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| A more reliable replacement for Brymen BM869S? |
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| joeqsmith:
--- Quote from: Fungus on December 26, 2024, 04:41:06 pm ---If I win the lottery I might buy a Hioki out of curiosity but I don't see a reason to ever buy a Fluke 87V, personally. --- End quote --- It looks like the HIOKI 4282 is only about $400 USD + tax. Less than the 87V but a far more capable meter. I almost bought one instead of the Brymen BM869s. The Brymen had a few features I wanted that were not offered with the HIOKI. --- Quote from: Fungus on December 26, 2024, 04:41:06 pm --- --- Quote from: joeqsmith on December 26, 2024, 02:40:55 pm ---If you look at the data I have collected, you don't find too many brands that repeatably hold up to my tests. --- End quote --- Only Fluke/Brymen/Hioki spring to mind. Maybe there was a Gossen, too, although the Gossen had other problems. I don't recall seeing a Hioki or Gossen undergoing a switch lifecycle test. I was surprised when you didn't zap the Keysight with your capacitor, I thought they'd be able to take 2kV. Even Anengs have survived that much. --- End quote --- That Gossen would kick some ass if the Germans would admit to themselves that the shielding was important. Not only to prevent the electro-mechanical relay from changing states with the magnetic hanger, but to make it immune to your hand placement. Branding it as Prime fixed nothing. You are correct in that I have not life cycle it's, or the low cost HIOKI's selector switches. Because of the length of the test, I've only looked at a few meters. The Keysight is a little princess and did not earn the right to be tested against that capacitor. That test was reserved for the meters that survived the low voltage transient tests. She looks nice on the lab bench measuring resistors and 9V batteries. While I did stress Dave's 121GW (that had already failed), I said that I would not run the virgin 121GW for the same reason. |
| rsjsouza:
--- Quote from: joeqsmith on December 26, 2024, 03:05:15 pm ---I don't think too many people consider my tests as some sort of end all. --- End quote --- I suspect several do, since they touch the funny bone feeling of "revealing the true story behind the industry" (that would give a compelling video title). --- Quote from: joeqsmith on December 26, 2024, 03:05:15 pm --- --- Quote from: rsjsouza on December 26, 2024, 02:10:51 pm ---But my based opinion still stands: Brymens are built a notch lower than these two brands (and I hoped to have models from Sanwa and Hioki to evaluate them in comparison, but $$$ is of the essence). --- End quote --- Based on what metrics? --- End quote --- Naturally this is based on my experience with two meters from the "B" brand, three meters of the "A/K" brand and five or six of the "F" brand. My two Brymens had the following issues: BM857: the flimsy kickstand broke shortly after purchasing and, after Brymen sent me a replacement kickstand, I treated it like a princess. Several years later, it broke again to my dismay. The manufacturer provided no cushion for its battery, rattling when installed. The external rubber boot had several finishing issues, including uneven discoloration. BM251 (Greenlee DM-200A) - came with off-centered jacks that cause some probes to be difficult to insert. The rubber boot stilll has finishing issues and the kickstand is still quite flimsy, although now tied to the rubber boot. The rotary switch is quite stiff but can, at times, be lodged between ranges. But it feels more robust and better built than the BM857. Some will say these are unimportant and prove nothing since they are anecdoctal and are easily fixable, etc. Can't say anything outside of my experience with my two units, but they reveal a lesser quality control when compared to the other two brands and, in my case, reveal a lack of robustness. But overall they are excellent meters in their own merit and I use them extensively, just like my other "A/K" and "F" meters. (edit) fixed bad /quote directive |
| Fungus:
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on December 30, 2024, 01:10:48 pm ---BM857: the flimsy kickstand broke shortly after purchasing and, after Brymen sent me a replacement kickstand, I treated it like a princess. Several years later, it broke again to my dismay. --- End quote --- I confess I don't use the stand much. The logical next step for bench use (after the "string" mod) would be to 3D print a support for it. (or laser cut :) ) |
| joeqsmith:
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on December 30, 2024, 01:10:48 pm --- --- Quote from: joeqsmith on December 26, 2024, 03:05:15 pm ---I don't think too many people consider my tests as some sort of end all. --- End quote --- I suspect several do, since they touch the funny bone feeling of "revealing the true story behind the industry" (that would give a compelling video title). --- End quote --- --- Quote from: rsjsouza on December 30, 2024, 01:10:48 pm --- --- Quote from: joeqsmith on December 26, 2024, 03:05:15 pm --- --- Quote from: rsjsouza on December 26, 2024, 02:10:51 pm ---But my based opinion still stands: Brymens are built a notch lower than these two brands (and I hoped to have models from Sanwa and Hioki to evaluate them in comparison, but $$$ is of the essence). --- End quote --- Based on what metrics? --- End quote --- Naturally this is based on my experience with two meters from the "B" brand, three meters of the "A/K" brand and five or six of the "F" brand. My two Brymens had the following issues: BM857: the flimsy kickstand broke shortly after purchasing and, after Brymen sent me a replacement kickstand, I treated it like a princess. Several years later, it broke again to my dismay. The manufacturer provided no cushion for its battery, rattling when installed. The external rubber boot had several finishing issues, including uneven discoloration. BM251 (Greenlee DM-200A) - came with off-centered jacks that cause some probes to be difficult to insert. The rubber boot stilll has finishing issues and the kickstand is still quite flimsy, although now tied to the rubber boot. The rotary switch is quite stiff but can, at times, be lodged between ranges. But it feels more robust and better built than the BM857. Some will say these are unimportant and prove nothing since they are anecdoctal and are easily fixable, etc. Can't say anything outside of my experience with my two units, but they reveal a lesser quality control when compared to the other two brands and, in my case, reveal a lack of robustness. But overall they are excellent meters in their own merit and I use them extensively, just like my other "A/K" and "F" meters. --- End quote --- I had bought a new Fluke (87V) for testing and the rubber boot also had uneven discoloration. It didn't seem to effect the poor switch design (that meter didn't hold up so well in the life cycle testing). I've seen some alignment problems with the connectors before as well. Agree, these problems point to a problem with their quality control. In the case of the two Agilent / Keysight meters I looked at, forget the poor input protection, the fact their function switches were damaged in so few rotations points to a design problem. Like Gossen not providing adequate shielding, its a design problem. |
| AVGresponding:
It would be interesting (but probably too depressing) to learn what, if any, pressure has been exerted by the parent corporation upon Fluke to cut overhead/increase margin. Especially when you consider the ROI on the 87V must be an investors wet dream, by now. One thing I wish they'd rewind is the boot shape; on the 87, it's flat at the bottom and stable, but the 87V is curved and wobbles :-// I sometimes think about swapping the boots over, during moments of extreme annoyance |
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