Author Topic: 350Mhz Scope, 2020  (Read 5744 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2995
  • Country: gb
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2020, 08:16:01 pm »
Here we go the third post!

Great!  :)

Quote
1) I have got an SDS1102CML, but I have used Teks MDO3000 during my employee life...
1) budget 4.5K. Although it depends, if worthwhile I can get a loan :)
2) usage...I do electronics consulting... so I need it for different things...
Never had the need to go above 350Mhz so far and it think it is unlikely to happen.
But as I said , with my work is hard to know what I am going to debug tomorrow...

Well, that's something we can work with ;) Sounds what you're after is more like a general purpose scope rather than an analysis scope.

$4.5k sounds solid and should give you some options, although it will rule out many of the A-brand options.

WIth your budget, I'd probably consider the Siglent SDS5034X and maybe also the new SDS2304X+. I only know the SDS5000X but it's a really good scope with a lot of functionality you won't find anywhere else in that price class. It also has 50ohms/1M switchable inputs and an active probe interface (and I believe adapters for Tek and LeCroy probes are in the pipeline).

There's also the Rigol MSO5000 and MSO7000 which both should fit your budget as well, but both don't offer the same level of functionality you get in the Siglent scopes.

Another option could be a 2nd hand Keysight DSO-X3034T, which should be within your budget, too, even with the optional repair package. It's a good scope but the architecture is designed with a strong focus on update rates and comes with comparably small memory (4M vs >100M with the other scopes) and limited functionality.

I'm sure others may chime in with more options.

Lastly, I would not recommend to get a loan for anything more expensive, you're much better off just buying something that is within the budget and then get something else when you feel that it's no longer enough (and by then you'll know exactly what you need).
 
The following users thanked this post: andrea.longobardi85

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2020, 08:30:42 pm »
Not sure about the advice not getting a loan. If a piece of equipment generates revenue to cover the costs of a loan then it is not a bad investment. But it should be noted that test equipment devaluates faster than a car. Buying something cheap now and upgrading later may end up costing more compared to a loan. OTOH debt is debt and it causes a long term outgoing cash flow; the business should be able to support that.

To the OP: Regarding the Siglent: one thing to watch out for is that it uses a different memory management compared to the Tektronix you are used to; Siglent typically cuts the memory short to have just enough samples to fit the screen. This has to match your usage. For me this kind of memory management is a hard fail. All in all it still is a good idea to compare several scopes yourself. I think the R&S RTB2004 also fits the budget without needing a loan.

If you really need a lot of bandwidth then getting a used higher end oscilloscope is a cheap solution.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 08:37:37 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19162
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2020, 09:15:30 pm »

To the OP: Regarding the Siglent: one thing to watch out for is that it uses a different memory management compared to the Tektronix you are used to; Siglent typically cuts the memory short to have just enough samples to fit the screen. This has to match your usage.

That is utter BS !

As andrea already uses an old Siglent DSO I'm quite sure he knows how Siglent memory depth management works and with later versions of their scopes having substantially more memory depth, 100x in the case of the SDS2000X Plus, it is not the issue that some make it out to be.

We've been over and over this.  ::)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2020, 09:25:14 pm »

To the OP: Regarding the Siglent: one thing to watch out for is that it uses a different memory management compared to the Tektronix you are used to; Siglent typically cuts the memory short to have just enough samples to fit the screen. This has to match your usage.

That is utter BS !
That is because you want to sell Siglent. Just be fair and see the downsides for a change. No shame in that.
Quote

We've been over and over this.  ::)
And it doesn't work the way I want an oscilloscope to work; the way the Siglent scopes work seriously hamper my productivity. And I'm not the only one who sees shortening the record length to fit the screen as a downside.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 09:26:46 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Elasia

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 608
  • Country: us
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2020, 09:32:16 pm »
Best bang for the buck at the moment i'd say is the sds2000x plus line that just came out recently

Just got mine here not to long ago importing from batronix and it works fantastic

Agree about tek... tek has become a dinosaur to avoid.  Keysight or R&S if you want top notch but you will pay for it too


You can get a SDS2350X+ with the MSO options for  3089 euro before vat

But like nconico said.. watch out for the memory model and some of the screen drawing distortions with on screen menus etc.. other than those annoyances it does practically everything i'd ever need
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31897
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19162
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2020, 05:17:52 am »
1) budget 4.5K. Although it depends, if worthwhile I can get a loan :)

USD or euro?

How about a cheap older Keysight 6000 series:
https://saving.em.keysight.com/used-equipment/products/oscilloscopes-digital-waveform-analyzers/dso6034a-e174165392146/en
Used 3000 series:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-MSOX3034T-Oscilloscope-mixed-signal-4-16-channel-350MH-/193312457919?hash=item2d025204bf
Yeah well, the OP's stated requirements:

1) 4 channel
3) 350Mhz at least + probes with same or higher BW
4) digital decoding (I2C, UART, SPI CAN)
5) FFT ( I do like the dedicated RF channel of the Teks...)
6) 10 inch screen will be nice
7) LAN interface
8 ) 2 channels waveform generator
9) affordable compatible current probe

Tough ask I know however with a new SDS2354X Plus there's sufficient budget left for a cheaper current probe and a 2ch AWG with decent output.
Knowing the current probe specs required would be helpful.

You need get one of these in your hot little hands Dave to get a proper handle on what you get for the $.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
The following users thanked this post: andrea.longobardi85

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31897
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2020, 05:43:03 am »
You need get one of these in your hot little hands Dave to get a proper handle on what you get for the $.

I have got one.
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19162
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2020, 05:45:39 am »
You need get one of these in your hot little hands Dave to get a proper handle on what you get for the $.

I have got one.
Oh, you've been very quiet about that.  :-X
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31897
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2020, 06:12:02 am »
You need get one of these in your hot little hands Dave to get a proper handle on what you get for the $.
I have got one.
Oh, you've been very quiet about that.  :-X

Hardly. Have tweeted photos of it and it's shown in the latest Mailbag.
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech

Offline andrea.longobardi85

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: it
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2020, 07:35:05 am »
Hi All,

Thanks for all your inputs! it is 4.5k Euro and this is the budget I have allocated just for the scope.
Concerning the current probe I would need something > 5Mhz as I do lot of DC/DC.

I am considering at the moment those two options:

1)R&S RTB2000
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTB2K-COM4.html

2) SDS5034x bundle:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS5034X.html

Although the RTM3K bundle is really tempting...but would need to gather more $$$
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTM3K-COM4.html

Thanks!
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19162
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2020, 07:46:05 am »
Hi All,

Thanks for all your inputs! it is 4.5k Euro and this is the budget I have allocated just for the scope.
Concerning the current probe I would need something > 5Mhz as I do lot of DC/DC.

I am considering at the moment those two options:

1)R&S RTB2000
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTB2K-COM4.html

2) SDS5034x bundle:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS5034X.html

Although the RTM3K bundle is really tempting...but would need to gather more $$$
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTM3K-COM4.html

Thanks!
Interesting are the R&S promos when the SDS5000X promo is not offered in EU.  :-//
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds5000x/

There are threads for these DSO's on the forum and Dave has done teardowns and shootouts for some too.

Amp/sensitivity range for the current probe ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline andrea.longobardi85

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: it
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2020, 07:51:21 am »
10A/10mA will do!
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2995
  • Country: gb
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2020, 08:24:33 am »
Not sure about the advice not getting a loan. If a piece of equipment generates revenue to cover the costs of a loan then it is not a bad investment. But it should be noted that test equipment devaluates faster than a car. Buying something cheap now and upgrading later may end up costing more compared to a loan. OTOH debt is debt and it causes a long term outgoing cash flow; the business should be able to support that.

You are right that test equipment depreciates pretty fast, but the worst depreciation is with test equipment from the big brands. It's as simple as that, unless it's some exceptionally specialist or rare piece of kit. Big brand scopes are really poor when it comes to depreciation, and funny enough the B-brands tend to lose a lot less over the years (at least what younger test equipment, i.e 5 years or so) is concerned. Not because they hold their value better but because they already start from a much lower price point when new. So based on the purchase price to resale factor alone, big brand scopes fare pretty bad. So there's that.

Considering this is for electronics consulting in (as it seems) a wide and flexible range of areas, it's unlikely to assume that any instrument bought today will satisfy all requirements which come up with the next 10 years, not only because the accelerated progress of technology. With this in mind, it's futile to buy excessively now just to hopefully be "on the safe side" later on. And even if the original assumption turned out to be correct, the feature will very likely have been bought at a premium compared with what it could cost later if it was acquired when it's actually required. So it makes sense to buy something which satisfies the current needs, and when the time comes the instrument no longer suffices then move to something new.

As to getting a loan, there are situations where it certainly can make sense to get a loan to buy better equipment, but frankly based on the requirement (a 350MHz scope for general purpose work) I can't see any justification for that. Getting a gold-plated solution with no need for it is nothing more than a waste of money.

Because of the end of the day, this thing has to amortize over set period (which also depends on the specific country;'s tax laws). Which for a more expensive scope means you either have to use a longer amortization period (if you can, but which also means you might have to stick with it longer than you want to), or you have to charge your customer more (or live with a lower profit).

Quote
To the OP: Regarding the Siglent: one thing to watch out for is that it uses a different memory management compared to the Tektronix you are used to; Siglent typically cuts the memory short to have just enough samples to fit the screen. This has to match your usage. For me this kind of memory management is a hard fail. All in all it still is a good idea to compare several scopes yourself.

The only fly in the ointment here is that most scopes work that way (and I think that others have tried to make you understand this in a long-winded discussion not too long ago). For the simple reason that people normally capture long sequences on a scope and then zoom *in* on the details, while you for some reason seem to insist on capturing short sequences and then zoom out(?) somehow?  :-//

This is true for the majority (all?) scopes out there, maybe aside from the Keysight DSO-X (InfiniVision) Series, which allow no manual memory management whatsoever.

Now as to what Tek does: the MDO3000, like other Tek scopes, have a function called Auto-Magnify, where on very short timebases the scope continues to use the full record length (or appears to, as in reality it doesn't use that short time base). In Auto-Magnify, when you reduce the timebase, the actual time base is also reduced but only until you reach a point where the scope can now achieve the full sample rate. Any further reduction in timebase will then not further reduce the actual time base, but instead the scope shows a zoomed-in screen while capturing at the unchanged timebase setting. Further reducing the timebase just zooms further into the signal.

That's it.

Also, Auto-Magnify doesn't work when zoom mode is enabled, for obvious reasons.

While this is an automatic mode, the *exact* same effect can be achieved with any other scope using the zoom function (turn the timebase up right until the sample rate reaches max, then zoom in).

Which is what most people do anyways.

Quote
I think the R&S RTB2004 also fits the budget without needing a loan.

The RTB is a very basic scope, and the real only thing it has going for it is the 10bit resolution. Aside from the basic functionality, it also lacks an active probe interface or even simple 1M/50ohms switchable inputs.

I can't see how such a basic instrument would fit the requirements.

Quote
If you really need a lot of bandwidth then getting a used higher end oscilloscope is a cheap solution.

As I understand the 350MHz BW is sufficient. But yes, if more BW (a lot more, i.e. >1GHz) is required, the 2nd hand market becomes a great option.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 08:48:51 am by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2995
  • Country: gb
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2020, 08:43:15 am »
Hi All,

Thanks for all your inputs! it is 4.5k Euro and this is the budget I have allocated just for the scope.
Concerning the current probe I would need something > 5Mhz as I do lot of DC/DC.

I am considering at the moment those two options:

1)R&S RTB2000
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTB2K-COM4.html

I wouldn't recommend the RTB2000. It's quite limited in functionality and memory, and lacks an active probe interface or even 1M/50ohms switchable inputs.

Quote
2) SDS5034x bundle:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS5034X.html

I believe this would be a good option for you. It's a very good scope which gives you a lot of functionality, you get active interfaces (adapters for Tek and LeCroy probes are in the pipeline), and you don't need to break the bank.

Quote
Although the RTM3K bundle is really tempting...but would need to gather more $$$
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTM3K-COM4.html

Like the RTB, the RTM has the 10bit resolution going for it, how useful this is for you at this stage is something only you can say. In any case, unlike the RTB2000 this one does have an active probe interface and 1M/50ohms switchable inputs.

If the higher BW is what you're after, there also seems to be an offer for the 1GHz SDS5104X:

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS5104X.html

In any case, try to get some hands-on experience with these scopes. It's a lot of money to just spend blindly.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2020, 09:13:50 am »
Quote
To the OP: Regarding the Siglent: one thing to watch out for is that it uses a different memory management compared to the Tektronix you are used to; Siglent typically cuts the memory short to have just enough samples to fit the screen. This has to match your usage. For me this kind of memory management is a hard fail. All in all it still is a good idea to compare several scopes yourself.

The only fly in the ointment here is that most scopes work that way
Not most. It seems to be about 50/50. Don't try to twist the reality!
And zooming out after a capture is very useful. Trigger on a detail, check if the detail is right / wrong and then zoom out to check whether the rest of the signal is (still) as expected. This is a very efficient way to do design verification.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 09:16:06 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19162
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2020, 09:24:54 am »

Concerning the current probe I would need something > 5Mhz as I do lot of DC/DC.

10A/10mA will do!
Ok, had a look around at a few and unless you spend a bit they all seem to fall flat on their face with poor frequency derating unless they have higher BW's.
I thought Testec from Batronix looked good for the price but nah.  :--
https://www.batronix.com/files/Testec/Manuals/TT-CC_Manual_EN.pdf

Here's Siglent's offerings FWIW:
https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Current_Probes_DataSheet.pdf

How much is too much for a good current probe ?
I've done a bit of 500 KHz DC-DC convertor work too and always got away with a Tek P6021 AC current probe and apart from only being an AC rated probe they still whip most of the current (excuse pun) offerings
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2995
  • Country: gb
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2020, 09:50:35 am »
Quote
To the OP: Regarding the Siglent: one thing to watch out for is that it uses a different memory management compared to the Tektronix you are used to; Siglent typically cuts the memory short to have just enough samples to fit the screen. This has to match your usage. For me this kind of memory management is a hard fail. All in all it still is a good idea to compare several scopes yourself.

The only fly in the ointment here is that most scopes work that way

Not most. It seems to be about 50/50. Don't try to twist the reality!

OK then, please name some makes and models who do not.

Quote
Zooming out after a capture is very useful. Trigger on a detail, check if the detail is right / wrong and then zoom out to check whether the rest of the signal is (still) as expected. This is a very efficient way to do design verification.

Can you explain with what you mean by "trigger on detail"? Because the trigger doesn't care what the actual timebase setting is, so for a trigger to work it makes no difference if you're on a short or a long timebase.

And if you're interested in the complete signal then the logical process is to capture the whole sequence and then zoom *in* on the "detail" you're interested.

It's also what Auto-Magnify on a Tek MDO does: keep the scope on a longer time base and zoom in on the detail. Only difference is that on the MDO it's default behavior.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2020, 09:58:57 am »
And if you're interested in the complete signal then the logical process is to capture the whole sequence and then zoom *in* on the "detail" you're interested.
You are starting to sound like Tautech now. Trying to convince people a hammer is quicker than using a nail gun.

If you are a design engineer then you'd understand that least twiddling with knobs is better to get the job done. Bonus points if a piece of equipment does what you want without needing to care how it is setup exactly; it acquires the data you need. That is what this is all about. If an oscilloscope just captures the full record length you set then the zoom and time base settings don't matter much; you get the data you need. I want to concentrate on the problem at hand, not on the test equipment. Again, these are the little details that make life so much easier which don't make it into the datasheet.

Practical case: check data in an SPI frame. Time base & trigger point set so the data in the SPI frame is visible including timing of the edges. Once the timing is correct set the timebase to a lower time/div to inspect the rest of the signal. Be aware that taking one acquisition may several minutes in some cases. Or more if it is a rare bug. Getting a setting wrong means waiting that several minutes (or longer) again. Taking the oscilloscope's precise setup out of the equation just makes life easier especially if this measurement cycles needs to be repeated several times where it is easy to forget about the oscilloscope's setting. Very important if nobody is paying for the extra time spend on a problem.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 10:21:00 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2995
  • Country: gb
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2020, 10:24:05 am »
And if you're interested in the complete signal then the logical process is to capture the whole sequence and then zoom *in* on the "detail" you're interested.

If you are a design engineer then you'd understand that least twiddling with knobs is better to get the job done. Bonus points if a piece of equipment does what you want without needing to care how it is setup exactly; it acquires the data you need. That is what this is all about. If an oscilloscope just captures the full record length you set then the zoom and time base settings don't matter much; you get the data you need. I want to concentrate on the problem at hand, not the test equipment. Again, these are the little details that make life so much easier which don't make it into the datasheet.

Well, I spend my time with many other things than designing stuff these days, so I'm probably not an authority here, but I don't tend to just "twiddle knobs" without spending a thought on what I actually want to achieve. In fact, I always think about how the scope needs to be configured to show me the data I want first, and then go do it. I'm not the "let's poke in random stuf and see what we get out" type of guy.

Of course, that doesn't really matter for this discussion. But the other thing is that, in three decades of professionally specifying and procuring test equipment for various labs, not *once* did an engineer tell me that he wants a scope where he can "zoom out". Not. A. Single. Time.

Nor have there been any complains about the fact that none of our scopes do what you suggest.

Which tells me that your expectations of how scopes work aren't exactly mainstream ;)

Quote
Practical case: check data in an SPI frame. Time base & trigger point set so the data in the SPI frame is visible including timing of the edges. Once the timing is correct set the timebase to a lower time/div to inspect the rest of the signal.

Good example, but I still fail to see why this is relevant. I can easily trigger to any point in the SPI frame with serial triggering, which works completely independent on the timebase setting (because it follows the data). I set the trigger (plus any pre-trigger period if desired) and aquire the whole sequence, and then zoom in at the point of interest. Simples.

Quote
Remember that taking one acquisition may several minutes in some cases. Gettting a setting wrong means waiting that several minutes again. Taking the oscilloscope's precise setup out of the equation just makes life easier especially if this measurement cycles needs to be repeated several times where it is easy to forget about the oscilloscope's setting. Very important if nobody is paying for the extra time spend on a problem.

I'm sorry I still don't see it. You have to setup the trigger in any case, so there's that. The whole process is exactly the same, with the only difference that you want to start with a close-in and zoom out while I would start with a longer timebase and zoom in.

Let's just assume that we both use a scope which actually does what you want, there would be no time saving whatsoever between our processes, nor would there be a difference in the level of information. It. Just. Doesn't. Matter.

You're not "taking the oscilloscope out of the equation", besides that if you doing measurements without being aware of what your test instrument is setup to isn't exactly best practice.

Now there's then problem is that scopes don't tend to use more memory than what's necessary to fill the screen at the highest possible sample rate on short time bases.

BTW, I'm still waiting for the some examples of scopes (the roughly 50% of all scopes) that actually work as you claim.  ;)

:popcorn:
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 10:35:23 am by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline JPortici

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2671
  • Country: it
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2020, 10:27:58 am »
The RTB is a very basic scope, and the real only thing it has going for it is the 10bit resolution. Aside from the basic functionality, it also lacks an active probe interface or even simple 1M/50ohms switchable inputs.

I can't see how such a basic instrument would fit the requirements.

This. the RTB is really really REALLY basic and fairly slow to operate compared to the sds5000x

Also, most scopes i've had and used work the "siglent" way: older Tek TDS1000/2000/3000, Picoscope, Lecroy (both "REAL" ones with vxWorks and cheaper "firmware based"), ultimately the SDS-5000x
The "keysight" scopes i've used were keysight (duh) and rigol.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 10:33:12 am by JPortici »
 
The following users thanked this post: Wuerstchenhund

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2020, 10:56:51 am »
I'm not going to debate this any further. I have made my position very clear on how to get work done efficiently. It is up to the reader to decide whether this applies to his/her use cases or not.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9894
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2020, 11:12:35 am »
not again! tldr, why if there is a topic like this its treated like a loved wife? if he is really professional, he wouldnt ask in forum, and if he had to he wouldnt post such an open question. let him decide what he like to or not, there are abundant of infos in eevblog alone already. we can only provide infos its not our position to say blue is better than green :palm: if he later figure out its the wrong purchase, let him buy another it will be good for economy of some workers engineers out there...
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31897
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2020, 11:19:29 am »
How much is too much for a good current probe ?
I've done a bit of 500 KHz DC-DC convertor work too and always got away with a Tek P6021 AC current probe and apart from only being an AC rated probe they still whip most of the current (excuse pun) offerings

I have a current probe I'm looking at selling for under US$250 and under $300 for a 2MHz unit.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: 350Mhz Scope, 2020
« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2020, 11:39:40 am »
And zooming out after a capture is very useful. Trigger on a detail, check if the detail is right / wrong and then zoom out to check whether the rest of the signal is (still) as expected. This is a very efficient way to do design verification.

No scope I am aware of does this, they won't capture beyond the screen window. So if your timebase at the capture time is set to 1uS then you only capture 10us or so (can be slightly more) worth of data.
So you can't "zoom out" after capture as there is no data capture at longer timebase settings.
What you do is set a long time base and deep memory, trigger on some event, and then zoom in.
Well, this workflow (zooming out after a capture) is available on many DSOs. It is the standard (or at least configurable) on Tektronix, Rigol, GW Instek, R&S, the older Keysight scopes (DSO7000A / B series and derivatives), the original Siglent SDS2000 series and probably several others. However you have to realise that 'capture outside' the screen only works if there is memory left over after filling the screen. So it won't be the case at time/div settings where the maximum samplerate  is dropped. I have been using DSOs like this forever. I strongly recall being very annoyed by the Siglent SDS2000 not remembering this setting in the early firmware.

Edit: forgot to add MicSig.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 09:24:16 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf