A look at high end multimeters

[HKJ]

And I also thank you for not getting angry that I am bringing up the topic of MetraHit Energy review again and again even though you have said no.

I have said no to review my current meter, this is because it is rather old, as can be seen on the photos (Calibration date 10-10). It do not mean I will not review a Gossen Energy meter, only that I will not review my current meter. If I get around to publish DMM reviews again I may buy a new Energy meter (It is expensive, but not prohibitive) and review it (Note: I have paid for all my reviewed and other DMMs, I have never got a free DMM).

There is no need to dismantle the meter because we already have the inside video of it from Dave. Just review it from operational point of view. You usually highlight some points of the equipment that shows the practical limitations of it that are skipped by the manufacturer. For example, I was surprised to read that nS function is kind of fake on this meter.

I will need to dismantle it, that is a part or my review.
When I do reviews I try to look at both good and bad sides of a device. I like the Gossen Energy meter, but I also know the bad sides of if very well. My list of most advanced multimeters are:

Gossen Energy
Fluke 289
UNI-T UT181A
Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293

They each has good and bad points (The CA win in user interface and Energy is at the bottom, but Energy is the only meter that do Power. I could add a couple more good/bad points for different meters).

If somebody now other meters that can match these meters in functionality please post it (Not rebrands or reduced models).

[mqsaharan]

And I also thank you for not getting angry that I am bringing up the topic of MetraHit Energy review again and again even though you have said no.

I have said no to review my current meter, this is because it is rather old, as can be seen on the photos (Calibration date 10-10). It do not mean I will not review a Gossen Energy meter, only that I will not review my current meter. If I get around to publish DMM reviews again I may buy a new Energy meter (It is expensive, but not prohibitive) and review it (Note: I have paid for all my reviewed and other DMMs, I have never got a free DMM).

There is no need to dismantle the meter because we already have the inside video of it from Dave. Just review it from operational point of view. You usually highlight some points of the equipment that shows the practical limitations of it that are skipped by the manufacturer. For example, I was surprised to read that nS function is kind of fake on this meter.

I will need to dismantle it, that is a part or my review.
When I do reviews I try to look at both good and bad sides of a device. I like the Gossen Energy meter, but I also know the bad sides of if very well. My list of most advanced multimeters are:

Gossen Energy
Fluke 289
UNI-T UT181A
Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293

They each has good and bad points (The CA win in user interface and Energy is at the bottom, but Energy is the only meter that do Power. I could add a couple more good/bad points for different meters).

If somebody now other meters that can match these meters in functionality please post it (Not rebrands or reduced models).

Thank you for the explanation. Wow, I did not know that you purchased all these meters out of your own pocket. Kudos to you for providing such details about all these meters. I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe. Kudos to Joe as well. He also paid out of his own pocket for these meters and provided us with such details that are out of reach of most people.

Its interesting that your MetraHit Energy has more than 10 years old calibration. I just realized from your reply that this one and a few other meters that you use could have very old calibration. A comparison of these high end multimeters that are in your use with about a decade old calibration is a must. When you get a chance, please do that comparison.

Hats off to all you people who are sharing their knowledge and helping others via such forums.

[HKJ]

I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe.

I do not like destroying stuff, I more tend to put it on a shelf or give it away.

Its interesting that your MetraHit Energy has more than 10 years old calibration. I just realized from your reply that this one and a few other meters that you use could have very old calibration. A comparison of these high end multimeters that are in your use with about a decade old calibration is a must. When you get a chance, please do that comparison.

A fast comparison at 1V (Done fast, i.e. not time for temperatures to stabilize):
Keysight 34470A     0.9999349   
Fluke 8846A            0.999923
Fluke 189                0.9995
CA5293                   0.99975
Gossen Energy        1.0024
Gossen PM Prime     1.0016

A fast comparison at 10V (Done fast, i.e. not time for temperatures to stabilize):
Keysight 34470A     10.000279
Fluke 8846A             10.00019
Fluke 189                 9.9996
CA5293                    9.9995
Gossen Energy         10.021
Gossen PM Prime     10.016

The Gossen Energy, Fluke 189 & Fluke 8846A are old meters, i.e. 10+ years.
The CA5293 & Gossen PM Prime are new meters, i.e. less than a year old.

I used a PDVS2 for this test.

[HKJ]

Thank you for the explanation. Wow, I did not know that you purchased all these meters out of your own pocket.

That statement was a bit to all encompassing, I have got some (Not many) of the cheap(er) meters for free, when that is the case it is listed in the review.
With some of my other review stuff I get a lot for free, especially LiIon batteries.

[joeqsmith]

I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe. Kudos to Joe as well. He also paid out of his own pocket for these meters and provided us with such details that are out of reach of most people.

In my case, I wanted to know how robust (not safe) these meters were.  Contrary to many reviewers, I lack the expertise to look at a meter and make that determination. The only way to sort it out was to run them to failure against some common standard.    Early on comparing cheap $50 meters, indeed I sent a very high percentage of them to the recycle bins.  Towards the end of my testing, I was looking at a better class of meters.  Most of these were repairable or never damaged. 

The testing has expanded to look at the functional switches wear and how common chemicals effect the materials.  It's all potentially destructive and not something we find in the manuals. 

[Cymaphore]

Contrary to many reviewers, I lack the expertise to look at a meter and make that determination. The only way to sort it out was to run them to failure against some common standard.

I would say it's more than that. You're taking the approach of a proper test engineer.

One can easily examine and evaluate individual parts and an assembly. But to make a solid statement about a complex device or machine with many interacting factors including durability, there is still no way around proper testing. Find an appropriate test method and -standard, make it repeatable, documented, record everything and then examine and understand the results. That's how it's done after the creatores are sure it's perfect.

That's why the durability test stands I have at work exist. These big drive batteries and their surrounding modules are not badly designed at all. Everything is nice and well and looks decent. But looking at specs, schematics, numbers and the thing itself is not enough. That's why the durability test is now rarely standing still. 40.000 to 120.000 km equivalent (compressed) of test stand hours with shaking/vibration, electrical charge/discharge profile and temperature profile tell you things that no simulation or expertise can ever provide and no test track hours can ever do.

You reminded me once before, that my judgement about a multimeters input protection and such was too quick and too much based on theoretical information, and you were correct. I would have never done that kind of judgement at work with a 80kW battery under test.

[joeqsmith]

Outside of the EMC standard,  I'm not aware of any industry standards for comparing robustness, only safety.  I am not sure what proper testing would even be.  Comparing the meters in such a way isn't something I had seen done before.  The problem with using the safety standard as a starting point for evaluating the DMM's front end is you get a lot of confusion.   One thing is certain is there are companies for what ever reason design and manufacture products that are very robust compared with others.   

I think one of the most memorable meters I looked at was the Gossen M248B.  At about $1000 USD (shipping + tax),  I was surprised by some of the design choices that were made.   When the magnetic hanger caused the latching relays to change states and in turn, caused the meter to not display the voltage properly, that's a very bad choice.   When you don't add shielding to the meter and any attempts to get near it causes the readings to fluctuate, that's again a bad choice.   It was bad enough that I placed the meter in an anechoic chamber, along with a few others and ran a sweep on it.   That meter had other problems as well but I think the best part was Gossen rebranded the M248B Ultra to Prime for some strange reason.   Did they ever actually improve the design?

It's the stuff you don't find in the manuals that I found interesting.

[Cymaphore]

It's the stuff you don't find in the manuals that I found interesting.

You applied something that I would describe as a professional test engineers mindset (regardless of your background, that I don't know about) to the task. And in doing so, you professionally and without mercy uncovered some serious issues. Something the manufacturer should have found and corrected before release. Together with the completely unacceptable reaction by the them, that demonstrated the whole disgrace this is for german engineering. They cannot just live of a big name, manufacture in india and hope people will go on paying big time for their products while their management is making party on huge profits.

It's not exclusive to german manufactures. It's happening with too many big names in industrial countries. The arrogance of management types with expensive suits not caring about responsibility for products and consumers.

Maybe I'm a bit "burned" by personal experiences in recent years, but I developed some negative feelings for modern-day management people and their carrier-structures. I perceve it as being poisonous for the industries they are working in. And for the standards and ethics, that made them great and successfull a long time ago.

[joeqsmith]

Besides the problems with the Gossen Ultra's hardware design, I doubt I will ever get the bad taste out of my mouth when the distributor in the USA lied about what I had asked them.   Rather then asking me, they chose to propagate that same lie to another unrelated customer.   That's some really top notch business practices.   

Still, if Gossen ever came out with an improved version of the Ultra, I would certainly be willing to take the time to have another look. 

Brymen has been the only company who has shown any interest in my testing.  Outside of supplying me with a few of their meters and componentns, nothing else has ever been exchanged.   They get my labor, use of my home lab and what ever tiny bit of knowledge I bring to the table free of charge.   They also get to watch the same very dry and unprofessional videos.   The risk they are taking must outweigh the reward.  I wonder if it has had much of an effect on their sales, good or bad. 

Speaking of Brymen, the BM789 is on the chopping blocks now.   

[Cymaphore]

The risk they are taking must outweigh the reward.  I wonder if it has had much of an effect on their sales, good or bad.

Speaking of Brymen, the BM789 is on the chopping blocks now.

The BM789 on my desk here is a direct consequence of you trying to kill the BM786, where it performed remarkable in the process. Your tests told me more about the device then an ad or soft review could ever do.

I disagree with you about the professionalism of your videos. Yes, no "chrome", no high gloss, no fancy music, no buzzwords, no white gloves and no ironed lab coat with your logo on it. Sure, you don't have it.

But all the relevant information is there, precise approach, fine documentation of all the steps, knowing and respecting the relevant standards, willingness to not miss details, it's all there. If that is unprofessional, I don't know what's professional. Sure, it's something like a hackerspace-environment and such, but who cares. Surely some powerpoint-heroes with the trade-fair attitude will disagree. But they can go... Somewhere, for what I care.

You don't make high gloss product presentations. You put the devices to brutal testing. That's what I'm interested in when getting tools and eqipment. The BM786 bravely stood it's ground.

HKJ does a similar thing with the tests, the numbers and the tables and making it all comparable, that's why I enjoy reading his site so much and provides a software where I can repeat some of the details in case it might be of interest to me.

You people somehow fill a gap the manufacturers, their marketing people and the professional tech journals leave wide open and you're doing it well, at least I think so.

[Fungus]

The risk they are taking must outweigh the reward.  I wonder if it has had much of an effect on their sales, good or bad.

Speaking of Brymen, the BM789 is on the chopping blocks now.

The BM789 on my desk here is a direct consequence of you trying to kill the BM786, where it performed remarkable in the process. Your tests told me more about the device then an ad or soft review could ever do.

Yep. Your work has definitely helped to cement the reputation of Brymen around here and prove that Fluke isn't the only game in town when it comes to robust meters.

It also helped confirm that Fluke deserves its reputation (if not its price tag) and that not all expensive meters are built that way.

[mqsaharan]

I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe. Kudos to Joe as well. He also paid out of his own pocket for these meters and provided us with such details that are out of reach of most people.

In my case, I wanted to know how robust (not safe) these meters were.  Contrary to many reviewers, I lack the expertise to look at a meter and make that determination. The only way to sort it out was to run them to failure against some common standard.    Early on comparing cheap $50 meters, indeed I sent a very high percentage of them to the recycle bins.  Towards the end of my testing, I was looking at a better class of meters.  Most of these were repairable or never damaged. 

The testing has expanded to look at the functional switches wear and how common chemicals effect the materials.  It's all potentially destructive and not something we find in the manuals.

Hi Joe,
I heard you saying in one of your videos (I don't remember which one) that you don't throw away any meter that you alter for the sake of increased robustness. I figured if you have multimeter cadavers lying around, at some point, you might want to bury or cremate them.
Then again 'Multimeter Graveyard' might be the only way for you. 'Multimeter Crematorium' might not be allowed due to Environment Protection Laws. (Just kidding. Of course a small junk box or a hammer to the altered area on the circuit board might be enough for these.)

I do understand that a destructive test is the only way to learn how robust a meter is.
I love your videos. After getting the basics from Dave's videos, yours were the ones that gave me a deeper understanding of multimeter protection.

Regards,
Qasim.

[joeqsmith]

To date, the only meters that I have recycled have been damaged beyond repair (non standard ICs damaged).    The ones I have recycled were separated by plastics, metal and PCB.  Materials were then placed into appropriate bins. 

As I have stated a few times, I plan to cut up the PCBs from the meters that have been modified and then recycle them.

[armandine2]

I might be missing something but your 1252B seems to have morphed into 1252A on your tables?

I quite like the 1252B look but perhaps not enough to purchase one at the moment - albeit I can feel a certain handheld DMM craving

[HKJ]

I might be missing something but your 1252B seems to have morphed into 1252A on your tables?

Thanks, it is fixed.

[armandine2]

Just checked your tables for my last two meter's IP rating -  so assume my Fluke 287 and Kyoritisu  KEW1052 are not IP rated. it is one of the specs I make a note of - though i'm a little unsure how to interpret each of their dashes (-)

[whill44]

I bought a BM869s based on Joeqsmith's real world tests. So that's one sale Bryman got from his work. I freely admit it has ten times more functionally that I will ever make use of, (I use to be a commercial electrician) but it had the most bang for the buck. My only complaint is the cruel back light timer which they've addressed in the new firmware. To late for me alas. Your good work is known Joe keep it up.

[HKJ]

Just checked your tables for my last two meter's IP rating -  so assume my Fluke 287 and Kyoritisu  KEW1052 are not IP rated. it is one of the specs I make a note of - though i'm a little unsure how to interpret each of their dashes (-)

The IP rating is directly from the datasheet for the meter and if I did not find a IP rating I used a dash.
It do not say anything about how well the meter handles dust and water, but you might find some notes in the datasheet about it.

[Bobson]

I like Appa (Benning) DMMs very much, but do not consider them to be high end. They miss essential features and have bad UI design.
For example, Appa 506 has C/F temp readout switch BOTH in setup and keyboard, but hides HiRes/LoRes mode in setup only. WTF?
Especially I hate all DMMs, which have AC+DC voltage and dual display, and in the same time do not provide ability to show AC+DC and AC or DC at the same time, showing only useless frequency.

I consider CEM DT 9979 and 9989 to be really high-end instruments, despite non-working bluetooth. They show AC and DC simultaneously, have crest factor measurements and 100kHz BW. Also good feature is built-in help facility (however, it is in Chinglish).

Your DMM reviews are very good, and thank you very much for listing BW measurements! They should be included in all serious DMM reviews, IMHO.

[joeqsmith]

I like Appa (Benning) DMMs very much, but do not consider them to be high end. They miss essential features and have bad UI design.
For example, Appa 506 has C/F temp readout switch BOTH in setup and keyboard, but hides HiRes/LoRes mode in setup only. WTF?
Especially I hate all DMMs, which have AC+DC voltage and dual display, and in the same time do not provide ability to show AC+DC and AC or DC at the same time, showing only useless frequency.

I consider CEM DT 9979 and 9989 to be really high-end instruments, despite non-working bluetooth. They show AC and DC simultaneously, have crest factor measurements and 100kHz BW. Also good feature is built-in help facility (however, it is in Chinglish).

Your DMM reviews are very good, and thank you very much for listing BW measurements! They should be included in all serious DMM reviews, IMHO.

Looks nice.

[DrBob1900]

Why wouldn't the EEVBlog BM786 compete with these meters?  From precision and accuracy standpoint it seems as good or better.  Are the ranges different (e.g. can measure lower ohms, lower current, etc.).  Or is it build quality, or bells and whistles?  I'm buying a multimeter. 

[Fungus]

Why wouldn't the EEVBlog BM786 compete with these meters?

It would.

is it build quality, or bells and whistles?

No.

[HKJ]

Why wouldn't the EEVBlog BM786 compete with these meters?  From precision and accuracy standpoint it seems as good or better.  Are the ranges different (e.g. can measure lower ohms, lower current, etc.).  Or is it build quality, or bells and whistles?  I'm buying a multimeter.

I wanted meters with computer connection, high AC bandwidth and preferable also with lots of bells and whistles. I included the best matching Brymen meter.

[wasyoungonce]

Thanks for the link...interesting reading

[Fungus]

I wanted meters with computer connection, high AC bandwidth and preferable also with lots of bells and whistles. I included the best matching Brymen meter.

The BM786 doesn't have computer connection but there's similarly-priced Brymens that do, eg. the BM869s.