Author Topic: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?  (Read 27202 times)

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Offline NANDBlog

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2015, 10:58:01 pm »
One only has to see the fan on the side of the Rigol :)

Forced airflow in a precision measurement device = terrible idea. Lots of issues with EMF, thermal cycles, noise (acoustic and electromagnetic).

The Agilent/Keysight 34461A has a fan in it, with it blowing air directly across the current resistors and towards the voltage reference.
Even the HP 3458A has a fan in it...
If I could choose between a Rigol and an Agilent (or whatever it is called this week), I would not think twice about it. BTW doesnt Farnell have this "buy now, pay later" on Agilent stuff?
 

Offline orin

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2015, 10:59:08 pm »
One only has to see the fan on the side of the Rigol :)

Forced airflow in a precision measurement device = terrible idea. Lots of issues with EMF, thermal cycles, noise (acoustic and electromagnetic).

The Agilent/Keysight 34461A has a fan in it, with it blowing air directly across the current resistors and towards the voltage reference.


Don't sit a 34461A next to a running HP 8568A... the reading will change by several ppm.

I agree that the trend chart is brilliant, but flawed - they need to allow and display one more significant digit for the Y-axis center/range.  Too often I get three identical labels on the Y-axis and have to go to the range settings to find out what the span actually is.


 

Offline Noise Floor

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2015, 11:14:39 pm »
Is 6.5 all you need?  Keithley just introduced a new 7.5 (DMM7510) that looks like it could be snazzy , pretty pricey though. 

If 6.5 floats your boat you could try and win the 34461A here  O0:
http://www.keysight.com/main/campaign.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2546024



 

Online nctnico

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2015, 11:23:40 pm »
6.5 digits is already a slight overkill. I do expect to do measurements which need to run for a day or two so some longer term stability is definitely a plus.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Hugoneus

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2015, 01:53:58 am »
Shahriar/TheSignalPath reviewed the DM3068 here: http://thesignalpath.com/blogs/2012/07/02/rigol-dm3068-6-5-digit-digital-multimeter-review/, but he is sponsored by Rigol (not really doubting his objectivity, just when you are sponsored it's tough to be fully honest, even if it's subconscious).

How did you come to the conclusion that I am in any way sponsored by Rigol? I review instruments from nearly every manufacturer: Keysight, Rigol, Tektronix, Keithley, Saleae, Siglent just to name a few.

My tests are scientific, my experiments are industry and research relevant. It is up to YOU to make up your mind if the instrument meets your needs. The whole point of doing a > 1 Hour review with several test setups is to stress the instrument and show it in real-life scenarios.

Dave does the same thing, he goes out of his way to try to make an instrument fail. I appreciate that in him and therefore trust his judgment.

No manufacturer has ever paid me a cent. They often donate the equipment which in turn I use for future elaborate tests and educational videos. The Signal Path loses money in fact, out of my own pocket.

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2015, 02:05:21 am »
The Signal Path loses money in fact, out of my own pocket.

I am thankful you were able to clear that up. The information you have presented in all of your videos is very relevant and useful - much appreciated. I can see the the many, many hours spent prepping for the 1 hour segments. Experiments don't design themselves.

If it ever comes down to it, take donations. Any sponsors will spoil a great thing.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline BillyD

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2015, 02:19:47 am »
Removed discussion regarding sponsorship removed, as there is no sponsorship involved.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 11:14:31 pm by BillyD »
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2015, 03:04:59 am »
6.5 digits is already a slight overkill.

Yes, but if you use that old metrology rule of thumb where your device is 10X the accuracy of your measurement, then it's not so silly. 
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2015, 03:21:57 am »
6.5 digits is already a slight overkill.

Not at all.
Even for very basic stuff, a 6.5 digit meter can be very useful.
For example, being able to see the rate of discharge on a battery with minimal drain. a 50,000 count meter won't show a thing, but a 5,000,000 count meter will show a nice trend downwards. You need resolution to do this, not accuracy. But accuracy (and hence cost) usually comes along with resolution.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2015, 03:29:53 am »
I suggest the poster and/or moderators should edit or delete the untrue posts.

This is not a job for moderators. If it was, no conversations would ever take place in a forum.
 

Offline dadler

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2015, 08:51:46 pm »
Shahriar/TheSignalPath reviewed the DM3068 here: http://thesignalpath.com/blogs/2012/07/02/rigol-dm3068-6-5-digit-digital-multimeter-review/, but he is sponsored by Rigol (not really doubting his objectivity, just when you are sponsored it's tough to be fully honest, even if it's subconscious).

How did you come to the conclusion that I am in any way sponsored by Rigol? I review instruments from nearly every manufacturer: Keysight, Rigol, Tektronix, Keithley, Saleae, Siglent just to name a few.

.....

No manufacturer has ever paid me a cent. They often donate the equipment which in turn I use for future elaborate tests and educational videos. The Signal Path loses money in fact, out of my own pocket.

I was also surprised to see this accusation. Quite nasty of the poster to casually make statements like that without bothering to check into it, especially considering how much it could harm the reputation and credibility of the signal path blog.
I suggest the poster and/or moderators should edit or delete the untrue posts.

I found the "sponsorship" reference online in reference to that particular video review, when researching the same DMMs. I think I assumed it was common knowledge (I am new) that he was *literally* sponsored, in the formal sense. I read multiple posts to this effect and assumed - I apologize.  I am guilty of repeating what I found and thoroughly apologize. I edited my original post because you are correct that I do not have any substantiation.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 09:00:42 pm by dadler »
 

Offline dadler

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2015, 09:03:44 pm »
Here is the reference, for those wondering where I got it:

http://thesignalpath.com/blogs/2012/07/02/rigol-dm3068-6-5-digit-digital-multimeter-review/

Quote
Jeremy
July 4, 2012 at 4:23 PM
This review is great. I have a DS1052E 50 MHz DSO, which I like a lot. It seems like Rigol produces some great products, many of which are inexpensively priced.

I know you are sponsored by Rigol, but it would be great to see the downsides of the DM3068 as well as a comparison to the DM3058.

I appreciate the effort you put into creating your videos. They are high quality and well thought out. I would love to see them more frequently, but I understand the amount of effort it takes is very high.

Keep up the good work!

-Jeremy


Emphasis mine. It's on his site, so though it is a comment it has been there uncontested for 2.5 years. It was mentioned so nonchalantly that I believed it to be common knowledge.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 09:06:57 pm by dadler »
 

Offline Hugoneus

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2015, 09:10:39 pm »
Here is the reference, for those wondering where I got it:

http://thesignalpath.com/blogs/2012/07/02/rigol-dm3068-6-5-digit-digital-multimeter-review/

Emphasis mine. It's on his site, so though it is a comment it has been there uncontested for 2.5 years. It was mentioned so nonchalantly that I believed it to be common knowledge.

I had not noticed that comment on my video. I am not sure why this assumption has been made and it is incorrect. I have provided a reply on my site as well to void future confusion.

Offline dadler

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2015, 09:16:13 pm »
Here is the reference, for those wondering where I got it:

http://thesignalpath.com/blogs/2012/07/02/rigol-dm3068-6-5-digit-digital-multimeter-review/

Emphasis mine. It's on his site, so though it is a comment it has been there uncontested for 2.5 years. It was mentioned so nonchalantly that I believed it to be common knowledge.

I had not noticed that comment on my video. I am not sure why this assumption has been made and it is incorrect. I have provided a reply on my site as well to void future confusion.

Thanks. I formally apologize to you, I did not intend to besmirch your reputation. I will admit that reading that comment after watching your video made me question your objectivity, and I am glad you have replied and corrected the original commenter. This does not justify my loose-application of what I thought were 'facts', though-I deserve the blame for that.
 

Offline Shim

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2015, 06:18:21 pm »
My 34461A came yesterday. At first glance, there are some significant differences between the two. I am actually slightly leaning toward the Rigol.

Is there any comparisons that anyone would like to see while I have both? Got a bit less than 30 days before one has to go back.
 

Offline DJ

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2015, 07:11:06 pm »
One only has to see the fan on the side of the Rigol :)

Forced airflow in a precision measurement device = terrible idea. Lots of issues with EMF, thermal cycles, noise (acoustic and electromagnetic).

The Agilent/Keysight 34461A has a fan in it, with it blowing air directly across the current resistors and towards the voltage reference.


Don't sit a 34461A next to a running HP 8568A... the reading will change by several ppm.

I agree that the trend chart is brilliant, but flawed - they need to allow and display one more significant digit for the Y-axis center/range.  Too often I get three identical labels on the Y-axis and have to go to the range settings to find out what the span actually is.

Is the Agilent unusually susceptible, the 8568A noisy* or a test setup acting like an antenna?


*near-field emissions can be a challenge to shield
 

Offline DJ

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2015, 07:15:51 pm »
You can get the 34461A with the usual EEVBlog discount at TEquipment.net. That's the best price I have been able to get anywhere in the past 6 months.

Tax in my state negates the TEquipment discount.

Considering the potential for damage with the Siglent continuity check (8V! What were they thinking?) will eventually bite the bullet and get the Agilent. Maybe will wait for the next Rev. Not a need but more of a want.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2015, 07:24:19 pm »
My 34461A came yesterday. At first glance, there are some significant differences between the two. I am actually slightly leaning toward the Rigol.

Is there any comparisons that anyone would like to see while I have both? Got a bit less than 30 days before one has to go back.
For me the major concerns are long term stability, firmware bugs and the PC software. I did not look at the software from Keysight but what I'd like to have is a log spanning 2 or 3 days which I can import into Excel.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline orin

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2015, 09:16:17 pm »
One only has to see the fan on the side of the Rigol :)

Forced airflow in a precision measurement device = terrible idea. Lots of issues with EMF, thermal cycles, noise (acoustic and electromagnetic).

The Agilent/Keysight 34461A has a fan in it, with it blowing air directly across the current resistors and towards the voltage reference.


Don't sit a 34461A next to a running HP 8568A... the reading will change by several ppm.

I agree that the trend chart is brilliant, but flawed - they need to allow and display one more significant digit for the Y-axis center/range.  Too often I get three identical labels on the Y-axis and have to go to the range settings to find out what the span actually is.

Is the Agilent unusually susceptible, the 8568A noisy* or a test setup acting like an antenna?


*near-field emissions can be a challenge to shield


Nothing that complicated.  The 8568A blows warm air out of the side vents right at the 34461A which then demonstrates its temperature coefficient of around 1ppm/K.
 

Online blackdog

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2015, 11:04:08 pm »
Hi,

Just for the fun....

1e, 10V reference in a oven, measured with a fresh calibrated 3458a (+0,45PPM)

HP 34401A, 10V range 100PLC.
Keysight 34461A 10V range 100PLC.
Keysight 34461A 5K thermistor measuring the Temp in my LAB.
The measured time is approximately 24 hours.

The Temp measurement...



10V 34461A after the use of zero key.





The 34401A and 34461A are both very good, they are less than 1PPM / Celsius :-)

Kind regarts,
Bklackdog



“Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe.”
 

Online nctnico

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2015, 11:11:09 pm »
What kind of 10V reference did you use?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online blackdog

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2015, 11:25:14 pm »
Hi nctnico,

It is a design of mine, about 3 years old and this reference is in a BimBox oven, about 42C.



Kind regarts,
Blackdog
“Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe.”
 

Offline BillyD

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2015, 11:30:50 pm »
Many thanks to Dadler for clearing up the confusion about Signal Path. Well done sir!
Billy.
 

Offline LaurentR

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2015, 11:34:10 pm »
Considering the potential for damage with the Siglent continuity check (8V! What were they thinking?) will eventually bite the bullet and get the Agilent. Maybe will wait for the next Rev. Not a need but more of a want.

You'll be disappointed with the 34461A too...
Here is a sampling of what I found around the home:

* Agilent 34461A: 9.4V
* Fluke 87V: 7.3V
* HP 34401A: 6.9V
* Velleman 10ADC ($10 cheapie): 3.0V
* Klein CL1000 clamp (Home Depot grade): 0.4V

There are a few threads about this including: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-with-low-continuity-test-voltage/
 

Offline Shim

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Re: 6.5 digit DMM: Keysight 34461A or Rigol DM3068 or... ?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2015, 12:43:18 am »
Considering the potential for damage with the Siglent continuity check (8V! What were they thinking?) will eventually bite the bullet and get the Agilent. Maybe will wait for the next Rev. Not a need but more of a want.

You'll be disappointed with the 34461A too...
Here is a sampling of what I found around the home:

* Agilent 34461A: 9.4V
* Fluke 87V: 7.3V
* HP 34401A: 6.9V
* Velleman 10ADC ($10 cheapie): 3.0V
* Klein CL1000 clamp (Home Depot grade): 0.4V

There are a few threads about this including: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-with-low-continuity-test-voltage/

Rigol DM3068 (measured with Agilent 34461A) 5.8V
 


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