EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: baastrup on December 08, 2016, 01:03:50 pm
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Hey im looking for a cheap multimeter like Mastech ms8228/8229 with the led indicators on the inputs :-)
As the Mastechs dont have the best safety rating, as i'm looking for something else in the same price range with this nice led feature :-)
Uni-t 139c would have been perfect but I doesn't seem to have this led feature.
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What's led input indicator? Never heard of them. Do they have LEDs to tell you you have plugged test probes in wrong jacks?
I don't think even my Fluke 289 has this feature (it has audible alarm, instead).
Yes there is LED's around the inputs that lights up to show where to plug your probes in, and the correct one will blink if uou connet the wrong.
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Sounds like a waste of battery...
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Here in the US Harbor Freight has this feature on their "high end" meter. I haven't opened it up to check safety, but then I don't stick it into mains sockets either.
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I have that same HF Mastech meter for my main out side disposable. I've had it a few years and like it. But it never sees any high voltage, high energy use. Just some drop testing and temperature cycling.
It was one of the very first meters I had ran tests on. Back then I was still trying to figure out just how low of a transient was needed before the meters would survive. I never reran this meter but doubt it would do very well. None of the Mastechs I have looked at were protected very well. But they have survived my grill starter testing which is more than I can say for the majority of UNI-T's I have looked at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzQ57h2vGV0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzQ57h2vGV0&feature=youtu.be)
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Hmmm.
Its Hard to decide which <$50 multilmeter its gonna be.
It will only be for home/hobby use. But i could imagine that it would be used to check a wall socket/lamp socket from time to time so i guss i would need cat III.
Would The uni-t 139c or ms8229 be ok for that?
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We have 230v and 10-16amps plugs here in Danmark for a normal huse panel.
Any suggestions for a nice multilmeter below $50?
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Having a outlet too close to the power panel can be a problem: I have seen the damage from a short that happened do to a failing light bulb - it blew 3 fuses (16 A - 35 A and 100 A) and the cabling looked brown from the outside too. Not sure one of the normal HRC fuses would have been good enough.
Normal outlets are not that bad. By definition class II would apply. But it has to be really Class II, not just the Chinese Class III.
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I would recommend an Amprobe AM-510 or a Uni-T UT139C.
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I will have a look at The amprobe.
Im also looking at this little nice one.
http://www.elma-instruments.com/_gb/Products/Lists;130070/Electric/Multimeters/p/5706445410224?shop.product.id=5706445410224 (http://www.elma-instruments.com/_gb/Products/Lists;130070/Electric/Multimeters/p/5706445410224?shop.product.id=5706445410224)
It has The EU CAT II and cat III CERT.
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That Elma is a rebranded Brymen!
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That Elma is a rebranded Brymen!
Is that a good or bad thing? And what brymen model dos it compare to?
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It is a good thing!. Look at my signature. It is a Brymen BM25.
I would not personally recommend a pocket meter such as this for your primary multimeter. You would be better off with the AM510 or UT139C we have mentioned.
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It is a good thing!. Look at my signature. It is a Brymen BM25.
I would not personally recommend a pocket meter such as this for your primary multimeter. You would be better off with the AM510 or UT139C we have mentioned.
I was reading from my tablet at couldn't see your signature sorry ;-)
Why would a pocket meter not be good enough? AM510 is around 75$ here in Denmark (even if I try to get it home from ebay)
Bm22-27 seems to fit my needs, but i'm not sure which one would fit best.
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I guss pcoket multimeters cant easily have there fuse changed right?
so the choice is between Am-probe AM-510 (63€) or Uni-t 139c (33€)
How are they compared featurewise?
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The Brymen pocket meters have no useful current measurement function. The leads are also short and inconvenient to use every day.
The UT139C is a better buy IMHO as it has TRMS.
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Keep an eyeball out for the Colluck HH0308C which is rated CAT II/750VAC & UL listed. It's rebadged into a few different forms. For example:
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/digital-multimeter-csi2205d.html (https://www.circuitspecialists.com/digital-multimeter-csi2205d.html) Wrong one, older version.
Canuck thread on the Canadian Tire version:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/canadian-tire-mastercraft-dmm-new-and-old-rev (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/canadian-tire-mastercraft-dmm-new-and-old-revision-teardown/)
The fuses are a bit doubtful, but the LEDs mean you never blow a fuse anyway, thereby removing the danger. :)
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Anything better than DT830B can survive CAT II 300V transient. It doesn't need MOVs or PTCs or HRC fuses to handle such energy. These are pretty much superfluous for such a rating.
Cat II 300V is a 2500V surge with a 12 ohm source. Some of the very early testing I did used a 49 ohm source. Back then I was measuring the time of the decay to zero rather than the FWHH like I do now. And again, even if that's not weak enough, I had less than a Joule. Three meters failed at 2KV. The HF meter was not ran until I had switched to always using a 2 ohm source but again, sub 1J and it failed. Basically it looks like most of the meters I tested early on would not have survived a CAT II 300V transient.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cXzYpIoyVm9QJUju4KXqM22CEQZP3_xwWvDyeVwxTy4/edit?usp=sharing
Anyway, OP sorry but I would have no idea what you need a meter for. I assume from you asking about the 8229 that you do not need TRMS. If you are going to be sticking things in wall sockets, I would forget that meter. Like I said, I use that meter a fair amount and it's taken some abuse. But I don't need anything all that great in the shop and I don't play with line voltage with it.
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Anything better than DT830B can survive CAT II 300V transient. It doesn't need MOVs or PTCs or HRC fuses to handle such energy. These are pretty much superfluous for such a rating.
Cat II 300V is a 2500V surge with a 12 ohm source. Some of the very early testing I did used a 49 ohm source. Back then I was measuring the time of the decay to zero rather than the FWHH like I do now. And again, even if that's not weak enough, I had less than a Joule. Three meters failed at 2KV. The HF meter was not ran until I had switched to always using a 2 ohm source but again, sub 1J and it failed. Basically it looks like most of the meters I tested early on would not have survived a CAT II 300V transient.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cXzYpIoyVm9QJUju4KXqM22CEQZP3_xwWvDyeVwxTy4/edit?usp=sharing
Anyway, OP sorry but I would have no idea what you need a meter for. I assume from you asking about the 8229 that you do not need TRMS. If you are going to be sticking things in wall sockets, I would forget that meter. Like I said, I use that meter a fair amount and it's taken some abuse. But I don't need anything all that great in the shop and I don't play with line voltage with it.
I would need it for playing around with:
small bords like andorino/omega
Test of wall sockets are ok
AA/AAA battery tests
Märklin model train debugging/troubleshooting
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You also might consider BM233 from Brymen. It has similar capabilities (no temp measurement, PC connection and bargraph) like the BM257 (EEVBlog multimeter) for about 2/3 of the price. It has proper CAT rating, true RMS converter, microAmp range, HRC fuses, beeps when you connect the probes in the Amp jack but it is set for voltage, etc.
Datasheet: http://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102137/102137.KARTA_EN..2016-05-10.1.pdf (http://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102137/102137.KARTA_EN..2016-05-10.1.pdf)
TME has some stock for 62€ (+VAT) Link: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm233/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/ (http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm233/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/)
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Hmm so i can get Brymen BM233 and Amprobe am-510-eur
For allmost same price. But which one is best?
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You also might consider BM233 from Brymen. It has similar capabilities (no temp measurement, PC connection and bargraph) like the BM257 (EEVBlog multimeter)
Just a little note. The EEVBlog meter is the BM235..
@baastrup - I can highly recommend the Brymen meters, and I would choose them over the Amprobe.
Until now I've got a BM27, BM235 (EEVBlog), BM257, BM869 and a BM089 - They are relative high quality meters for the price, if you ask me.
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Strictly abiding to CAT II standard, they may not pass, but hey, how many devices you plug into wall socket? TV, computer, whatever. Most of them only have a piss poor glass fuse, some have a MOV, some don't even have a MOV. Almost none have combination of PTC+ceramic fuse+GDT+MOV. So, how many time do you see anything blow up just because of transients? I've seen none in my entire life.
I consider CAT II an overrated standard that in real life, you are not going to see such magnitude of transients. Keep in mind that I now live in a suburban area where distribution lines are overhead, all exposed to lightning, and we have power loss every heavy rain or snow or slurry, or rarely for no reason. Even that, I've never had anything blew up just from mains fault.
You may argue that though rare, if it fail, it can kill. But that's not the case. Let's say every 10 years a transient kills some electrical appliances, and you plan to measure one minute per day on mains, and you want to keep electronics a hobby for 50 years, then you have 0.3% chance of having a multimeter blow up in your hand in the entire 50 years, and even if that happens, a low voltage, low energy arc over usually only give you a slight burn in face, and some smokey beard. I had this happened to me a couple of times, caused by gun powder accidentally ignited in front of my face, it really doesn't hurt much, though a smokey black and hair-less face may look funny and attract some laugh.
Your original comment was about the meters surviving CAT II 300V, which I provided what data I had. I can't comment about the frequency of failures on household devices from line transients throughout the world. I also can't comment if any of the IEC standards are over rated compared with real world. We can see from the meters I have looked at that are marked to meet these standards, while they may actually meet them many will not survive.
I would never suggest the standards are under rated and that there is little to no risk using a device that is not certified to for the environment you are working in. It just doesn't serve the hobbyist community and the professionals would laugh at me.
Just a little note. The EEVBlog meter is the BM235..
@baastrup - I can highly recommend the Brymen meters, and I would choose them over the Amprobe.
Until now I've got a BM27, BM235 (EEVBlog), BM257, BM869 and a BM089 - They are relative high quality meters for the price, if you ask me.
At least for the EEVBlog BM235 and BM869s, I agree. And while it may not matter to our above poster, these meters have been certified independently.
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What fluke model does bm233 and am510 compare to?
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What fluke model does bm233 and am510 compare to?
15b+
Oh but they are not sold by fluke anymore? Can only find them on Ebay from China... but in same price level as am 510 and bm233
Fluke from China are they safe to buy?
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Which one would you guys recommend if it should have temp. Feature as well?
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15b+ is China exclusive, and doesn't have global warranty. It's made by Fluke China, fully owned Fluke subsidiary.
so are they a better buy?
they seem quite cheap on ebay
the Fluke 17b seems to have temp as well.
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You also might consider BM233 from Brymen. It has similar capabilities (no temp measurement, PC connection and bargraph) like the BM257 (EEVBlog multimeter)
Just a little note. The EEVBlog meter is the BM235..
@baastrup - I can highly recommend the Brymen meters, and I would choose them over the Amprobe.
Until now I've got a BM27, BM235 (EEVBlog), BM257, BM869 and a BM089 - They are relative high quality meters for the price, if you ask me.
Why is they better than Amprobe?
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Why they are better than the Amprobe is matter of opinion. The Amprobe AM-5X0 series offer some really good features for the price. They also have decent protection. As far as I know, the Amprobes all have proper third party certification for their CAT ratings.
Some people might say that the Brymens are better built. Brymen is actually the ODM for the AM-270, AM-140, and AM-160 as examples.
There are no Brymens in the same price point as some of the Amprobe AM-510 for example.
I would buy either based on your needs and price.
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Regarding Brymen.
Im still en doubt if should go for the bm233 or bm235 or even the bm257s
Is there any hardware differences between bm 235 and eevblogs bm235?
at http://www.tme.eu/gb/details/bm233/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/ (http://www.tme.eu/gb/details/bm233/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/) they say that it comes with the "K-type temperature probe
"
but what I understod 233 does not Measure temperature?
and what is bm233-web?
http://www.tme.eu/gb/details/bm235-wb/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/# (http://www.tme.eu/gb/details/bm235-wb/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/#)
so what would i gain if I upgraded from 233 to 235 or even 257s?
Are there other rebranded models of the 233,235, and 257s?
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I just picked up a BM233 :-DMM
I also got it from TME (Hungary). No K-type probe as the meter cannot measure temp. Just the meter, stock leads and a manual. Quality seems really good at first glance. Its a good pick if you don't need temperature measurement capability or the LoZ mode. Didn't open it up so I cannot confirm the chip is the same as the 235 or not, but I wouldn't be surpirsed if it is the same. The placement of the measurement types around the selector wheel is the same as with the 235, except the LoZ of course - its no proof, but a good indicator, that they use the same or at least similar chips. Didn't do any testing yet, but I have a really good feeling about this meter - mind you that it is my first Brymen, at the university where I study, I've only seen noname el-ceapo ones, some UNI-Ts and a handful of really old Flukes, so this is like a whole new universe for me.
I'd only pick the BM257s if you really need the IR communication option. Otherwise I'd go for the BM233/235 depending on your needs, just because they're newer and also cheaper - and I also love the screen flashing continuity tester ;D
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Thanks all.
Ended up with a Bm257s as the price tag between bm235 and bm257s with shipping was very little.
Seems like very good meter.
Now it's time to learn about electric current and how to use multimeter😋
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The BM257 also have the bargraph, which i find very handy. I must admit, that i like the white backlight from the BM235.
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The BM257 also have the bargraph, which i find very handy. I must admit, that i like the white backlight from the BM235.
Yes i like the white backlight better as well, so that is the only cons :-)
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Yes i like the white backlight better as well, so that is the only cons :-)
plus the flashing continuity
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I have that same HF Mastech meter for my main out side disposable.
I'm delighted to see such careful categorisation. I tend to just categorise my meters into 'bench', 'handheld' and sometimes 'vintage', but do you have candidates for all permutations of inside/outside, main/backup, disposable/quality ? Any other categories ?
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I have that same HF Mastech meter for my main out side disposable.
I'm delighted to see such careful categorisation. I tend to just categorise my meters into 'bench', 'handheld' and sometimes 'vintage', but do you have candidates for all permutations of inside/outside, main/backup, disposable/quality ? Any other categories ?
:-DD Maybe
Recycled
This by far categorizes the majority of the meters I have looked at.
Modified
Meters that I have made some sort of modification to for demonstration purposes.
Repaired
Meters that were damaged during my evaluation that I was able to repair and they still meet there original performance.
Damaged
Meters that ere damaged and I was unable to fully repair but are still somewhat functional.
Dead
Meters that are non functional but still in use. 5KY provided me with a UT61E which is the only meter I have that fits this category. Although, it's nearing the recycle stage.
Robust
Meters that I have yet to damage. Because I normally run all of the meters to failure, there are VERY FEW meters that fit in this category.
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Where's Rob McKenna when you need him?