Author Topic: 350Mhz Scope, 2020  (Read 5162 times)

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Offline andrea.longobardi85

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350Mhz Scope, 2020
« on: May 04, 2020, 05:33:31 am »
Hi All,

I am scouting for a professional oscilloscope with the following minimum characteristics:
- 4 channels
- 350Mhz bandwidth
- logic analyzer

I am try to find the right brand/model and then I will look for  deal on the web I guess.

I have boiled down to three brands (Rigol, Tek and Keysight) with the Keysight 4000X being my favorite, although the cheaper Rigol MSO5000 is tempting...

Any suggestions?
Anyone has experience buying second hand Keysight scope on Ebay?

As I said I need it for professional usage.

Thanks!

Andrea
 

Offline stafil

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2020, 05:55:34 am »
Get this for $2000 (he will accept an offer for $2k) and hack it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-Keysight-DSOX3014T-100MHz-4Ch-5GS-s-Oscilloscope-with-N2890A-probes/383339365915


The think is, that even if you buy the MSO5k, if you really want a Keysight or Tek, you will end up buying one of them as well. If I was you however I would wait a bit. DSOX is a pretty old line and probably will get updated soon.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 06:21:21 am by stafil »
 

Online tautech

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2020, 07:13:37 am »
Hi All,

I am scouting for a professional oscilloscope with the following minimum characteristics:
- 4 channels
- 350Mhz bandwidth
- logic analyzer

I am try to find the right brand/model and then I will look for  deal on the web I guess.

I have boiled down to three brands (Rigol, Tek and Keysight) with the Keysight 4000X being my favorite, although the cheaper Rigol MSO5000 is tempting...

Any suggestions?
Anyone has experience buying second hand Keysight scope on Ebay?

As I said I need it for professional usage.

Thanks!

Andrea
Welcome to the forum.

Just 3 brands ?  :-//
2 scopes from Siglent that are worthy of study as they fit your requirements:
SDS5034X or SDS2354X Plus are $3570 or less without options.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2020, 07:39:50 am »
Why the SDS2354X+ when there is the SDS5034X for almost the same price ?
 

Online tautech

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2020, 08:05:12 am »
Why the SDS2354X+ when there is the SDS5034X for almost the same price ?
SDS5034X is just a bit dearer of the 2 ....both 350 MHz:
SDS2354X+ is $3k plus options but with basic decode free, shared vertical controls, 2 GSa/s and 200 Mpts mem.
SDS5034X is $3569 plus options but with basic decode free, individual vertical controls, 5 GSa/s and 250 Mpts mem and a SAPBus interface for active probes.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2020, 08:36:50 am »
Hi All,

I am scouting for a professional oscilloscope with the following minimum characteristics:
- 4 channels
- 350Mhz bandwidth
- logic analyzer

I am try to find the right brand/model and then I will look for  deal on the web I guess.

I have boiled down to three brands (Rigol, Tek and Keysight) with the Keysight 4000X being my favorite, although the cheaper Rigol MSO5000 is tempting...

Any suggestions?
Did you look at the R&S RTM3004?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rohde-schwarz-rtm3000-review/msg1604185/
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2020, 09:57:17 am »
Hi All,

I am scouting for a professional oscilloscope with the following minimum characteristics:
- 4 channels
- 350Mhz bandwidth
- logic analyzer

I am try to find the right brand/model and then I will look for  deal on the web I guess.

These are pretty generic specs which leave a wide range of scopes..It would help if you could tell us what the scope is going to be used for. For example, how much memory do you need? Is 8bit resolution sufficient or do you need 10bit or 12bit? Any serial decode options? Power Analysis? Digital filters? Is FFT important? Statistics? What kind of probes do you need? And so on. There's a lot more to finding a scope that just channels and BW.

Also, what budget do you have? Because the price difference between the lower and upper end for 350MHz scopes as specified by you is some $15k.

Quote
I have boiled down to three brands (Rigol, Tek and Keysight) with the Keysight 4000X being my favorite, although the cheaper Rigol MSO5000 is tempting...

Frankly, the fact that you consider a $2800 Rigol as an alternative to a $11k Keysight tells me that you haven't spent enough time to consider what the scope will be used for and what your actual requirements are.

You are running a high risk to waste a lot of money for a scope which may or may not be the best choice for your use case.

I'm also not sure I would recommend Tektronix, which today is pretty much the bottom of the barrel when it comes to big brands, and unless you're really looking for a slow and excessively priced scope with poor support I would recommend to look elsewhere.

Brands you may want to include however are Siglent (especially the SDS5034X which is $3600 and which offers a wide range of functionality), Teledyne LeCroy (they have a new 12bit mid-range scope WaveSurfer 4000HD which offers 12bit resolution, the 350Mhz variant is around $14k) or Rohde & Schwarz (the RTM3004 for example).

Quote
Anyone has experience buying second hand Keysight scope on Ebay?

Yes, quite a lot actually. Mostly positive, and if you buy a 2nd hand Keysight instrument then you can buy new warranty (called 'repair agreements') from Keysight as long as the instrument is still within the support period.

You can do the same for LeCroy and Rohde & Schwarz, too.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 10:05:03 am by Wuerstchenhund »
 
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Offline andrea.longobardi85

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2020, 07:44:33 pm »
Hi all,

Thank you so much for your inputs. Here more details on what i am looking for:
1) 4 channel
3) 350Mhz at least + probes with same or higher BW
4) digital decoding (I2C, UART, SPI CAN)
5) FFT ( I do like the dedicated RF channel of the Teks...)
6) 10 inch screen will be nice
7) LAN interface
8) 2 channels waveform generator
9) affordable compatible current probe

I have a Siglent sds1102 but not really happy with the speed and user interface, I guess the new 5000 series is much better...

 

Online tautech

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2020, 08:01:54 pm »
I have a Siglent sds1102 but not really happy with the speed and user interface, I guess the new 5000 series is much better...
SDS1102..... all of those older variants came from a distant decade.  ;)
Even the SDS1102X while being much more capable has been surpassed by the X-E models and by lightyears further by 5kX and 2kX+ models.

While inbuilt AWG/FG's are convenient and save bench space their output performance sucks in amplitude and for a few $100 you can get a proper 2ch AWG with decent output drive that can interface directly with the scope for stuff like Bode plots.
Eg. The single channel 50 MHz FG option for 2kX+ is $219 and a 2ch 30 MHz SDG1032X is $319.
I know which I'd prefer.  ;)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2020, 06:19:31 am »
Hi all,

Thank you so much for your inputs. Here more details on what i am looking for:
1) 4 channel
3) 350Mhz at least + probes with same or higher BW
4) digital decoding (I2C, UART, SPI CAN)
5) FFT ( I do like the dedicated RF channel of the Teks...)
6) 10 inch screen will be nice
7) LAN interface

Well, that's not really a lot more information and still leaves you with scopes from some $2k to > $15'000.

FFT is standard on pretty much every scope, but there are differences in resolution capability (oh, and that Tek dedicated RF channel is nothing more than a separate input for scope FFT) and processing speed.

Decoding for I2C, UART, SPI and CAN has also been more or less standard (either included or as option) except for a few really low cost scopes.

Probes, well, pretty much all scopes come with only passive probes which don't go over 600MHz, and which in reality are only good for signals up to 250MHz-300Mhz. Anything better will be at extra cost, and very likely be expensive.

You still haven't told us the important bit, which is what you want to do with the scope and what your budget is.

Quote
8) 2 channels waveform generator

As Tautech wrote, get a standalone one. It's a lot more cost effective and you get a lot more for your money than with any of the buildings-in AWGs.

Quote
9) affordable compatible current probe

As a general rule, current probes from scope manufacturers are not cheap, and what is áffordable'to you depends on how much you want to spend (which goes back to the question about your budget).

Quote
I have a Siglent sds1102 but not really happy with the speed and user interface, I guess the new 5000 series is much better...

SDS1102 what (There's a whole decade of various SDS1102xxx scope models)? CL? CML? CNL? CFL?

In any case, as Tautech said if it's one of the older scopes then a lot has happened since then, and the current Siglent scopes have improved a lot since then.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 06:21:38 am by Wuerstchenhund »
 

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2020, 07:08:21 am »
Anyone has experience buying second hand Keysight scope on Ebay?

The official Keysight ebay store is excellent. And oyu can often get extra software options thrown in for free if you ask.
https://saving.em.keysight.com/used-equipment/products/search/en?utm_source=eev&utm_medium=ban&utm_campaign=eevblogapr20&q=n99
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2020, 07:10:58 am »
Don't R&S have a bundle deal on their RTM3000 scope at the moment?
The RTM3K-32M would suits your needs, really nice scopes, 10 bit ADC.
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTM3K-32M.html
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 07:14:22 am by EEVblog »
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2020, 07:34:49 am »
When looking at this range, I would rather spend 900 Euro-Bucks more and get the "promotion package" for the full bore version: https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTM3K-COM4.html
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2020, 07:37:27 am »
When looking at this range, I would rather spend 900 Euro-Bucks more and get the "promotion package" for the full bore version: https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTM3K-COM4.html

That's the one I was thinking of. Bargain for such a high spec scope.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2020, 09:16:13 am »
Hi all,

Thank you so much for your inputs. Here more details on what i am looking for:
1) 4 channel
3) 350Mhz at least + probes with same or higher BW
4) digital decoding (I2C, UART, SPI CAN)
5) FFT ( I do like the dedicated RF channel of the Teks...)
6) 10 inch screen will be nice
7) LAN interface
8) 2 channels waveform generator
9) affordable compatible current probe

I have a Siglent sds1102 but not really happy with the speed and user interface, I guess the new 5000 series is much better...
The Rigol MSO5074 would look like a good fit for your needs.  They were including all the decode and AWG options for free and that made it great value but, at least in the US, that promotion seems to have ended. You can go up to 350 MHz by paying more ($3,000)  or there is the information here in this forum to hack the firmware up to MSO5354 standard (it's all the same hardware).

Rigol make an $867 RP1001C current probe but I use an old Tektronix A6302 current probe (0-20A, DC-50MHz) with an AM503 Current Probe Amplifier which I refurbished myself.  You simply feed a BNC output to the scope input (on the MS)5074 you will need a $20 50 \$\Omega\$ feed thru BNC terminator).  I got that setup for about $300 on eBay and was using it yesterday.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Online thinkfat

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2020, 09:43:29 am »
A lot of scopes will fit. That's the problem with giving advice. When the requirements are too generic and not weighted, everybody will just suggest their personal favorites.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 
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Online KE5FX

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2020, 11:00:27 am »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2020, 01:13:39 pm »
A lot of scopes will fit. That's the problem with giving advice. When the requirements are too generic and not weighted, everybody will just suggest their personal favorites.

Agreed. At least a ballpark price is needed. $3k? $5k? $7k? $10k?
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2020, 01:56:22 pm »
A lot of scopes will fit. That's the problem with giving advice. When the requirements are too generic and not weighted, everybody will just suggest their personal favorites.
That at least gives a list with candidates. The next step for the OP is do some research on the various models (read datasheets and reviews) and then get a few on loan to see which one fits best. In the end getting hands on experience is the best way to make a good decission.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2020, 03:19:57 pm »
A lot of scopes will fit. That's the problem with giving advice. When the requirements are too generic and not weighted, everybody will just suggest their personal favorites.
That at least gives a list with candidates. The next step for the OP is do some research on the various models (read datasheets and reviews) and then get a few on loan to see which one fits best. In the end getting hands on experience is the best way to make a good decission.

I severely doubt that test-driving random scopes with no plan or basic thought spent on what is needed will be a good decision. If you even get the scopes, because if you don't have any idea what you really need or at least what it is used for and what the budget is then they are unlikely to just hand over scopes costing several grands.

Quite frankly, unless the OP comes up with more details then any effort is wasted.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2020, 04:55:24 pm »
Well, the OP has stated professional use and he/she already has an oscilloscope. My guess would be that the OP is in a good position to recognize value (improvement) for money.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2020, 06:24:14 pm »
Well, the OP has stated professional use and he/she already has an oscilloscope. My guess would be that the OP is in a good position to recognize value (improvement) for money.

"Professional use" may well just mean that someone else pays for the scope.

And all we know is the OP has some "SDS1102", which can be everything from the long obsolete CL Series from 2008 or so to the current SDS1102X-E. The only thing we know for sure it's a bottom-of-the-barrel scope.

Frankly, where you see "a good position to recognize value (improvement) for money", I see someone who is about to waste a shitload of money on something without understanding the basics.

Unless of course, the OP knows and just doesn't say, but then what's the point of these postings with only rudimentary information content?

Doesn't matter anyways, as there clearly isn't much engagement by the OP.
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2020, 07:16:29 pm »
Don't be so hard on the OP, he's made 2 posts now.  There was once a time (when Pontius was a Pilate) when you had only 2 posts.

If someone else is buying, I want one of these...
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2020, 08:02:08 pm »
Don't be so hard on the OP, he's made 2 posts now.  There was once a time (when Pontius was a Pilate) when you had only 2 posts.

That is true, but it's not the number of posts which I find strange, but the lack of engagement with any of the replies. I just think it's atypical compared with what we normally see from people looking for advice. That's all.

Quote
If someone else is buying, I want one of these...

I'd rather take one of these  ;D

« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 08:04:31 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline andrea.longobardi85

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Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2020, 08:02:21 pm »
Here we go the third post!
1) I have got an SDS1102CML, but I have used Teks MDO3000 during my employee life...
1) budget 4.5K. Although it depends, if worthwhile I can get a loan :)
2) usage...I do electronics consulting... so I need it for different things...
Never had the need to go above 350Mhz so far and it think it is unlikely to happen.
But as I said , with my work is hard to know what I am going to debug tomorrow...

I think the best approach for me would be to get the higher spec scope for the budget I have...
 


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