Author Topic: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope  (Read 10712 times)

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Offline TK

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2018, 02:56:39 pm »
I think Spear600 is old compared to new CPUs running faster and with more cores and Probably the old Windows CE was a better fit.  That is why I asked about the responsiveness as it seems Linux is heavier and the same reason for it to take 1 min to boot might impact on the performance of the scope app
 

Offline ginbot86

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2018, 03:32:45 pm »
What a twist, the new scope runs Linux. I guess that makes sense, with WinCE 6 reaching EOL, and STMicro advertises that their SPEAr600 supports Linux anyway. I wonder how Linux takes advantage of the processor's two cores (to my knowledge, WinCE 6 didn't support multi-core processing).

I guess that means we'll need a different approach to run Doom on Keysight's newer lineup of scopes. ;)
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Initialization Failed: Insufficient caffeine in system.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #77 on: December 31, 2018, 08:13:35 pm »
I think Spear600 is old compared to new CPUs running faster and with more cores and Probably the old Windows CE was a better fit.  That is why I asked about the responsiveness as it seems Linux is heavier and the same reason for it to take 1 min to boot might impact on the performance of the scope app
Linux doesn't have to be heavier. That is nonsense. Also the boot time of a Linux system is defined by the speed of the flash being used. Put a Sata SSD in an embedded Linux system and it wil start in seconds. Besides that the oscilloscope likely does a quick self test during starting.
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Offline LapTop006

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #78 on: January 01, 2019, 01:06:21 am »
I think Spear600 is old compared to new CPUs running faster and with more cores and Probably the old Windows CE was a better fit.  That is why I asked about the responsiveness as it seems Linux is heavier and the same reason for it to take 1 min to boot might impact on the performance of the scope app
Linux doesn't have to be heavier. That is nonsense. Also the boot time of a Linux system is defined by the speed of the flash being used. Put a Sata SSD in an embedded Linux system and it wil start in seconds. Besides that the oscilloscope likely does a quick self test during starting.

Ideally sure, but there's plenty of ways a default normal Linux system is slower to boot than it needs to be for fixed hardware configurations (scanning busses that will never be used etc.)

*Done well* there should be minimal practical differences between WinCE and Linux, but if you just use a generic kernel & image (or without systemd which for all its faults is normally faster) it probably is slower.
 

Offline TK

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2019, 01:36:21 am »
I think Spear600 is old compared to new CPUs running faster and with more cores and Probably the old Windows CE was a better fit.  That is why I asked about the responsiveness as it seems Linux is heavier and the same reason for it to take 1 min to boot might impact on the performance of the scope app
Linux doesn't have to be heavier. That is nonsense. Also the boot time of a Linux system is defined by the speed of the flash being used. Put a Sata SSD in an embedded Linux system and it wil start in seconds. Besides that the oscilloscope likely does a quick self test during starting.
What I meant is that PROBABLY the specific Linux distro in use is heavier than Windows CE on the SPEAR600 that the Keysight scope uses. 

I know it can be made to boot in 10 seconds like the R&S or the Micsig TO1000 scopes, probably by using some battery backed memory to keep persistent code and data in memory saved for the next boot.  I wonder if R&S scope takes longer to boot after a firmware update or the update process per se stores certain code & data in persistent memory.

But if they decided to go with the 60 seconds boot time, then there must be hardware limitations on the current SPEAR600 + flash + ASIC interface to implement specific techniques like smartphones or tablets.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2019, 03:32:36 am »
Daniel says there is an update coming soon to improve boot time.
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Online maginnovision

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #81 on: January 01, 2019, 05:22:13 am »
I think Spear600 is old compared to new CPUs running faster and with more cores and Probably the old Windows CE was a better fit.  That is why I asked about the responsiveness as it seems Linux is heavier and the same reason for it to take 1 min to boot might impact on the performance of the scope app
Linux doesn't have to be heavier. That is nonsense. Also the boot time of a Linux system is defined by the speed of the flash being used. Put a Sata SSD in an embedded Linux system and it wil start in seconds. Besides that the oscilloscope likely does a quick self test during starting.
What I meant is that PROBABLY the specific Linux distro in use is heavier than Windows CE on the SPEAR600 that the Keysight scope uses. 

I know it can be made to boot in 10 seconds like the R&S or the Micsig TO1000 scopes, probably by using some battery backed memory to keep persistent code and data in memory saved for the next boot.  I wonder if R&S scope takes longer to boot after a firmware update or the update process per se stores certain code & data in persistent memory.

But if they decided to go with the 60 seconds boot time, then there must be hardware limitations on the current SPEAR600 + flash + ASIC interface to implement specific techniques like smartphones or tablets.

The R&S are always fast. They don't use linux either.
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #82 on: January 01, 2019, 12:03:48 pm »
R&S uses freeRTOS or something similar (it's listed in the open source acknowledgement thing). The boot time is always fast, and i don't think it saves anything between boots to do it. Definitely nice to have it that quick but I think Linux is also a reasonable choice if optimised well - boot times aren't everything.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #83 on: January 02, 2019, 11:16:34 am »
I still love my Agilent DSOX2002A introduced 8 years ago. Is there a successor coming?
On the other hand, Tektronix still has no successor for that MSO2000B from 2008 or so. And they still produce TDS3000 from 1998! https://uk.tek.com/oscilloscope/tds3000
OK, they changed the floppy drive for an USB port.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 11:20:20 am by Hydrawerk »
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Offline Aidanator7000

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2019, 03:09:24 pm »
it appears they launched it today.
 
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2019, 03:15:50 pm »
"Protocol Trigger & Decodes    I²C, SPI, UART and CAN, LIN (optional)" Oh?

Sounds like they're dropping their 2000 series. In the 1000X flyer it says "Need more bandwidth, sampling rate, and analysis? Consider the InfiniiVision 3000T X-Series"
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 03:18:42 pm by Mr. Scram »
 

Online maginnovision

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2019, 04:43:37 pm »
"Protocol Trigger & Decodes    I²C, SPI, UART and CAN, LIN (optional)" Oh?

Sounds like they're dropping their 2000 series. In the 1000X flyer it says "Need more bandwidth, sampling rate, and analysis? Consider the InfiniiVision 3000T X-Series"
The landing page for 1000x still shows 2000x as need more... Although the only thing the 1000x now don't have the 2000 do is 8ch MSO... I wouldn't blame them if the did drop the 2000.

Edit: My bad, the 2000 also has up to 4x the wfms/s
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 04:46:37 pm by maginnovision »
 

Offline Eric_S

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2019, 07:01:59 pm »
Like I said earlier, it wouldn't surprise me to see a new arch show up for the rest of the X-line within a year or two. But who knows. I've been wrong before, yhey might have decided that they want to thin out the linup also. :)

I could see a split like this being a thing, otherwise:

x1000 old arch, no probe compensation
x2000 new arch, +DSO, still no probe comp
x3000 new arch, +probe comp, +50 Ohm.
x4000 new arch, +bigger screen + really deep mem, +additional arb port.
x6000 new arch, up to 8 channels.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2019, 12:24:44 am »
Well, I still do not see much reasons to buy this scope instead of DSOX2000 series, when it is based on the same ASIC. Maybe if you need a little 4 channel scope. 1000x has only 150Vrms input voltage. DSOX2000 has 300Vrms probably, the datasheet is a bit unclear. Yes the 1000x is a lot cheaper.
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Offline LapTop006

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2019, 01:43:53 am »
Like I said earlier, it wouldn't surprise me to see a new arch show up for the rest of the X-line within a year or two. But who knows. I've been wrong before, yhey might have decided that they want to thin out the linup also. :)

I could see a split like this being a thing, otherwise:

x1000 old arch, no probe compensation
x2000 new arch, +DSO, still no probe comp
x3000 new arch, +probe comp, +50 Ohm.
x4000 new arch, +bigger screen + really deep mem, +additional arb port.
x6000 new arch, up to 8 channels.

I assume by "probe comp" you're really meaning AutoProbe (at least the more limited version the 3/4/6 series has).

The list you have does roughly make sense, I'd probably say new 4k probably keeps at least a small bandwidth bump over 3k.

It's the 6k I'm not sure about, it's a wonderful scope (I love mine), but it's very close in many ways to the S-series, so it would need something special to keep it post-refresh, especially if the 4k was also being kept. One possibility might be to somehow allow the scope to be hooked up to a Windows PC via thunderbolt (external PCIe) to turn it into a full Windows-running scope when needed.

I'd also guess that we'd see the models released in the same order as they were for the current run, so a 2k & 3k first, then about a year later a 4k, and another year or two for the 6k, and as old as these models are, other than perhaps competing with the (lower end of the) new Tek 5k series at the high end, and some of the R&S units, I don't think the pressure is there to move as fast as they could.

Remember there's been no firmware update since late 2017 for most of these models.
 

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2019, 05:30:29 am »
We don't plan to drop the 2000 X-Series right now, but it definitely will make sense for a lot of people to go with the 1000X. A lot has changed in the last 8-10 years, so the 1000 X-Series makes more business sense today than it did in 2012 with the series was first launched.

The big draw for the 6000 X-Series is that it's a cheap way to get to 6 GHz. Most people in that space will opt for the S-Series, though.
 
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #91 on: January 10, 2019, 10:18:46 am »
Well, I still do not see much reasons to buy this scope instead of DSOX2000 series, when it is based on the same ASIC. Maybe if you need a little 4 channel scope. 1000x has only 150Vrms input voltage. DSOX2000 has 300Vrms probably, the datasheet is a bit unclear. Yes the 1000x is a lot cheaper.
There you go. You get almost the same for a lot less. Unless you require those differences or money isn't an object, the 1000X series is hard to beat.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2019, 11:15:31 am »
It surprises me we haven't seen this one pop up in reviews or teardowns yet, as they seem to be for sale already.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2019, 10:04:54 pm »
It surprises me we haven't seen this one pop up in reviews or teardowns yet, as they seem to be for sale already.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2019, 10:11:55 am »
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 
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Online KC0PPH

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #95 on: March 15, 2019, 02:26:28 am »
Has anyone hacked this scope yet? Did some searching but have not found anything.

Considering the DSO5000 from Rigol or the 1204X if it can be hacked to 200Mhz and the Protocal Analyzer opened up.
 

Offline TK

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2019, 05:51:26 am »
I own the EDUX1002G, then purchased MSO5074 from Rigol... for me, it is not near the usability of the Keysight... it can be hacked to have tons of features, but it is slow and the serial protocol decoding a toy.  I am about to return it

The EDUX1002G hacked and with some hardware mods can have 2.5 channels and it is a pleasure and fun to use.  The Rigol is giving me headaches, you don't know what you are getting from the scope, you are always wondering if what is showing is accurate or not.
 
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Offline pansku

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #97 on: March 21, 2019, 01:16:29 am »
I can hardly wait to receive mine  :popcorn: @Keysight DanielBogdanoff do you know wether the contest scopes are fully kitted out or do I need to contact a local distributor to buy serial decoding (SPI, I2C and UART)?
 

Online Bud

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #98 on: March 21, 2019, 01:21:41 am »
The Rigol is giving me headaches, you don't know what you are getting from the scope, you are always wondering if what is showing is accurate or not.

I said that shortly after rigol cheapies flooded the market and contaminated brains on this forum. And i provided hands  on evidence in my "Project Yaigol" forensic post (which can be found by searching this forum). I said people will be puppy happy until this rigol junk will start affecting their performance by dragging them back, when instead of working on the projects they will be working on fighting their rigol junk scope. For which i was beaten by rigol fan boys. I am glad my predictions were correct.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 01:27:02 am by Bud »
 
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Offline TK

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Re: 4 channel Keysight 1000x series scope
« Reply #99 on: March 21, 2019, 05:52:49 am »
Yes, my Rigol MSO5074 is on its way back to where it came from, for good.  No more Yaigol for me.
 


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