Hello everyone, I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope

[pcprogrammer]

Exactly. Go buy a Keysight for $20,000, and you still need updates for basic functions, or bug fixes.

No, it isn't awesome. But that is why a promise for updates is required. Otherwise, your only option is to wait for 5 years after a product is released and buy it then IF they fixed everything.

Buy a similar priced Yokogawa and it is more likely to be bug free. I have not found bugs in mine so far.

What model is your Yokogawa?

It is an oldie, but very good one. A DL9705L, 5GS/s, 500MHz and 32 channel logic analyzer.

[mehdifat]

But so far, the text has shown that we should throw away old products. And buy new ones, but if they sell poorly, we should throw them away too. Hopefully, the approach will change.

i doubt it will change. just look at the attitude that the so called developer shows here.

[Atlan]

But they don’t.
It is as simple as that.
And it reflects in its price.

Maybe we (you) should have more respect for people like OP that are willing to invest quite some money into your hobby.

1-it isn't my hobby i actually use the device for my work.

2- i didn't disrespect him. i asked him a question about firmware update very respectfully and he didn't have the courage to answer me directly. it was actually pcprogrammer who answered me saying no. my special respect is for someone like atlan. just look what he did and still does with the crappy firmware that yangyao originally wrote. yangyao was so naive and irresponsible that actually wrote a crappy firmware to cripple the device when measuring low amplitude voltage lower than around 30 to40mv at 1X or 300 to 400mv at 10X.
Atlan fixed it. Atlan fixed a lot of things for no money. He actually cared about us and still kindly is supporting the device while he never got any money. I didn’t install his firmware because of my own skills being not high enough and ther reasons in my previous posts, but even by looking at the pics of his alternate firmware one can easily see how great and professional this man’s firmware and skills are. I wish he had time to implement Peak Detect mode but honestly this man has done way more than fnirsi and yangyao have done for a device that they are paid for not Atlan. so I have special respect for Atlan but yangyao disrespected his customers by making crap. He actually believes this device to have inherently bad hardware and still sold/sells lies to people but offers no support. He just made some crap and left it there.

2-cheap or expensive is relative. Not only in western developed countries it may be cheap but in my country it is not, but also nowadays, selling a real 100mhz portable oscilloscope is nothing special. every other Chinese company is doing it and they are not lying about the specs. gone are the days when a 100 dollar 100mhz oscilloscope was considered cheap even in the west. now everyone is doing it and doing it way better than 1013d which is sold today. selling this device with 40Mhz real bandwidth is like selling a cellphone width 2MP front camera and no selfie one for 100 dollars, while other cellphones have way better cameras and less price. This is simply the evolution of technology and it’s affect in prices. so justifying a 40Mhz device in 2025 with 130Dollar price with no support is just not acceptable. they never offered any meaningful support ever did they?! it was pcprogrammer and specially atlan who offered support.

The PC Programmer did most of the work. Without him, there would be nothing to build on.

[mehdifat]

Why are there so many claims that FNIRSI do not support their products?

DSO-153: 7 firmware updates
2C53T: 2 firmware updates
LCR-P1: 5 firmware updates
LCR-ST1: 4 firmware updates
DMC-100: 3 firmware updates
DMT-99: 3 firmware updates
HS-01: 3 firmware updates
FNB58: 4 firmware updates
DPOX180H: 3 firmware updates

And I could go on and on.  I see some very old products never got any updates, but they probably didn't include a way to do updates.  However, it seems they learned something along the way and all their newer products can accept updates and they seem to be providing them.

go compare FNB 58 with Witrn U3 updates friend. i have both Witrn U3 and FNB 58. FNB 58 just bites the dust somewhere in the corner while U3 has so many updates you can not count. evey new charger protocol is updated while FNB58 still can not trigger Xiaomi 120W and some 67W chargers for example. both are about the same price but Fniris just doesn't care. it is not about money it is about them being responsible or not.

DPOX180H updates, haha go see the bugs and the great developer's answer man.

[mehdifat]

But they don’t.
It is as simple as that.
And it reflects in its price.

Maybe we (you) should have more respect for people like OP that are willing to invest quite some money into your hobby.

1-it isn't my hobby i actually use the device for my work.

2- i didn't disrespect him. i asked him a question about firmware update very respectfully and he didn't have the courage to answer me directly. it was actually pcprogrammer who answered me saying no. my special respect is for someone like atlan. just look what he did and still does with the crappy firmware that yangyao originally wrote. yangyao was so naive and irresponsible that actually wrote a crappy firmware to cripple the device when measuring low amplitude voltage lower than around 30 to40mv at 1X or 300 to 400mv at 10X.
Atlan fixed it. Atlan fixed a lot of things for no money. He actually cared about us and still kindly is supporting the device while he never got any money. I didn’t install his firmware because of my own skills being not high enough and ther reasons in my previous posts, but even by looking at the pics of his alternate firmware one can easily see how great and professional this man’s firmware and skills are. I wish he had time to implement Peak Detect mode but honestly this man has done way more than fnirsi and yangyao have done for a device that they are paid for not Atlan. so I have special respect for Atlan but yangyao disrespected his customers by making crap. He actually believes this device to have inherently bad hardware and still sold/sells lies to people but offers no support. He just made some crap and left it there.

2-cheap or expensive is relative. Not only in western developed countries it may be cheap but in my country it is not, but also nowadays, selling a real 100mhz portable oscilloscope is nothing special. every other Chinese company is doing it and they are not lying about the specs. gone are the days when a 100 dollar 100mhz oscilloscope was considered cheap even in the west. now everyone is doing it and doing it way better than 1013d which is sold today. selling this device with 40Mhz real bandwidth is like selling a cellphone width 2MP front camera and no selfie one for 100 dollars, while other cellphones have way better cameras and less price. This is simply the evolution of technology and it’s affect in prices. so justifying a 40Mhz device in 2025 with 130Dollar price with no support is just not acceptable. they never offered any meaningful support ever did they?! it was pcprogrammer and specially atlan who offered support.

The PC Programmer did most of the work. Without him, there would be nothing to build on.

yeah forgot to say you and The PC Programmer . sorry my bad. thank you both for great work man

[Atlan]

But so far, the text has shown that we should throw away old products. And buy new ones, but if they sell poorly, we should throw them away too. Hopefully, the approach will change.

i doubt it will change. just look at the attitude that the so called developer shows here.

At least now I know what people expect. It's possible to change that. And we'll soon have the opportunity to read reviews on the 350 and see how it really is.

[pcprogrammer]

hello. it's good to be able to the developer directly . thanks for opening a line .
considering that 1013d is still being sold and not as a device for children and it really has it's uses(i test power supply  and chargers with it like ripple and noise and transient response and rise time...), will you update it's firmware?

when i contacted fnirsi about the missing features or bugs like peak detect mode acquisition mode and low voltage detection(the scope simply ignores about 300mv at 10x or 30mv at 1x), they said a new firmware will come. will you kindly provide better firmware?

There is nothing that the Chinese cannot promise you. Forget it, the 1013D is dead. It would require new firmware for the fpga and a program for the uP, and the bus between the fpga and the uP is narrow.

you are right man. he is completely irresponsible and Fnirsi is no different. he is the same man who made a crap firmware that cripples low voltage amplitude detection in his own designed, 1013d. what a joke this is. he and Fnirsi are a good match for each other when it comes to produce a device and leave it there for others to fix!
look at this sentence from him:"Why haven't I updated it? Because the sales
are too terrible". he is just completely irresponsible.

It is not the crap firmware that is the problem with the low voltage measurements, it is the crap hardware. The same goes for peak detection. It depends a bit on what your ideas are on the peak detection, but if it is needed to be a form of trigger, then it is not possible with the current hardware configuration. As is one can only search through a just made acquisition and look for a peak within the samples, and report this peak to the user. Probably not very useful with only 3000 samples.

As a side remark, sure Atlan deserves respect, but he is building further on my source code and has no or little insight in the original FNIRSI firmware, so your other post is not to accurate on that issue. And I think Atlan is not doing it to please others here on the forum, but more as a hobby and or learning experience, just like I did. That others benefit from it, is just a side effect. For me it was born out of need due to a defective touch panel.

And blaming a manufacturer for not putting time into a product that does not sell well does not stick. It is just good business sense from a money and profit perspective. No lives are on stake with a product like this, so irresponsible, no I don't think so.

Edit: I wrote this while Atlan made his post, so I missed that he already corrected mehdifat.

[pcprogrammer]

But so far, the text has shown that we should throw away old products. And buy new ones, but if they sell poorly, we should throw them away too. Hopefully, the approach will change.

i doubt it will change. just look at the attitude that the so called developer shows here.

At least now I know what people expect. It's possible to change that. And we'll soon have the opportunity to read reviews on the 350 and see how it really is.

I'm not going to hold my breath. Did you notice that he shows the main function of the 350 in his first post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hello-everyone-i-am-the-developer-of-dpos350p-and-dpox180h/msg5874066/#msg5874066

[mehdifat]

hello. it's good to be able to the developer directly . thanks for opening a line .
considering that 1013d is still being sold and not as a device for children and it really has it's uses(i test power supply  and chargers with it like ripple and noise and transient response and rise time...), will you update it's firmware?

when i contacted fnirsi about the missing features or bugs like peak detect mode acquisition mode and low voltage detection(the scope simply ignores about 300mv at 10x or 30mv at 1x), they said a new firmware will come. will you kindly provide better firmware?

There is nothing that the Chinese cannot promise you. Forget it, the 1013D is dead. It would require new firmware for the fpga and a program for the uP, and the bus between the fpga and the uP is narrow.

you are right man. he is completely irresponsible and Fnirsi is no different. he is the same man who made a crap firmware that cripples low voltage amplitude detection in his own designed, 1013d. what a joke this is. he and Fnirsi are a good match for each other when it comes to produce a device and leave it there for others to fix!
look at this sentence from him:"Why haven't I updated it? Because the sales
are too terrible". he is just completely irresponsible.

It is not the crap firmware that is the problem with the low voltage measurements, it is the crap hardware. The same goes for peak detection. It depends a bit on what your ideas are on the peak detection, but if it is needed to be a form of trigger, then it is not possible with the current hardware configuration. As is one can only search through a just made acquisition and look for a peak within the samples, and report this peak to the user. Probably not very useful with only 3000 samples.

As a side remark, sure Atlan deserves respect, but he is building further on my source code and has no or little insight in the original FNIRSI firmware, so your other post is not to accurate on that issue. And I think Atlan is not doing it to please others here on the forum, but more as a hobby and or learning experience, just like I did. That others benefit from it, is just a side effect. For me it was born out of need due to a defective touch panel.

And blaming a manufacturer for not putting time into a product that does not sell well does not stick. It is just good business sense from a money and profit perspective. No lives are on stake with a product like this, so irresponsible, no I don't think so.

Edit: I wrote this while Atlan made his post, so I missed that he already corrected mehdifat.

you made great work sorry i forgot to mention i already said that. for whatever reason you did, it was better than Fnirsi. the hardware is crap but still can detect low voltage firmware. peak detect is not needed for triggering at all. it just detects peak of the amplitude with longer time base and less sample rate. Fnirsi is irresponsible man whether sells good or not. it is still selling it so i doubt it is selling bad!

[KungFuJosh]

1-it isn't my hobby i actually use the device for my work.

Yikes.

[mehdifat]

1-it isn't my hobby i actually use the device for my work.

Yikes.

average income in my country is 100 to 150 Dollars per month so we have to be careful with how we spend money

[Bud]

How much do you pay for a loaf of bread? For a dozen eggs? Litre of milk?

[mehdifat]

How much do you pay for a loaf of bread? For a dozen eggs? Litre of milk?

a loaf of bread? around 0.2 dollars for a type of bread called Sangak. there are other types too.


dozen eggs? around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.

a Litre of milk?  around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.

prices are not absolute. these are the ower prices and even these prices change because of bad economy

[KungFuJosh]

1-it isn't my hobby i actually use the device for my work.

Yikes.

average income in my country is 100 to 150 Dollars per month so we have to be careful with how we spend money

I can see why you're in such a tough situation when it comes to scope choices for your business.

[Bud]

How much do you pay for a loaf of bread? For a dozen eggs? Litre of milk?

a loaf of bread? around 0.2 dollars for a type of bread called Sangak. there are other types too.

dozen eggs? around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.

a Litre of milk?  around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.

prices are not absolute. these are the ower prices and even these prices change because of bad economy

There you go. Here we pay 5 to 10 times more for the same. That makes your $150 equivalent of our $1500. You guys spend much less for living.

[mehdifat]

How much do you pay for a loaf of bread? For a dozen eggs? Litre of milk?

a loaf of bread? around 0.2 dollars for a type of bread called Sangak. there are other types too.

dozen eggs? around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.

a Litre of milk?  around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.

prices are not absolute. these are the ower prices and even these prices change because of bad economy

There you go. Here we pay 5 to 10 times more for the same. That makes your $150 equivalent of our $1500. You guys spend much less for living.

we spend much more for home or shop rent. the least for and old and low quality home is 100 dollars a month. most are paying way more. a shop to work in? go above 2000 dollars a month. in my country no average man will ever buy a house. a crappy car called 206 (Iranian made one not the original France version) is about 80000 dollars. yet average income is just 100 to 150 dollars. no matter how much more you pay for bread, your average income and life quality is way more. many people no longer can buy meat. so there is no comparison here my friend. you better be realistic.

[csuhi17]

DPOX180H does have some problems. Why haven't I updated it? Because the sales are too terrible. The dealers sell it at a very high price. A handheld oscilloscope can't survive at this price. So I have given up on DPOX180H and haven't produced it for nearly a year.

How many units do you expect to sell in order to support the DPOS350P with updates and bug fixes?

I only checked the sales on the two places I have access to, Bangood and Aliexpress, and there were already more than 2000 units sold there, of the new design, I can't even find the old one.

I can't track the ones sold in Hungary, and there are other sites.

I estimated the sales at more than 100,000 units.

Since the DPOS350P is more expensive, you can expect much fewer products sold.

How many of them do you need to sell per month to keep the support up?

How long do you plan to support the product?

[Fungus]

What do you think of this appearance (some details are not yet completed), 350MHz version

I really, really like the probe connectors on the top on my Micsig. It takes a lot less space on the bench than front connectors.

(the wires go to the back then around the side)

[BillyO]

That makes your $150 equivalent of our $1500.

$1500/month works out the $18K per year.  Quite a bit lower than minimum wage in Canada where the average is about $70K - or around $5,800/month.  We have it much better than in Iran.  Much!

[MathWizard]

Ok I'm forgetting how early digital made it's way into scopes, even with just 100MHz BW. So I see the HP-185B is listed as the 1st 1GHz scope 1962, I wonder if it has any early digital stuff, I'm just looking at the service manual.

https://hparchive.com/Manuals/HP-185B-Manual.pdf

[pcprogrammer]

Older high bandwidth scopes used a technique called equivalent time sampling. This is basically only suitable for capturing repetitive signals. It won't capture a glitch unless that just happens to be on a sample moment.

In a nutshell, normal sampling is based on taking multiple equally spaced samples of a single period of a signal to allow reconstruction of it. With equivalent time sampling the multiple samples are taken over multiple periods of a signal with a variable delay between the samples. The waveform is then constructed with the use of these samples to make up a single period.

There is a lot of information on this subject that can be found on the internet.