A look at high end multimeters

[HKJ]

I compare most high end multimeters and try to show the differences between them.


The meters included are: Benning MM12, Brymen 869s, Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293, EEVBlog 121GW, Fluke 87V Max, Fluke 289, Gossen MetraWatt MetraHit Energy, Gossen MetraWatt MetraHit PM Prime, Hioki DT4282, Keysight U1252B, Keysight U1272A, Keysight U1282A, Kyoritsu KEW1062, Metrix MTX3291, Sanwa PC7000, UNI-T UT181A


I have all the meters and may be able to answer questions about them.

[Avelino Sampaio]

Hi

My best multimeter, recently purchased, is an Aneng AN870. I'm saving every penny to get a Brymen 869s. My daughter will bring it from Germany. Its value is 210.00 Euros. What can you say about Brymen? Exclusive use in electronics, low voltage. My biggest focus is on analog electronics. I'm also very interested in metrology.  Am I buying a cannon to kill mosquitoes? Do you suggest any other model, within this 200 Euros budget?

[HKJ]

Brymen 860s ?

Brymen is a good brand. For audio you may also want a function generator, then you can do frequency response curves. To automate that you need a computer interface for the meter and a computer controlled function generator (See TestControllers list of supported equipment).

For low voltage a cheap meter is safe enough, but a meter like Brymen is much more reliable.
For analog a BM257s is probably enough (I have not reviewed it, but I have it and like it).

[2N3055]

The meters included are: Benning MM12, Brymen 869s, Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293, EEVBlog 121GW, Fluke 87V Max, Fluke 289, Gossen MetraWatt MetraHit Energy, Gossen MetraWatt MetraHit PM Prime, Hioki DT4282, Keysight U1252B, Keysight U1272A, Keysight U1282A, Kyoritsu KEW1062, Metrix MTX3291, Sanwa PC7000, UNI-T UT181A


I have all the meters and may be able to answer questions about them.

Just a note: On MTX3293 VAC/VDC best resolution is 1 uV not 10uV. That is in 100mV range. Trick is that it won't autorange to that range... 100mV range is only manual... I presume CA 5293 will be the same.

[HKJ]

Just a note: On MTX3293 VAC/VDC best resolution is 1 uV not 10uV. That is in 100mV range. Trick is that it won't autorange to that range... 100mV range is only manual... I presume CA 5293 will be the same.

Oops. table is fixed.

[ResistorRob]

Very nice collection! That Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293 is absolutely amazing. They put it in such an ugly case and form factor, but otherwise seems perfect. Not many people selling it or the Metrix version. I only found 1 place that had it in stock and that also ships to America and they wanted close to a thousand dollars for it! If they put it in a normal case and charged $500 they would sell thousands of them!

[HKJ]

They put it in such an ugly case and form factor, but otherwise seems perfect.

Looks can always be discussed, but they had to move the input terminals to keep the size reasonable.

Not many people selling it or the Metrix version. I only found 1 place that had it in stock and that also ships to America and they wanted close to a thousand dollars for it! If they put it in a normal case and charged $500 they would sell thousands of them!

The price for the BT model is about the same as Fluke 289 in a shop I checked, the model without Bluetooth is considerable cheaper. Compared to the Fluke 289 you get more for you money (Interface cable, PC-software, calibration certificate).

[2N3055]

Very nice collection! That Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293 is absolutely amazing. They put it in such an ugly case and form factor, but otherwise seems perfect. Not many people selling it or the Metrix version. I only found 1 place that had it in stock and that also ships to America and they wanted close to a thousand dollars for it! If they put it in a normal case and charged $500 they would sell thousands of them!

You are so wrong. Case is perfect and much more ergonomic and better size than any meter with classic case. It is fits in a hand much better. Who cares how it looks like..

[coromonadalix]

PLS  don't start a war on the looks loll

High End for me is the Gossen and the Metrix Chauvin Arnoux    And  Appa too have a 100k count model

Above 60k counts


But   without being rude  you seem to take the same route than  the evvblog  meters charts we have here ??

[AndrewBCN]

Wow, what an impressive collection of excellent multimeters. I have just one question and I guess many people are curious about the same thing: which one, in your opinion, offers the best "bang for the buck" for general-purpose use  ?

[HKJ]

Wow, what an impressive collection of excellent multimeters. I have just one question and I guess many people are curious about the same thing: which one, in your opinion, offers the best "bang for the buck" for general-purpose use  ?

I do not really keep track of the price of the different meters and there is also the point about what you need.
Some thoughts:
The Benning is mostly out for electronic due to lack of uA range.
The  Keysight U1282A is out due to its slow speed, I cannot keep calm while working with it 
The UNI-T is a very impressive meter, but I am not that happy about the battery, it will probably have to be replaced in 5-10 years (due to age) with whatever I can find.
The Sanwa and Brymen is nearly the same, except for frequency range and one/two thermocouplers, for this reason I prefer the Brymen.

With the above said, it is more a question about what you need.
I have sometimes used the high voltage diode mode, it is much easier and safer than rigging something with a power supply.
The Energy meter has been very useful because it can measure watt and I have also saved fuses by using it to measure current.
I often use a meter to check direction in leds, this means the Fluke 87V is out, it cannot light a white led.

One point where there is a significant difference between the meters is the high mA range, the meters with one current input and EEVBlog 121GW all have lower burden voltage there because they are using the 10A fuse, not the 400mA fuse that has around 1ohm resistance (The shunt resistance typically 1ohm in that range).

[ResistorRob]

It is fits in a hand much better. Who cares how it looks like..

ME!!!!
Otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it, haha

I just like to sit back and admire the beauty of all the equipment on my workbench!
But yeah, I agree the form factor is probably better as far as function goes.
I'm not a hater. I think it's an amazing meter, and I'm saving up for it after reading the comparison chart.
Maybe the looks of it will grow on me over time.

[Fungus]

this means the Fluke 87V is out, it cannot light a white led.

To be clear, it's the 87V MAX that can't light LEDs. The normal 87V can light them no problem.

(I believe the 87V can go up to about 7V in diode test mode... I don't own one though :-) )

[Caliaxy]

this means the Fluke 87V is out, it cannot light a white led.

To be clear, it's the 87V MAX that can't light LEDs. The normal 87V can light them no problem.

(I believe the 87V can go up to about 7V in diode test mode... I don't own one though :-) )

Yes, it does. The (measured) open voltage is about 7.3V. It can light up quite strongly two white LEDs in series (even three, very dimly). Unfortunately, it chooses not to display any voltage over 3V.

[2N3055]

It is fits in a hand much better. Who cares how it looks like..

ME!!!!
Otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it, haha

I just like to sit back and admire the beauty of all the equipment on my workbench!
But yeah, I agree the form factor is probably better as far as function goes.
I'm not a hater. I think it's an amazing meter, and I'm saving up for it after reading the comparison chart.
Maybe the looks of it will grow on me over time.

It actually looks quite fancy and futuristic to me... And it is great instrument.  You have high current/voltage mode ( 10 mA/27V ) diode test for instance. Single socket for current is great.. Many advanced features...Math, support for custom current shunts / clamps etc.. etc..
It is very precise, pretty much several time better than spec. AC RMS goes to 300 kHz..
It is basically 5.5 digit benchtop meter in a handheld.. With some added functions..

It does kill batteries quickly, but they are rechargeable, and you can charge while working....
Quickly means a week or two of all day work. For occasional use more than  a month..
Bateries are NiMh, and you can replace them.. Or even put standard AA if needed.

It comes with IR adapter and can speak proper SCPI for instrument control. They even have decent software for it. Those two things for Gossen Metrawatt alone cost 250-400€ depending on meter....

[richmit]

Not to sound old and grumpy, but I sure do miss my Fluke 189...

-mitch

[Fungus]

Not to sound old and grumpy, but I sure do miss my Fluke 189...

There's still plenty of them around.

[HKJ]

New version of TestController with support for Chauvin Arnoux and Metrix multimeters:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/

This has also shown me that Chauvin Arnoux do not exactly take software bugs serious. I found bugs in both CA5293 and MTX3291 and asked Chauvin Arnoux about one of the bugs, but newer got a useful answer (paraphrased):
My question: The meter sends LF CR instead of CR LF, can you give an estimate on when this will be fixed.
Answer (Second time around): The meter uses LF CR, it is an error.

With this type of answer I did not bother telling them about the other bugs I found.

Note: I did not find any bugs with the actual measurements, only with the protocol.

[mqsaharan]

Hi HKJ,
Thank you very much for your comments on practicality of these meters and summarizing their specs. I always liked your review.
Please do post the frequency response graph for UT181A.
Also, I am patiently waiting for your detailed reviews for Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293, Gossen MetraWatt MetraHit Energy, Keysight U1272A and UNI-T UT181A. I hope you'll make and post these someday.

I have a question regarding MetraHit Energy. Its manual says that it can only measure up to 700mA continuously. I think it is because of the surface mount current shunt. How much does it actually deviate if you measure a few amperes for a few hours?
I like one terminal current input very much. And both CA 5293 and MetraHit Energy has such limitations. CA 5293 is better with 7A continuous current specs. But I am not sure because it also uses a surface mount current shunt. And unlike MetraHit Energy it is two terminal device.

A little addition/correction for your High End meter page:
Fluke 289/287 also has a Bluetooth adapter like Keysight meters. Check out the following links:
https://www.fluke.com/en-gb/product/accessories/adapters/fluke-ir3000-fc
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/accessories/wireless-fluke-connect-accessories/wireless-fluke-connect-module-ir3000fc.htm
I guess this same adapter can also be used with 189.

Regards,
Qasim.

[HKJ]

Thank you very much for your comments on practicality of these meters and summarizing their specs. I always liked your review.
Please do post the frequency response graph for UT181A.

I cannot do that before it is supported in TestController.

Also, I am patiently waiting for your detailed reviews for Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293, Gossen MetraWatt MetraHit Energy, Keysight U1272A and UNI-T UT181A. I hope you'll make and post these someday.

I will not promise anything and the Energy meter is definitely not on the review list.

I have a question regarding MetraHit Energy. Its manual says that it can only measure up to 700mA continuously. I think it is because of the surface mount current shunt. How much does it actually deviate if you measure a few amperes for a few hours?
I like one terminal current input very much. And both CA 5293 and MetraHit Energy has such limitations. CA 5293 is better with 7A continuous current specs. But I am not sure because it also uses a surface mount current shunt. And unlike MetraHit Energy it is two terminal device.

My manual says:
16A for max 30 seconds
10A for max 5 minutes

When using a current clamp with current output the maximum current is 0.7A continuous through the meter

A little addition/correction for your High End meter page:
Fluke 289/287 also has a Bluetooth adapter like Keysight meters. Check out the following links:
https://www.fluke.com/en-gb/product/accessories/adapters/fluke-ir3000-fc
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/accessories/wireless-fluke-connect-accessories/wireless-fluke-connect-module-ir3000fc.htm
I guess this same adapter can also be used with 189.

Thanks.

[BeBuLamar]

A little addition/correction for your High End meter page:
Fluke 289/287 also has a Bluetooth adapter like Keysight meters. Check out the following links:
https://www.fluke.com/en-gb/product/accessories/adapters/fluke-ir3000-fc
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/accessories/wireless-fluke-connect-accessories/wireless-fluke-connect-module-ir3000fc.htm
I guess this same adapter can also be used with 189.

Regards,
Qasim.

I bought 2 Fluke IR3000FC units from Grainger. One was working perfectly with both the 189 and 289. The other didn't work with the 287 or 289 (didn't test with the 189). I had Grainger exchanged for me twice and it still didn't work. All the units that didn't work have higher serial number than the one that worked. So Grainger decided to have a Fluke representative to come to my plant and tried to help me with the units. The first thing he did was updated the firmware of the unit that worked and made it no longer worked. So basically he gave up, and had me returned all the units and Grainger refunded. The Fluke representative gave me a free Fluke A3000FC ammeter he said for my trouble with the IR3000FC. But I wish that I could have a couple of the IR3000FC that work.

[mqsaharan]

Also, I am patiently waiting for your detailed reviews for Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293, Gossen MetraWatt MetraHit Energy, Keysight U1272A and UNI-T UT181A. I hope you'll make and post these someday.

I will not promise anything and the Energy meter is definitely not on the review list.

I know it is a hard and tedious job. And it takes a lot of time, too. But you have the means to do it. And I was just hoping that if you could spare some time then someday, in the future, you'll make and post reviews for these meters on your website.
Its sad to read that you have completely excluded MetraHit Energy from your review list. But I'm sure you have your reasons.
May I request that when ever you'll decide to get your MetraHit Energy calibrated and adjusted, please make a review for this meter before sending it to the lab.

I have a question regarding MetraHit Energy. Its manual says that it can only measure up to 700mA continuously. I think it is because of the surface mount current shunt. How much does it actually deviate if you measure a few amperes for a few hours?
I like one terminal current input very much. And both CA 5293 and MetraHit Energy has such limitations. CA 5293 is better with 7A continuous current specs. But I am not sure because it also uses a surface mount current shunt. And unlike MetraHit Energy it is two terminal device.

My manual says:
16A for max 30 seconds
10A for max 5 minutes

When using a current clamp with current output the maximum current is 0.7A continuous through the meter

Aah, I forgot the 10A for 5 minutes with >30 minutes rest. Thanks.
I checked the specifications again and suddenly realized that It is more of a lab instrument than a field unit, same as CA5293.

Thanks for your efforts.

[HKJ]

I know it is a hard and tedious job. And it takes a lot of time, too. But you have the means to do it. And I was just hoping that if you could spare some time then someday, in the future, you'll make and post reviews for these meters on your website.
Its sad to read that you have completely excluded MetraHit Energy from your review list. But I'm sure you have your reasons.
May I request that when ever you'll decide to get your MetraHit Energy calibrated and adjusted, please make a review for this meter before sending it to the lab.

For the other meters I have started a file for a review, i.e. I have taken photos of box and meter and put them in my DMM review folder.

I checked the specifications again and suddenly realized that It is more of a lab instrument than a field unit, same as CA5293.

I am not sure how you get that idea. They are both fairly robust meters, but have some limits (Look at CAT, IP and temperature). Another point is that a cheaper meter would often work as well for the required measurements and would be a less issue to replace if damaged.

[armandine2]

robust meters - definitely in the top end price bracket

Fluke 28ii - Ex
Gossen IM e-drive
Gossen IM xtra



for some reason they don't seem to get the videos they deserve.

[mqsaharan]

For the other meters I have started a file for a review, i.e. I have taken photos of box and meter and put them in my DMM review folder.

Thank you very much for that.

And I also thank you for not getting angry that I am bringing up the topic of MetraHit Energy review again and again even though you have said no. I actually forgot one very important part during my last request for MetraHit Energy review. That is:
There is no need to dismantle the meter because we already have the inside video of it from Dave. Just review it from operational point of view. You usually highlight some points of the equipment that shows the practical limitations of it that are skipped by the manufacturer. For example, I was surprised to read that nS function is kind of fake on this meter.

I checked the specifications again and suddenly realized that It is more of a lab instrument than a field unit, same as CA5293.

I am not sure how you get that idea. They are both fairly robust meters, but have some limits (Look at CAT, IP and temperature). Another point is that a cheaper meter would often work as well for the required measurements and would be a less issue to replace if damaged.

I may be wrong in my assessment. But I got the idea when I saw in the specifications that the meter can survive overload condition for AC and DC voltage functions only. It may not survive overload condition for more than 10 seconds on other functions.
I am not saying it is not well built. It is. I am just saying that it feels like it is designed to be used in a lab like environment or on a bench.

[HKJ]

And I also thank you for not getting angry that I am bringing up the topic of MetraHit Energy review again and again even though you have said no.

I have said no to review my current meter, this is because it is rather old, as can be seen on the photos (Calibration date 10-10). It do not mean I will not review a Gossen Energy meter, only that I will not review my current meter. If I get around to publish DMM reviews again I may buy a new Energy meter (It is expensive, but not prohibitive) and review it (Note: I have paid for all my reviewed and other DMMs, I have never got a free DMM).

There is no need to dismantle the meter because we already have the inside video of it from Dave. Just review it from operational point of view. You usually highlight some points of the equipment that shows the practical limitations of it that are skipped by the manufacturer. For example, I was surprised to read that nS function is kind of fake on this meter.

I will need to dismantle it, that is a part or my review.
When I do reviews I try to look at both good and bad sides of a device. I like the Gossen Energy meter, but I also know the bad sides of if very well. My list of most advanced multimeters are:

Gossen Energy
Fluke 289
UNI-T UT181A
Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293

They each has good and bad points (The CA win in user interface and Energy is at the bottom, but Energy is the only meter that do Power. I could add a couple more good/bad points for different meters).

If somebody now other meters that can match these meters in functionality please post it (Not rebrands or reduced models).

[mqsaharan]

And I also thank you for not getting angry that I am bringing up the topic of MetraHit Energy review again and again even though you have said no.

I have said no to review my current meter, this is because it is rather old, as can be seen on the photos (Calibration date 10-10). It do not mean I will not review a Gossen Energy meter, only that I will not review my current meter. If I get around to publish DMM reviews again I may buy a new Energy meter (It is expensive, but not prohibitive) and review it (Note: I have paid for all my reviewed and other DMMs, I have never got a free DMM).

There is no need to dismantle the meter because we already have the inside video of it from Dave. Just review it from operational point of view. You usually highlight some points of the equipment that shows the practical limitations of it that are skipped by the manufacturer. For example, I was surprised to read that nS function is kind of fake on this meter.

I will need to dismantle it, that is a part or my review.
When I do reviews I try to look at both good and bad sides of a device. I like the Gossen Energy meter, but I also know the bad sides of if very well. My list of most advanced multimeters are:

Gossen Energy
Fluke 289
UNI-T UT181A
Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293

They each has good and bad points (The CA win in user interface and Energy is at the bottom, but Energy is the only meter that do Power. I could add a couple more good/bad points for different meters).

If somebody now other meters that can match these meters in functionality please post it (Not rebrands or reduced models).

Thank you for the explanation. Wow, I did not know that you purchased all these meters out of your own pocket. Kudos to you for providing such details about all these meters. I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe. Kudos to Joe as well. He also paid out of his own pocket for these meters and provided us with such details that are out of reach of most people.

Its interesting that your MetraHit Energy has more than 10 years old calibration. I just realized from your reply that this one and a few other meters that you use could have very old calibration. A comparison of these high end multimeters that are in your use with about a decade old calibration is a must. When you get a chance, please do that comparison.

Hats off to all you people who are sharing their knowledge and helping others via such forums.

[HKJ]

I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe.

I do not like destroying stuff, I more tend to put it on a shelf or give it away.

Its interesting that your MetraHit Energy has more than 10 years old calibration. I just realized from your reply that this one and a few other meters that you use could have very old calibration. A comparison of these high end multimeters that are in your use with about a decade old calibration is a must. When you get a chance, please do that comparison.

A fast comparison at 1V (Done fast, i.e. not time for temperatures to stabilize):
Keysight 34470A     0.9999349   
Fluke 8846A            0.999923
Fluke 189                0.9995
CA5293                   0.99975
Gossen Energy        1.0024
Gossen PM Prime     1.0016

A fast comparison at 10V (Done fast, i.e. not time for temperatures to stabilize):
Keysight 34470A     10.000279
Fluke 8846A             10.00019
Fluke 189                 9.9996
CA5293                    9.9995
Gossen Energy         10.021
Gossen PM Prime     10.016

The Gossen Energy, Fluke 189 & Fluke 8846A are old meters, i.e. 10+ years.
The CA5293 & Gossen PM Prime are new meters, i.e. less than a year old.

I used a PDVS2 for this test.

[HKJ]

Thank you for the explanation. Wow, I did not know that you purchased all these meters out of your own pocket.

That statement was a bit to all encompassing, I have got some (Not many) of the cheap(er) meters for free, when that is the case it is listed in the review.
With some of my other review stuff I get a lot for free, especially LiIon batteries.

[joeqsmith]

I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe. Kudos to Joe as well. He also paid out of his own pocket for these meters and provided us with such details that are out of reach of most people.

In my case, I wanted to know how robust (not safe) these meters were.  Contrary to many reviewers, I lack the expertise to look at a meter and make that determination. The only way to sort it out was to run them to failure against some common standard.    Early on comparing cheap $50 meters, indeed I sent a very high percentage of them to the recycle bins.  Towards the end of my testing, I was looking at a better class of meters.  Most of these were repairable or never damaged. 

The testing has expanded to look at the functional switches wear and how common chemicals effect the materials.  It's all potentially destructive and not something we find in the manuals. 

[Cymaphore]

Contrary to many reviewers, I lack the expertise to look at a meter and make that determination. The only way to sort it out was to run them to failure against some common standard.

I would say it's more than that. You're taking the approach of a proper test engineer.

One can easily examine and evaluate individual parts and an assembly. But to make a solid statement about a complex device or machine with many interacting factors including durability, there is still no way around proper testing. Find an appropriate test method and -standard, make it repeatable, documented, record everything and then examine and understand the results. That's how it's done after the creatores are sure it's perfect.

That's why the durability test stands I have at work exist. These big drive batteries and their surrounding modules are not badly designed at all. Everything is nice and well and looks decent. But looking at specs, schematics, numbers and the thing itself is not enough. That's why the durability test is now rarely standing still. 40.000 to 120.000 km equivalent (compressed) of test stand hours with shaking/vibration, electrical charge/discharge profile and temperature profile tell you things that no simulation or expertise can ever provide and no test track hours can ever do.

You reminded me once before, that my judgement about a multimeters input protection and such was too quick and too much based on theoretical information, and you were correct. I would have never done that kind of judgement at work with a 80kW battery under test.

[joeqsmith]

Outside of the EMC standard,  I'm not aware of any industry standards for comparing robustness, only safety.  I am not sure what proper testing would even be.  Comparing the meters in such a way isn't something I had seen done before.  The problem with using the safety standard as a starting point for evaluating the DMM's front end is you get a lot of confusion.   One thing is certain is there are companies for what ever reason design and manufacture products that are very robust compared with others.   

I think one of the most memorable meters I looked at was the Gossen M248B.  At about $1000 USD (shipping + tax),  I was surprised by some of the design choices that were made.   When the magnetic hanger caused the latching relays to change states and in turn, caused the meter to not display the voltage properly, that's a very bad choice.   When you don't add shielding to the meter and any attempts to get near it causes the readings to fluctuate, that's again a bad choice.   It was bad enough that I placed the meter in an anechoic chamber, along with a few others and ran a sweep on it.   That meter had other problems as well but I think the best part was Gossen rebranded the M248B Ultra to Prime for some strange reason.   Did they ever actually improve the design?

It's the stuff you don't find in the manuals that I found interesting.

[Cymaphore]

It's the stuff you don't find in the manuals that I found interesting.

You applied something that I would describe as a professional test engineers mindset (regardless of your background, that I don't know about) to the task. And in doing so, you professionally and without mercy uncovered some serious issues. Something the manufacturer should have found and corrected before release. Together with the completely unacceptable reaction by the them, that demonstrated the whole disgrace this is for german engineering. They cannot just live of a big name, manufacture in india and hope people will go on paying big time for their products while their management is making party on huge profits.

It's not exclusive to german manufactures. It's happening with too many big names in industrial countries. The arrogance of management types with expensive suits not caring about responsibility for products and consumers.

Maybe I'm a bit "burned" by personal experiences in recent years, but I developed some negative feelings for modern-day management people and their carrier-structures. I perceve it as being poisonous for the industries they are working in. And for the standards and ethics, that made them great and successfull a long time ago.

[joeqsmith]

Besides the problems with the Gossen Ultra's hardware design, I doubt I will ever get the bad taste out of my mouth when the distributor in the USA lied about what I had asked them.   Rather then asking me, they chose to propagate that same lie to another unrelated customer.   That's some really top notch business practices.   

Still, if Gossen ever came out with an improved version of the Ultra, I would certainly be willing to take the time to have another look. 

Brymen has been the only company who has shown any interest in my testing.  Outside of supplying me with a few of their meters and componentns, nothing else has ever been exchanged.   They get my labor, use of my home lab and what ever tiny bit of knowledge I bring to the table free of charge.   They also get to watch the same very dry and unprofessional videos.   The risk they are taking must outweigh the reward.  I wonder if it has had much of an effect on their sales, good or bad. 

Speaking of Brymen, the BM789 is on the chopping blocks now.   

[Cymaphore]

The risk they are taking must outweigh the reward.  I wonder if it has had much of an effect on their sales, good or bad.

Speaking of Brymen, the BM789 is on the chopping blocks now.

The BM789 on my desk here is a direct consequence of you trying to kill the BM786, where it performed remarkable in the process. Your tests told me more about the device then an ad or soft review could ever do.

I disagree with you about the professionalism of your videos. Yes, no "chrome", no high gloss, no fancy music, no buzzwords, no white gloves and no ironed lab coat with your logo on it. Sure, you don't have it.

But all the relevant information is there, precise approach, fine documentation of all the steps, knowing and respecting the relevant standards, willingness to not miss details, it's all there. If that is unprofessional, I don't know what's professional. Sure, it's something like a hackerspace-environment and such, but who cares. Surely some powerpoint-heroes with the trade-fair attitude will disagree. But they can go... Somewhere, for what I care.

You don't make high gloss product presentations. You put the devices to brutal testing. That's what I'm interested in when getting tools and eqipment. The BM786 bravely stood it's ground.

HKJ does a similar thing with the tests, the numbers and the tables and making it all comparable, that's why I enjoy reading his site so much and provides a software where I can repeat some of the details in case it might be of interest to me.

You people somehow fill a gap the manufacturers, their marketing people and the professional tech journals leave wide open and you're doing it well, at least I think so.

[Fungus]

The risk they are taking must outweigh the reward.  I wonder if it has had much of an effect on their sales, good or bad.

Speaking of Brymen, the BM789 is on the chopping blocks now.

The BM789 on my desk here is a direct consequence of you trying to kill the BM786, where it performed remarkable in the process. Your tests told me more about the device then an ad or soft review could ever do.

Yep. Your work has definitely helped to cement the reputation of Brymen around here and prove that Fluke isn't the only game in town when it comes to robust meters.

It also helped confirm that Fluke deserves its reputation (if not its price tag) and that not all expensive meters are built that way.

[mqsaharan]

I think and hope that you don't have a 'Multimeter Graveyard' in your backyard like Joe. Kudos to Joe as well. He also paid out of his own pocket for these meters and provided us with such details that are out of reach of most people.

In my case, I wanted to know how robust (not safe) these meters were.  Contrary to many reviewers, I lack the expertise to look at a meter and make that determination. The only way to sort it out was to run them to failure against some common standard.    Early on comparing cheap $50 meters, indeed I sent a very high percentage of them to the recycle bins.  Towards the end of my testing, I was looking at a better class of meters.  Most of these were repairable or never damaged. 

The testing has expanded to look at the functional switches wear and how common chemicals effect the materials.  It's all potentially destructive and not something we find in the manuals.

Hi Joe,
I heard you saying in one of your videos (I don't remember which one) that you don't throw away any meter that you alter for the sake of increased robustness. I figured if you have multimeter cadavers lying around, at some point, you might want to bury or cremate them.
Then again 'Multimeter Graveyard' might be the only way for you. 'Multimeter Crematorium' might not be allowed due to Environment Protection Laws. (Just kidding. Of course a small junk box or a hammer to the altered area on the circuit board might be enough for these.)

I do understand that a destructive test is the only way to learn how robust a meter is.
I love your videos. After getting the basics from Dave's videos, yours were the ones that gave me a deeper understanding of multimeter protection.

Regards,
Qasim.

[joeqsmith]

To date, the only meters that I have recycled have been damaged beyond repair (non standard ICs damaged).    The ones I have recycled were separated by plastics, metal and PCB.  Materials were then placed into appropriate bins. 

As I have stated a few times, I plan to cut up the PCBs from the meters that have been modified and then recycle them.

[armandine2]

I might be missing something but your 1252B seems to have morphed into 1252A on your tables?

I quite like the 1252B look but perhaps not enough to purchase one at the moment - albeit I can feel a certain handheld DMM craving

[HKJ]

I might be missing something but your 1252B seems to have morphed into 1252A on your tables?

Thanks, it is fixed.

[armandine2]

Just checked your tables for my last two meter's IP rating -  so assume my Fluke 287 and Kyoritisu  KEW1052 are not IP rated. it is one of the specs I make a note of - though i'm a little unsure how to interpret each of their dashes (-)

[whill44]

I bought a BM869s based on Joeqsmith's real world tests. So that's one sale Bryman got from his work. I freely admit it has ten times more functionally that I will ever make use of, (I use to be a commercial electrician) but it had the most bang for the buck. My only complaint is the cruel back light timer which they've addressed in the new firmware. To late for me alas. Your good work is known Joe keep it up.

[HKJ]

Just checked your tables for my last two meter's IP rating -  so assume my Fluke 287 and Kyoritisu  KEW1052 are not IP rated. it is one of the specs I make a note of - though i'm a little unsure how to interpret each of their dashes (-)

The IP rating is directly from the datasheet for the meter and if I did not find a IP rating I used a dash.
It do not say anything about how well the meter handles dust and water, but you might find some notes in the datasheet about it.

[Bobson]

I like Appa (Benning) DMMs very much, but do not consider them to be high end. They miss essential features and have bad UI design.
For example, Appa 506 has C/F temp readout switch BOTH in setup and keyboard, but hides HiRes/LoRes mode in setup only. WTF?
Especially I hate all DMMs, which have AC+DC voltage and dual display, and in the same time do not provide ability to show AC+DC and AC or DC at the same time, showing only useless frequency.

I consider CEM DT 9979 and 9989 to be really high-end instruments, despite non-working bluetooth. They show AC and DC simultaneously, have crest factor measurements and 100kHz BW. Also good feature is built-in help facility (however, it is in Chinglish).

Your DMM reviews are very good, and thank you very much for listing BW measurements! They should be included in all serious DMM reviews, IMHO.

[joeqsmith]

I like Appa (Benning) DMMs very much, but do not consider them to be high end. They miss essential features and have bad UI design.
For example, Appa 506 has C/F temp readout switch BOTH in setup and keyboard, but hides HiRes/LoRes mode in setup only. WTF?
Especially I hate all DMMs, which have AC+DC voltage and dual display, and in the same time do not provide ability to show AC+DC and AC or DC at the same time, showing only useless frequency.

I consider CEM DT 9979 and 9989 to be really high-end instruments, despite non-working bluetooth. They show AC and DC simultaneously, have crest factor measurements and 100kHz BW. Also good feature is built-in help facility (however, it is in Chinglish).

Your DMM reviews are very good, and thank you very much for listing BW measurements! They should be included in all serious DMM reviews, IMHO.

Looks nice.

[DrBob1900]

Why wouldn't the EEVBlog BM786 compete with these meters?  From precision and accuracy standpoint it seems as good or better.  Are the ranges different (e.g. can measure lower ohms, lower current, etc.).  Or is it build quality, or bells and whistles?  I'm buying a multimeter. 

[Fungus]

Why wouldn't the EEVBlog BM786 compete with these meters?

It would.

is it build quality, or bells and whistles?

No.

[HKJ]

Why wouldn't the EEVBlog BM786 compete with these meters?  From precision and accuracy standpoint it seems as good or better.  Are the ranges different (e.g. can measure lower ohms, lower current, etc.).  Or is it build quality, or bells and whistles?  I'm buying a multimeter.

I wanted meters with computer connection, high AC bandwidth and preferable also with lots of bells and whistles. I included the best matching Brymen meter.

[wasyoungonce]

Thanks for the link...interesting reading

[Fungus]

I wanted meters with computer connection, high AC bandwidth and preferable also with lots of bells and whistles. I included the best matching Brymen meter.

The BM786 doesn't have computer connection but there's similarly-priced Brymens that do, eg. the BM869s.

[Synthtech]

I agree with you on the Keysight U1282A, a great meter but slow as molasses, particularly on the capacitance range.  Mine tends to sit unused on the bench as I usually reach for the Hioki DT4282 as it is so much faster and just as accurate.

[Kean]

I wanted meters with computer connection, high AC bandwidth and preferable also with lots of bells and whistles. I included the best matching Brymen meter.

The BM786 doesn't have computer connection but there's similarly-priced Brymens that do, eg. the BM869s.

Which is included in the review: http://lygte-info.dk/info/DMMHigh-end%20UK.html#Brymen_869s

[HKJ]

The BM786 doesn't have computer connection but there's similarly-priced Brymens that do, eg. the BM869s.

Exactly and it is included in my article.

[armandine2]

I see Benning comes with the software