided by an 100LVEP196 delay line. I'll have to see how the startup performance is like, since it requires a fast realtime scope to measure. I expect it not to drift that much since ECL power consumption doesn't depend very much on switching frequency.
I'm happy to hear about your suggestions about generating the variable delay. One other option I've been thinking of is to use some analog ramp kind of thing, i.e. charge a capacitor using a constant current source in the time between the trigger event and the second clock edge following the trigger and then continue to charge the capactitor up to a set limit after a certain number of clock cycles. Charging the capacitor linearily enough and holding its voltage constant during the clock cylces delay appear to be not that easy problems to solve.
 

Offline eurofox

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2014, 11:23:06 pm »
Last pulse test  :-+

eurofox
 

Offline Rionet

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2018, 04:04:16 am »
Does anyone know how to contact with Darvin Sabanovic?
Email on http://www.fastsampling.com not works..
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 04:06:45 am by Rionet »
 

Offline Rionet

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #92 on: May 01, 2018, 08:46:38 pm »
Email on http://www.fastsampling.com/ not works, but clicking on "order" button jumps to make checkout via paypal.
So, can i pay without any worry about money if i not recieve working device? due to paypal protection system?
 

Offline Safar

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #93 on: May 02, 2018, 12:13:49 pm »
Email on http://www.fastsampling.com/ not works, but clicking on "order" button jumps to make checkout via paypal.
So, can i pay without any worry about money if i not recieve working device? due to paypal protection system?

It seems like web pages do not updates in last two years. I think that ask first in info@ibzelectronics.com would be clever.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #94 on: May 02, 2018, 01:28:22 pm »
So, can i pay without any worry about money if i not recieve working device? due to paypal protection system?
dont pay. you can get paypal protection but is it worth the hassle? contact the seller and make sure he's around, otherwise you pay or not pay, you wont get your item...
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Rionet

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #95 on: May 02, 2018, 10:04:37 pm »
Email messages to info@ibzelectronics.com rejected because email address is deleted.
So, no way to get contact..
Is it possible to get contact via paypal system?
 

Online BravoV

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #96 on: May 02, 2018, 10:36:20 pm »
Email messages to info@ibzelectronics.com rejected because email address is deleted.
So, no way to get contact..
Is it possible to get contact via paypal system?

As you're so desperately to get it, also you can claim back your money if something wrong, why don't you just purchase now and report back to us how this ends up ?

Offline Rionet

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #97 on: May 04, 2018, 03:19:08 am »
Yes, i really need scope with BW > 4Ghz to measure rise/fall time for periodical pulses with 50-100ps edges.

I was contacted to ICHaus
http://ichaus.de/product/iC227
http://ichaus.de/iC227_datasheet_en
They have device in stock and can sell it for 2500euro.
They say only differences with fastsampling.com is more accessories included and improved software.
They say nothing about relationships with Darvin, possible resellers.

If i click order on IBZ site, i forwarded to Paypal with payment to "IBZ Electronics".
I want try to make dummy payment for 1$ with message, but Paypal wants user email from me. How to get an email of Paypal user?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 06:47:35 am by Rionet »
 

Offline Gerhard_dk4xp

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #98 on: May 04, 2018, 08:43:17 am »
This is my take on the ADCMP580.

Board is home-etched on 0.5mm pre-sensitized Bungard FR4
from Altium - pdf - laser printer to foil - contact copy.

The scope to measure the result is a 54750A with 54751A 20 GHz
sampler. I solved my pulse problem by buying a 54754A 18 GHz
differential TDR plugin.

regards, Gerhard

AARgh! one pic too large and you can retype here everything.

 

Offline GerryBags

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Re: 10 GHz USB Oscilloscope by Darwin Sabanovic
« Reply #99 on: May 04, 2018, 08:53:51 am »
Yes, i really need scope with BW > 4Ghz to measure rise/fall time for periodical pulses with 50-100ps edges.

Is something like this any use, Rionet: 54120B http://www.radwell.co.uk/en-GB/Buy/KEYSIGHT%20AGILENT%20HP/54120B
 


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