Author Topic: A few specific questions for SDS2000X HD owners (or possibly any SDS owners)  (Read 2020 times)

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Offline SpikeTopic starter

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Hey all,


I currently have two scopes, an old Tek 2465A CT and a LeCroy LC574AL.  I absolutely love both of them.  The Tek because, you know, old school analog goodness, and the LeCroy because I'm constantly amazed at how capable it is despite pushing toward being 30 years old.

The Tek covers my basic needs when I just need to look at a waveform and the LeCroy comes out when I need an FFT or more bandwidth (seldom).  The thing is that I find myself avoiding the LeCroy more and more because it is just so loud that I need hearing protection to use it.  Well that and all the lights in the neighborhood dim when I turn it on.

So despite my love for these scopes I'm in the process of shopping for a modern scope that I can use for most tasks while keeping the other two for special needs.  It is insanely daunting with all the current choices but at the moment the Siglent SDS2204X HD is the leading contender (I'd love that to be the 2354 but it kind of takes me outside my budget).  Some specific questions I have thus far and not been able to find answers to are:

  • For the logic analyzer functionality, is there any way to have custom decoders?  The only analyzer I currently have is a USB based one, the DSLogic U3Pro which uses a version of sigrok for which I was able to write a custom decoder for a flavor of MFM.  It's not a deal breaker but I wonder if this sort of thing is possible.
  • Can the Bode plot functionality be used with Siglent function generators other than the SDG X series?  I have an older SDG5000 unit and wonder whether it can be used (siglent seems to imply no).  I know I can use the built-in generator in the scope but my SDG has a greater frequency range.

For folks more familiar with Siglent itself and their business practices:
  • There is a current promotion for a bundle that includes logic probe and some licenses for function gen and decoders and whatnot.  The problem I'm having is that this scope does not seem to be in stock anywhere and the lead times extend past the end of this promotion.  Would I be screwing myself if I did not make a purchase before then or does siglent run these promotions all the time?
  • Finally, what's the likelihood that I'd be able to find discounted bandwidth upgrade?  350Mhz seems like the sweet spot for me but as mentioned it takes me over my budget a bit.  I've seen various accounts of folks getting bandwidth upgrades everwhere from free to full price.  Do they ever (often) run promotions on these?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2024, 04:02:32 am by Spike »
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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I wouldn't worry too much about the bandwidth, that kind if thing can be "improved" later if you're crafty. The BW sale might happen eventually if you're not into other methods of improvement.

That's a great choice of scope, and if you want it, I would certainly place the order before the promotion ends. Worst case scenario, you can cancel your order or return it within the return period if you're not happy.

I don't know the answer regarding your older SDG model, but it might be possible via USB. The X models I believe generally also have ethernet. @tautech might know.

Thanks,
Josh
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Offline tautech

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    It is insanely daunting with all the current choices but at the moment the Siglent SDS2204X HD is the leading contender (I'd love that to be the 2354 but it kind of takes me outside my budget).  Some specific questions I have thus far and not been able to find answers to are:

    Can the Bode plot functionality be used with Siglent function generators other than the SDG X series?  I have an older SDG5000 unit and wonder whether it can be used (siglent seems to imply no).  I know I can use the built-in generator in the scope but my SDG has a greater frequency range.

    From the SDS2000X HD datasheet P12
    Bode Plot
    Supported signal sources:
    Built-in waveform generator
    SAG1021I (Connection: USB),
    SDG series waveform generators (Connection: USB, LAN)

    Max frequency for FRA/Bode plot is 120 MHz and your SDG5000 is capable of 160 MHz max.
    Quote
    For folks more familiar with Siglent itself and their business practices:

    There is a current promotion for a bundle that includes logic probe and some licenses for function gen and decoders and whatnot.  The problem I'm having is that this scope does not seem to be in stock anywhere and the lead times extend past the end of this promotion.  Would I be screwing myself if I did not make a purchase before then or does siglent run these promotions all the time?
    They come and go.
    Current promo which is a steal IMHO:
    SDS2XHD-BND must be purchased with a new scope.
    https://siglentna.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/

    Quote
    • Finally, what's the likelihood that I'd be able to find discounted bandwidth upgrade?  350Mhz seems like the sweet spot for me but as mentioned it takes me over my budget a bit.  I've seen various accounts of folks getting bandwidth upgrades everwhere from free to full price.  Do they ever (often) run promotions on these?
    Rare but occasionally offered with a new purchase.
    Nothing offered at present.
    Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
    Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
     

    Offline SpikeTopic starter

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    It is insanely daunting with all the current choices but at the moment the Siglent SDS2204X HD is the leading contender (I'd love that to be the 2354 but it kind of takes me outside my budget).  Some specific questions I have thus far and not been able to find answers to are:

    Can the Bode plot functionality be used with Siglent function generators other than the SDG X series?  I have an older SDG5000 unit and wonder whether it can be used (siglent seems to imply no).  I know I can use the built-in generator in the scope but my SDG has a greater frequency range.

    From the SDS2000X HD datasheet P12
    Bode Plot
    Supported signal sources:
    Built-in waveform generator
    SAG1021I (Connection: USB),
    SDG series waveform generators (Connection: USB, LAN)

    Max frequency for FRA/Bode plot is 120 MHz and your SDG5000 is capable of 160 MHz max.

    Ah!  Thanks for that.  Was looking on the product pages for other SDS scopes (notably the SDS1104X-E on the North America site) and saw:

    Bode Plot function (requires SIGLENT SDG X or SAG1021 function generator)

    Your answer is most welcome news.
    Any idea about the custom decoders?
    « Last Edit: May 24, 2024, 05:08:28 pm by Spike »
     

    Offline rfindley

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    I was in a similar boat as you.  I have a LeCroy 564A 4ch 1GHz scope, bought almost 20yrs ago from the liquidation of a failed startup company.  It's fully loaded, in nearly perfect condition, but it's super heavy and super loud.  Barely fits on my bench beside what I'm measuring, and I can't take it on the road.  And the number of times I've smashed my fingers trying to get that thing on and off the shelf...  >:(

    I just got a Siglent SDS3034X HD (350MHz) as a line-item on a project, and I'll be using it for travel.  If I could have afforded the 1GHz license, I would sell the LeCroy in a heartbeat.

    Anyway, I don't think the Siglent scopes have any built-in support for custom decoders, which would likely be competition for their own decoder options.  But you mentioned Sigrok...   The sigrok documentation lists support for the SDS2000X series.  I'm sure you are more familiar with Sigrok than I am, so maybe that tells you something about likely support for the SDS2000X HD.

    When I get some free time, I plan to learn a bit more about Sigrok and see if it can support the SDS3000X HD.
     

    Offline SpikeTopic starter

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    I was in a similar boat as you.  I have a LeCroy 564A 4ch 1GHz scope, bought almost 20yrs ago from the liquidation of a failed startup company.  It's fully loaded, in nearly perfect condition, but it's super heavy and super loud.  Barely fits on my bench beside what I'm measuring, and I can't take it on the road.  And the number of times I've smashed my fingers trying to get that thing on and off the shelf...  >:(

    I just got a Siglent SDS3034X HD (350MHz) as a line-item on a project, and I'll be using it for travel.  If I could have afforded the 1GHz license, I would sell the LeCroy in a heartbeat.

    Anyway, I don't think the Siglent scopes have any built-in support for custom decoders, which would likely be competition for their own decoder options.  But you mentioned Sigrok...   The sigrok documentation lists support for the SDS2000X series.  I'm sure you are more familiar with Sigrok than I am, so maybe that tells you something about likely support for the SDS2000X HD.

    When I get some free time, I plan to learn a bit more about Sigrok and see if it can support the SDS3000X HD.

    Thanks for pointing out the device support, I was not aware of it.  It's not polite to suggest that an open source project is dead but if sigrok isn't dead it isn't moving much.  There hasn't been a release in like 3 years or so and the nightly builds don't work.  At least not on macOS.

    The thing I mentioned above was a fork of sigrok that only works for the vendor's hardware and I think everything else is stripped out.  I suppose I could look into getting sigrok working on macOS again but I think writing a protocol decoder is enough yak shaving for me for now.  It seems like a decent fallback option for the SDS2KHD in the future, though.
     

    Online kripton2035

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    I'm not aware also of custom decoders.
    I tried to connect sigrok to the sds2000hd from my laptop using ethernet, but it did not work (it seems to work with a sds2000x PLUS but I can't test)
    this is only a connexion problem, and may be it's working using usb I did not test either
    but you could in theory use sigrok and all of its decoders with the sds2000
     

    Offline ebastler

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    I wouldn't worry too much about the bandwidth, that kind if thing can be "improved" later if you're crafty. The BW sale might happen eventually if you're not into other methods of improvement.

    I would not bank on a discounted bandwidth upgrade being offered later, separate from the scope purchase. I don't think I have ever (and from any manufacturer) seen a deal on aftermarket options. Why would manufacturers offer that? Special deals and bundle offers are meant to entice potential customers to buy a new scope. Once a customer has done so, he is locked in to that model anyway, and if he wants a bandwidth upgrade, why not charge him full price?

    The free "improvements" are tricky on this scope, since the method has not been published. Unless you are an expert hacker and codebreaker, it's not so much a matter of being "crafty", but of convincing certain people who are in the know that you are worthy...
     

    Offline KungFuJosh

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    I would not bank on a discounted bandwidth upgrade being offered later, separate from the scope purchase. I don't think I have ever (and from any manufacturer) seen a deal on aftermarket options. Why would manufacturers offer that? Special deals and bundle offers are meant to entice potential customers to buy a new scope. Once a customer has done so, he is locked in to that model anyway, and if he wants a bandwidth upgrade, why not charge him full price?
    They're not common, but I've seen them in the past.

    The free "improvements" are tricky on this scope, since the method has not been published. Unless you are an expert hacker and codebreaker, it's not so much a matter of being "crafty", but of convincing certain people who are in the know that you are worthy...
    Translation: ask politely. 😉
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    Online AndyC_772

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    There is a current promotion for a bundle that includes logic probe and some licenses for function gen and decoders and whatnot.  The problem I'm having is that this scope does not seem to be in stock anywhere and the lead times extend past the end of this promotion.  Would I be screwing myself if I did not make a purchase before then or does siglent run these promotions all the time?

    I'd check with your local distributor on this one.

    I was quoted ~3 weeks lead time on a 2354, and I'd fully expect to get the bundle offer price if I were to place the order before the deal supposedly ends next month.

    I'm curious to know what might happen after that date, though. Comparing like-for-like in terms of bandwidth, the 3034XHD is £2939, vs £2504 for the 2354XHD, which means the bundle offer is really the only thing that makes the 2354 compelling. Without the bundled options with the cheaper scope, I think it would be a no-brainer to pay the little bit extra to get the 3000 series hardware.
     
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    Online kripton2035

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    I would expect you to receive the promotion bundle soon after the order (they are mainly licences papers) and receive the scope 3 weeks later.
     
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    Online AndyC_772

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    Wouldn't the licences need to be unique to the serial number of the scope, ie. not known until after the scope itself has been delivered?
     
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    Offline gburdzin

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    Wouldn't the licences need to be unique to the serial number of the scope, ie. not known until after the scope itself has been delivered?

    If I remember correctly, the package you get contains printouts of "pseudo" license codes.  You then need to go to a Siglent website and enter your scope serial number and the "pseudo" license code, and the website gives you the generated final license code that gets entered on the scope.
     
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    Online kripton2035

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    Wouldn't the licences need to be unique to the serial number of the scope, ie. not known until after the scope itself has been delivered?

    If I remember correctly, the package you get contains printouts of "pseudo" license codes.  You then need to go to a Siglent website and enter your scope serial number and the "pseudo" license code, and the website gives you the generated final license code that gets entered on the scope.
    absolutely.
     
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    Offline SpikeTopic starter

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    Thanks for the input, guys.  I think I've reached a decision and I'm going to pull the trigger on an SDS2354X HD with promo bundle before the promo period ends.

    As an aside, I actually came to this decision shortly after starting this topic but I was going to use a bank or wire transfer to pay for the purchase from either TEquipment or Saelig.  Both of them state that they accept this form of payment but both require you to reach out to a sales rep to do so.  I reached out to both via email using multiple addresses from different links on their sites.  To date I have received zero responses.  Yes, I know I could call them but I'd rather have a communication trail so I chose email.  So what could have been a 3-click, 30 second transaction turned into a week of moving money around so that I can actually spend it.  PSA: don't bother doing trying to contact these vendors' sales reps via email if you can avoid it.

    Unless folks know some reason why I should prefer one of Saelig or TEquiopment over the other, the current plan is to do a normal online transaction using the EEVBlog discount code at Saelig (they don't require talking to anyone to get the promo bundle), which brings the 2354 and bundle to within a few tens of dollars of my original budget.  With the promo bundle it seemed like a no-brainer to stretch that little bit extra.

    Before I pull the trigger, though, does anyone familiar with Siglent have insight into the lead time on these units?  I only ask because I have a short travel period within the window that I'm currently aware of for this.  If anyone has any more accurate information it would be appreciated, so I can possibly avoid any self-induced delivery headache.  With my luck it's a virtual guarantee that it will be delivered while I'm away.  Maybe one way to move up the delivery would be to move up my trip.  :-)

    Also, I managed to build a working sigrok/pulseview binary for macos, so I'll have a go at getting that working with the HD when it arrives.

    Thanks again
     
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    Online kripton2035

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    Quote
    Also, I managed to build a working sigrok/pulseview binary for macos, so I'll have a go at getting that working with the HD when it arrives.
    if you succeed in connecting sigrok to a SDS2xxx HD then I would really like to know how you did it !
     
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    Offline tautech

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    Thanks for the input, guys.  I think I've reached a decision and I'm going to pull the trigger on an SDS2354X HD with promo bundle before the promo period ends.

    Unless folks know some reason why I should prefer one of Saelig or TEquiopment over the other, the current plan is to do a normal online transaction using the EEVBlog discount code at Saelig (they don't require talking to anyone to get the promo bundle), which brings the 2354 and bundle to within a few tens of dollars of my original budget.  With the promo bundle it seemed like a no-brainer to stretch that little bit extra.
    Nods, top choice.

    Quote
    Before I pull the trigger, though, does anyone familiar with Siglent have insight into the lead time on these units?  I only ask because I have a short travel period within the window that I'm currently aware of for this.  If anyone has any more accurate information it would be appreciated, so I can possibly avoid any self-induced delivery headache.  With my luck it's a virtual guarantee that it will be delivered while I'm away.  Maybe one way to move up the delivery would be to move up my trip.  :-)
    TBH, you should just call them to confirm availability and hold a unit for you.
    https://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-hd/sds2354x-hd.htm
    Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
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    Offline SpikeTopic starter

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    Quote
    Also, I managed to build a working sigrok/pulseview binary for macos, so I'll have a go at getting that working with the HD when it arrives.
    if you succeed in connecting sigrok to a SDS2xxx HD then I would really like to know how you did it !
    I'll be sure to report back.  One thing I'll say up front, though, is that the copy I have built as of now is lacking LXI/VXI support and I think that may be true for both released and nightly builds from the project.  You should be able to tell by looking in the about dialog and seeing if your copy links liblxi.  I'm not certain (about a great many things sigrok related) but if you were trying to connect via lan that could explain your connection issues.  I plan to try to get a build going with that support but one step at a time.
     
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    Offline SpikeTopic starter

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    Quote
    Also, I managed to build a working sigrok/pulseview binary for macos, so I'll have a go at getting that working with the HD when it arrives.
    if you succeed in connecting sigrok to a SDS2xxx HD then I would really like to know how you did it !
    I'll be sure to report back.  One thing I'll say up front, though, is that the copy I have built as of now is lacking LXI/VXI support and I think that may be true for both released and nightly builds from the project.  You should be able to tell by looking in the about dialog and seeing if your copy links liblxi.  I'm not certain (about a great many things sigrok related) but if you were trying to connect via lan that could explain your connection issues.  I plan to try to get a build going with that support but one step at a time.

    Actually, I think I'm full of crap.  Once I get my head around the communications in sigrok and get this working with the HD I'll report back here.
     
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    Online kripton2035

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    you're right I don't have the liblxi announced in the about dialog ...
     

    Offline SpikeTopic starter

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    you're right I don't have the liblxi announced in the about dialog ...

    I’m struggling to find the reference that made me believe that it should link that in the first place.  I’ll go wading through this while I’m waiting for the scope to arrive and perhaps by the time it does I’ll have a better idea of whether it should work with the HD or not.  If not, hopefully not too much effort to make it work.
     

    Online kripton2035

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    the problem was that when I tried to connect to the scope IP address, it did not respond, and the scope would hang up. I had to force restart it.
     

    Offline SpikeTopic starter

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    the problem was that when I tried to connect to the scope IP address, it did not respond, and the scope would hang up. I had to force restart it.
    After browsing the source a bit I would not expect this to work with the HD or even the Plus without changes.  Ignoring any potential connection issues, I don’t think that the driver will recognize it as a supported model.  There’s a supported model struct with fields enumerating certain properties such as minimum timebase, number of analog channels, whether it supports digital channels and how many, etc.

    There’s no such entry for the HD (or the Plus) and even if it identified itself as an SDS2000X, that entry seems wrong for the HD.  Hell, it even seems wrong for the model it is ostensibly for. It specifies no digital channel support for it at all.

    That’s just from a quick look, it’s  possible I’m missing something.  In any case it’s possible that adding support is a simple matter of populating a struct for it and adding it to an array.  Of course it’s also possible that chicken bones and a voodoo doll would be required.  I doubt it but …
     

    Online kripton2035

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    the siglent sds2000x is supported by sigrok ...
    https://www.sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDS2000X_series
     

    Online 2N3055

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    the siglent sds2000x is supported by sigrok ...
    https://www.sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDS2000X_series

    Yes but not 2000xPlus or 2000xHD.
     


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