Author Topic: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode  (Read 3160 times)

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Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2019, 05:58:16 am »
There are likely 10s of thousands 1000Z here on the eevblog. 4 is not much.

Wow, wow, tens of thousands on eevblog? I'm not sure about that. What I see is that in this thread, about 40% (guestimate) have it. I suspect many others saw the problem but ignored it (myself included) didn't see the problem because they don't examine wave forms back and forth too much, etc. I could bet this can be solved with the proper understanding of the issue and a new firmware. And I bet a solder issue or a defective memory would popup in some way even without twisting the knob. It must be a marginal timing issue between FPGA and memory that gets exposed in this particular scenario.
That big spark at power up was by design!
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2019, 08:35:39 am »
I suspect many others saw the problem but ignored it (myself included) didn't see the problem because they don't examine wave forms back and forth too much, etc.

Nope. Completely wrong. The DS1054Z has been poked and prodded and analyzed to death here.

If there's four of them in a short space of time then Rigol has messed something up and produced a bad batch.
 
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Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2019, 05:20:14 am »
Oh, yea? I just duplicated it on both Rigols that we have at work. A DS1054 and an MSO1074. I will attach screenshots tonight.  :-DD
That big spark at power up was by design!
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2019, 05:34:06 am »
Oh, yea? I just duplicated it on both Rigols that we have at work. A DS1054 and an MSO1074. I will attach screenshots tonight.

Never mind the screenshots, we believe you. (And if we wouldn't, what would the screenshots prove anyway? :P)

More important: Were these two units purchased recently, or when were they produced and bought? I have only followed this thread superficially, but it seems that so far the problem was observed only in recently produced units?
 

Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2019, 05:40:31 am »
My scope was bought more than a year ago. The last one at work in the last couple of months. The second one at work somewhere in between.

Edit: Actually it is the other way around. The second one in the last couple of months, the first one in between.  :palm:
Edit1: I attached the MSO1074 screenshot.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 08:15:55 am by Miti »
That big spark at power up was by design!
 
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Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2019, 04:32:58 am »
My very responsive vendor replied:

"Rigol managed to duplicate the issue as well.  They aren’t sure what’s causing the issue yet (firmware/hardware).
Its in the hands of their engineering team in China. I’ll let you know what happens as soon as we hear back."
That big spark at power up was by design!
 
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Offline JohnPen

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2019, 04:07:44 am »
I cannot reproduce this on my 4 year old DS1054Z (unlocked and the latest firmware build installed).  Like others have suggested it seems to be related to the more recent DS1054Z models only.
 

Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2019, 05:05:28 am »
Patience is the key word in this case. It took me more than half hour to convince MSO1074.
That big spark at power up was by design!
 

Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2019, 08:16:54 am »
News from my vendor and from Rigol:

"Rigol has confirmed the issue will be fixed in the next firmware update.
We’ll let you know as soon as the firmware update date is announced."
That big spark at power up was by design!
 

Offline nwfall

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2019, 01:19:03 pm »
News from my vendor and from Rigol:

My vendor tells me somewhat the same. Although I've never seen the official answer from Rigol.
Can we trust our vendors? :)

Edit: I'm asking because my buyer protection time is running out. So I have to decide - return the scope in the next two days or to take the seller's word and wait patiently for resolution.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 02:07:03 pm by nwfall »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2019, 04:00:05 pm »
Edit: I'm asking because my buyer protection time is running out. So I have to decide - return the scope in the next two days or to take the seller's word and wait patiently for resolution.

This is a serious problem, I don't imagine they'll take long.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2019, 06:02:56 pm »
Edit: I'm asking because my buyer protection time is running out. So I have to decide - return the scope in the next two days or to take the seller's word and wait patiently for resolution.

This is a serious problem, I don't imagine they'll take long.

Two years ago I reported a serious bug to Rigol that renders the USB connection useless when using a modern pc or laptop.
Rigols' response:

"the bug is confirmed, but it seems to hard to fix it.
A fix will be implemted in new Models, for older ones, no confirmation to
have a fix available soon."

It's also in the buglist here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-buglist-continued-(from-fw-00-04-04-03-02)/

(item 8 )
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2019, 06:38:58 pm »
Two years ago I reported a serious bug to Rigol that renders the USB connection useless when using a modern pc or laptop.
Rigols' response:

Doesn't seem serious to me.  :popcorn:

 

Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2019, 09:09:05 pm »
Two things just crossed my mind... not much traffic there, you may say:
1. What are the chances that Rigol didn't know about this bug. I think most likely they kept it shush until someone complained.
2. Even if it is a hardware issue that affects, say, 60% of all oscilloscopes in the series, and Rigol knows that, do you think they would recall all of them? They would rather promise a software fix which would never happen. Ooops, we thought we fixed it ....well, next time.
That big spark at power up was by design!
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2019, 10:27:31 pm »
Two things just crossed my mind... not much traffic there, you may say:
1. What are the chances that Rigol didn't know about this bug. I think most likely they kept it shush until someone complained.

Quite high, they've been making these things for years and this bug only just appeared.

 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2019, 12:11:39 pm »
I'm amazed at how many bugs could be caught by just viewing a few quality square waves by eye before scopes leave the factory, they wouldn't even have to test every one. Do they even turn them on. >:D
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2019, 04:47:00 pm »

I highly doubt they knew about it.  As Miti said himself, you have to do something specific for a long time to provoke it.  And if someone did see something  odd, they probably weren't sure what was going on, and reacquired new capture, it was OK and they moved on..

While I understand that type usage is perfectly normal, it is not the usual way people use scopes. I never capture single image and then go back and forth through it for half an hour.
Screen is small and I use Picoscope for that kind of work, or if I didn't have one, would download waveform from scope to PC.
It seems logical not to catch this one early.

But, people put effort in,proved bug is there and work was done to report it and Rigol confirmed it and committed to fix it.
Thanks to those who made it happen.

Now we just need for Rigol to do it's thing.
 

Offline nwfall

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2019, 07:42:43 pm »
Ok, I just had a reply from RIGOL. They say: "we think that it's software bug, and our team is under studying the solution now, please wait a moment, thanks"
What do you think, what are our chances?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2019, 07:50:43 pm »
Ok, I just had a reply from RIGOL. They say: "we think that it's software bug, and our team is under studying the solution now, please wait a moment, thanks"

There's multiple reports and everybody so far has said it goes away when the 'scope warms up. A timing issue in a particular batch of chips is a reasonable explanation.

If it can be fixed in firmware then Rigol has dodged a bullet.

What do you think, what are our chances?

What are your chances of what, exactly...?
 

Offline nwfall

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2019, 07:54:49 pm »
it goes away when the 'scope warms up
Mine doesn't  :(

What are your chances of what, exactly...?
That this issue is fixable with firmware
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2019, 08:19:47 pm »
it goes away when the 'scope warms up
Mine doesn't  :(

 :(

What are your chances of what, exactly...?
That this issue is fixable with firmware

My finger-in-the-air guess for what's causing this is the way their FPGA compiler has distributed the blocks inside the chip with this particular firmware release. You can get signal timing issues inside an FPGA if you don't pay attention to the physical position of the blocks inside the chip.

https://www.nutaq.com/blog/xilinx-system-generator-tips-and-tricks-%E2%80%93-part-4-understanding-timing-issues

If this is the problem: They simply need to figure out where it's happening, tweak the layout constraints/hints in the source code, recompile, fixed!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 11:08:59 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Miti

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2019, 04:52:14 am »
There's multiple reports and everybody so far has said it goes away when the 'scope warms up. A timing issue in a particular batch of chips is a reasonable explanation

On my scope the issue goes away when it is warm, on another one at work it is the other way around.
That big spark at power up was by design!
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2019, 06:20:30 am »
Mine is 8 months old, tried it on startup just now, didn't try it after extended warmup.  No I don't have the HV calibrator option--my probe setting is still set at 100X.  It appears to me that the "corruption", at least in my case, is extraneous garbage on the display, as the waveform seems OK behind it. 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 07:20:15 am by bdunham7 »
 

Offline jbtronics

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Re: Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2019, 09:06:57 pm »
I have now noticed that the data in memory is corrupt when only one channel is activated. As soon as another channel is activated, the data is OK. The screen data is always OK.
I have the firmware 04.04.03.05 and the data was correct before. Looks a lot like the same mistake.

Edit: The memory should be larger than 1 MB.

Peter

On my scope the glitches also occurs, when two channels are enabled. (Firmware Version 00.04.04.SP4. Board Version 0.1.4)

Interesting is ,that it seems, that much less glitches occur, when High Res mode is enabled.
Generally the glitches only occurs, when the timebase is changed very quickly. When it is changed slowly then almost no glitches occur.
 


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