A more reliable replacement for Brymen BM869S?

[2N3055]

Did you check if AD636 has negative supply?

[tooki]

Did you test the fuses for continuity, or did you also check resistance value? Have you checked the fusible resistors?

Fuses won't affect voltage in any way.

They will if they're bad.

The fuses are in the circuits for the current measurement jacks — voltage measurements don’t go through the fuses at all. (At the very least, I have never seen nor heard of a multimeter with fuses in the voltage input circuit). So a bad fuse won’t affect voltage measurement because they aren’t even in the circuit when doing voltage measurements!

(And lest you cite your user manual again: “fusible resistor” ≠ “fuse”.)

[bdunham7]

Summing all this up, I think that just buying another 869 is probably the fiscally soundest decision, even though I hate the fact I'm buying a known-unreliable meter.

Given the very high prices on Fluke products in the EU, you're probably right. But perhaps take a look at Chauvin Arnoux/Metrix?

Somewhere there's a post or YT video of Dave Jones saying that chip rot will eventually take out most Brymen custom processors so they aren't really a meter that will likely last a lifetime.  There are multiple posts here on EEVBlog and elsewhere about other Brymen 869S owners saying they've had similar problems, often starting with the AC ranges and then progressing to more extensive failure.  Still, an 8-year lifespan isn't terrible and you have less invested should the meter become smashed, stolen or drowned.  And you'll have plenty of spare parts if you blow your new one up somehow.

[tooki]

Given the very high prices on Fluke products in the EU, you're probably right. But perhaps take a look at Chauvin Arnoux/Metrix?

They're no cheaper.

[andrejr]

I don't get how you can think Hioki is expensive but a $400 used Fluke is good value. They're both in the "luxury" class and not good bang per buck.

I obviously don't think that, hence the doubt I expressed. If I could get one for 400, AND the warranty was transferrable, AND the remaining warranty was 8-9 years - then it'd be a good deal, much better than Hioki or Brymen. But that case is very much unrealistic, those second hand ones are likely to be old. As for Hioki, 530eur for 3 years of warranty and almost the same spec of a 200eur Brymen is frankly a joke.

[joeqsmith]

....(At the very least, I have never seen nor heard of a multimeter with fuses in the voltage input circuit). So a bad fuse won’t affect voltage measurement because they aren’t even in the circuit when doing voltage measurements!...

I have ran into it during my testing.   Typically these meters share the current measurement function with the voltage.  They place the fuse as the first component in the input.  You could imagine that every transient would require a new fuse.   This is the reason when people have asked me to look at meters like this, I refuse.

Some of the low cost meters with shared current/voltage used PTCs rather than fuses for the low current inputs.   Very nice for the hobbyist working with low evergy / low voltage circuits. 

I don't get how you can think Hioki is expensive but a $400 used Fluke is good value. They're both in the "luxury" class and not good bang per buck.

Consider that the Fluke 189 that was given to me by a friend who passed away was previously owned by a friend of his who had also passed away.  From the photo, you can see that meter wasn't treated like some lab princess.   Cost of ownership may actually be very good over the meters lifetime.   I would have no problem buying a brand new Fluke.  They just don't make any products that fit my use.   

[KungFuJosh]

I don't get how you can think Hioki is expensive but a $400 used Fluke is good value. They're both in the "luxury" class and not good bang per buck.

I obviously don't think that, hence the doubt I expressed. If I could get one for 400, AND the warranty was transferrable, AND the remaining warranty was 8-9 years - then it'd be a good deal, much better than Hioki or Brymen. But that case is very much unrealistic, those second hand ones are likely to be old. As for Hioki, 530eur for 3 years of warranty and almost the same spec of a 200eur Brymen is frankly a joke.

You need to have realistic expectations. Hioki's meters are generally higher quality than Brymen. That costs money. Their warranties are 3 times longer too, right? I've never owned a Brymen, but a lot of people on this site consider them good quality and reliable. IMO, Hioki is paying for higher quality, and Fluke is paying for quality + brand name (and more weight on the brand name than the quality).

So if the competition costs 3 times as much, just buy 3 Brymens over time if they break. I think your meter's premature death was a Fluke anyway. 🤷

[BILLPOD]

Good Morning Andrejr,   If that was my meter, I would get another.  With a known good meter, by probing back and forth, you could find where the problem lies, You will need a third meter that is higher quality than your cheapo one.  Hey, if you can't fix it, then label it for DC use only and continue to use it.  Whatever you decide to do, please report back here, because many Forum members have this meter, including me, and we are very much interested in what your problem could be.  Thank you in advance for reporting back, and good luck.

[J-R]

I completely recommend pulling this apart and inspecting everything.  PCB, switch contacts, etc..  Apply a voltage to the input and trace it as far as you can.  Check the converter supply voltage and input/output.  What have you to lose at this point?

I did all I could do with a shitty yellow meter, but I stopped myself before I wasted any more time, because I'm a grownup now. Since it's not the switch or anything, it's a circuit problem, and I know I can't really fix that.

Why? Because if I do, I'll have to cal it, and I don't have any calibration equipment, nor friends with a PPM fetish and metrology equipment. I don't plan to pick up a metrology hobby. I also live in Slovenia, a small country with a very small market - this means that any "specialist" services like calibration or similar are more expensive than, say, in LA or NY or London, for what's likely terrible service. Calibrating the meter would likely be more expensive than buying a new one.

Summing all this up, I think that just buying another 869 is probably the fiscally soundest decision, even though I hate the fact I'm buying a known-unreliable meter.

Calibration may not be required, depending on the component that is damaged.

Understandable if you're not wanting to spend any time on this.

What is the used market like over there?  Would you sell the failed unit online or keep it for parts?

... it seems Fungus is too tired to join in, so I'll just do him a favor and point out that he'd suggest the BM859s.

BM857s - I'll take the simplified selector dial over the temperature measurement. 

Oh no!  I was so close!

[Fungus]

I don't get how you can think Hioki is expensive but a $400 used Fluke is good value. They're both in the "luxury" class and not good bang per buck.

Cost of ownership may actually be very good over the meters lifetime.

Sure, but that wasn't the question.

If you live in a place where Brymens are easily available then a Fluke is relatively poor value.

(unless your job requires you to wave a yellow meter at clients as you go through the door)

[bdunham7]

Sure, but that wasn't the question.

If you live in a place where Brymens are easily available then a Fluke is relatively poor value.

OK, what was the question?  If you take the original cost of my Fluke 289 and divide it by the number of years I've had it plus the remaining warranty I'm pretty sure its expected annual cost of ownership is lower than the OP's now defunct Brymen 869S.  ($400 ÷ (14 + 7)) = $19 per year and that number keeps going down as production continues and the warranty extends.  Not including batteries, of course--and rechargeables along with an updated PCB have fixed that. YMMV.

[Fungus]

If you take the original cost of my Fluke 289 and divide it by the number of years I've had it...

OP had bad luck. It happens.

I'll let you know the annual cost of my Brymen if it dies before I do.

[csuhi17]

Sure, but that wasn't the question.

If you live in a place where Brymens are easily available then a Fluke is relatively poor value.

OK, what was the question?  If you take the original cost of my Fluke 289 and divide it by the number of years I've had it plus the remaining warranty I'm pretty sure its expected annual cost of ownership is lower than the OP's now defunct Brymen 869S.  ($400 ÷ (14 + 7)) = $19 per year and that number keeps going down as production continues and the warranty extends.  Not including batteries, of course--and rechargeables along with an updated PCB have fixed that. YMMV.

Where can you buy the Fluke 289 so cheap? The lowest I found was ~1100 Euro, and only 5 years warranty. "Manufacturer Lifetime Warranty"

[bdunham7]

Where can you buy the Fluke 289 so cheap? The lowest I found was ~1100 Euro, and only 5 years warranty. "Manufacturer Lifetime Warranty"

It's not so much where as when--that price was in the US, on special, 14 years ago.  A nice kit too, with the software, USB cable and a Pelican case.  Warranty should still be the "modified lifetime" and at least 10 years but yeah, the price has gone up.  The same kit but without the case is now $1084 USD.

[andrejr]

If you take the original cost of my Fluke 289 and divide it by the number of years I've had it...

OP had bad luck. It happens.

I'll let you know the annual cost of my Brymen if it dies before I do.

I wonder if it's bad luck, or chip rot that Dave mentioned in one of the videos. I guess I'l try tracing the dead meter when I get a new one, just out of curiosity. I wonder if it's the RMS circuit or the main chip.

[beatman]

check this.https://www.nsmarket.gr/en/index/products/multimeters?fby[]=manufacturer-Hioki

[coromonadalix]

no to rant

i had a Brymen  859s, i do regret selling it,   i had many Fluke 189, one particular Mastech 22k count, who had the 2 fuses, and after they got cheaper,  Amprobe am-140  i use very often,  some older Wavetek HD160, Fieldpiece hb77  etc ...

tried the old fluke 83 85 series = ok     totally hated the 289

now ending my life with Gossens ...

it's a matter of finding what fit in your budget and or functions and their protections, and mostly where you can grab them

mostly my choice and motto now are :  DO NOT OPEN ALL / DISMANTLE ALL  to change a F##ing   damn fuse


as for the @OP  member here   

you can sometime find many same dmm chipset related schematics who could help repair your Brymen,   did you ask  Brymen under non disclosure to get schematics ?

the advantages of theses Brymens and or similar chipset brands are, you enter their calibration mode and can redo their cal   if you have stable references and other needed stuff ...  not SW controlled calibration   like Fluke and yes my Gossens at 160$ CAD / ea   

never saw any ic rotting  etc ...  only Fluke supercap problems

Never tried Hioki handhelds,  just bench ones

And finally  as some said 
If Brymen are more available and less pricey than Fluke,  buy them  ...
it does not means that Brymen is less good, you simply had some bad luck with yours ?  and maybe you can repair it ?

The hype over Fluke does not impress me, too high priced for the brand name   (quality is there on some models)  have the lower 6k count model at my job, i simply don't touch them, absolutely brand new for 3 years now,  cal at each year that's all  loll   goes right back in it's box,  we paid over 330$ Cad for each of them, we have around 10 of them ... meh

you have some Keysight too, not too high priced     but no OLED based  .... i would try them if i had one

[Fungus]

Amprobe am-140  i use very often

Fun fact: The AM140 is a rebranded Brymen BM857 

[Fungus]

I wonder if it's bad luck, or chip rot that Dave mentioned in one of the videos.

8 years old is still a youngster in multimeter years.

[joeqsmith]

...
now ending my life with Gossens ...
...
you have some Keysight too, not too high priced     but no OLED based  .... i would try them if i had one

I looked at a Gossen Ultra, rebranded as Prime after my review of it.  The lack of proper shielding on such an expensive meter was a big surprise.   

I evaluated two Keysight meters.   One low end, the other higher end.  Both failed basic transient testing and both had major damaged from my 50,000 cycle life test.  Worse, both were non-repairable due lack of protection to prevent damage to their custom parts.   Again, a big surprise as I have used HP, Agilent brands for decades and have been very pleased with their products for the most part.  Their DMMs, not so much.

[joeqsmith]

I could maybe get a used Fluke for 400, but who knows if the warranty is transferrable and how much of it is left.

I don't get how you can think Hioki is expensive but a $400 used Fluke is good value. They're both in the "luxury" class and not good bang per buck.

Cost of ownership may actually be very good over the meters lifetime.

Sure, but that wasn't the question.

If you live in a place where Brymens are easily available then a Fluke is relatively poor value.

(unless your job requires you to wave a yellow meter at clients as you go through the door)

There was a question?  All I noticed were opinions.   Maybe explain your comment about "luxury" class, bang per buck.  What do you consider is a luxury class meter?   What metrics determine the bang per buck?   Maybe to place a low value on quality and life, and a high value on feature count.

I wonder if it's bad luck, or chip rot that Dave mentioned in one of the videos.

8 years old is still a youngster in multimeter years.

I think that will depend on the quality of the product and its use.  Around here, many of the meters I have looked at had a life of a few months (depending how long they stay in the box).   

[beenai2018]

Since  DC  works  ,but  slower  ,it looks like you  have a  fault  in  more  common paths than just the  AC  portion.

Because  there is  no warranty  left  ,its probably a  good  idea   to take   it apart ,squirt  some  contact  cleaner   on   the  inter pcb  headers and check for  changes.

[Fungus]

Maybe explain your comment about "luxury" class, bang per buck.  What do you consider is a luxury class meter?

Sure thing...!

I consider a meter "luxury class" when there's significantly cheaper meters that can do the same job and have similar build quality.

eg. A hobbyist buying a Fluke in Europe where Brymens are easily available.

Brymens are hard to get in the US but I hear you can buy a dead Fluke for $80 in any pawn shop and send it back to Fluke the get a brand new one. Maybe that's where my confusion comes from.

[rsjsouza]

To the OP: I also agree with others that your meter might be a unit that is placed on the wrong end of the reliability curve.
I have a BM857 bought new from eBay and it has been working quite well for the past 12 years. I have a younger Brymen rebrand from Greenlee (DM-200A) that is also excellent and sees rougher environments (although it is quite new to me, clocking at just above two years).

I would say Brymen is a notch below when compared to the Agilents and Flukes that I have in terms of quality of materials but it is still well above the average of the marketplace.

As for recommendations, I would vouch for the Brymens, especially since you are in Europe. I would take a hard look at the new BM2257, which has quite the bang-per-buck IMO. If you were in the US and wanted the lifetime warranty on a BM869-type, Greenlee would be the brand to buy (I don't know if they honor warranty overseas)
https://www.greenlee.com/us/en/dmm-500k-counts-dm-860a-dm-860a

Good luck in your quest!

[joeqsmith]

Maybe explain your comment about "luxury" class, bang per buck.  What do you consider is a luxury class meter?

Sure thing...!

I consider a meter "luxury class" when there's significantly cheaper meters that can do the same job and have similar build quality.

eg. A hobbyist buying a Fluke in Europe where Brymens are easily available.

Brymens are hard to get in the US but I hear you can buy a dead Fluke for $80 in any pawn shop and send it back to Fluke the get a brand new one. Maybe that's where my confusion comes from.

I think that depends more on the "job" than the brand.  Consider the Fluke 289.  Say it offered features that I need for the job.  It currently costs $700.  But wait, UNI-T offers the UT181A knockoff, with a fancy color display and a few more features for less than half the price of the Fluke.    Maybe you would consider the Fluke a luxury.