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A newbie needs some help with my first DSO

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2N3055:

--- Quote from: nctnico on June 02, 2024, 01:52:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: BillyO on June 02, 2024, 01:45:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 02, 2024, 10:19:45 am ---I need to take you a step back here.

First of all: When you measure something, you want to be able to make a relation between cause and effect so you can draw a conclusion from the measurement result. This may sound obvious but for many it requires training to measure / collect data in a way so it is possible to establish a singular cause & effect relationship.

Secondly: I'm not looking at something which can only occur after the moment of acquisition. I just want 1 acquisition with as much data as possible so I can see what happened before AND after an event. I might not always need the data but with shorter memory DSOs I have often wished to have more data in order to have more information about what happened before and after an error condition. That can show the problem so it can be fixed right away or can give valueable glues on what to set triggers for and thus save a lot of time (and money) instead of poking around in the dark. Keep in mind that my typical measurements are for DUTs which are highly sequential through hardware and/or software.

Back to the history buffer: When I'm debugging / testing embedded firmware / FPGA / hardware, each single shot measurement represents a new version with a fix or change. Which means that whatever is in the history buffer is no longer relevant information as I won't be able to match a specific acquisition with a specific change somewhere. There is no way to draw a meaningfull conclusion from the data in the history buffer. So I rather have no history buffer at all if that means getting more memory for the current acquisition.

A history buffer is only usefull if you can record all relevant information in/by the oscilloscope itself (input versus output) without making changes to the DUT. That way you can draw a meaningfull conclusion from the acquisitions in the history buffer. Keep in mind though that a history buffer and segmented recording are functionally equal it is just that an automatic history buffer is easier to use / setup.

--- End quote ---
I respectfully remain unconvinced.  I think you have convinced yourself of an advantage that is not there.

--- End quote ---
You are allowed to have your own opinion. I'm sorry I can't explain the advantages of zooming out better (they are definitely real!) and you feel the need to go down the ridiculing path instead of just respecting other people's idea even if you don't fully understand them.

--- End quote ---

We understand what are you doing.

We don't understand why do you insist it is universally better than the other way around that achieves same results.

And no, I cannot respect other people opinion (or have any other opinion about it) if I don't understand it.
I do respect that you have right to think whatever you want.
And you have to respect I have the same right. Including thinking you are wrong.

But this is philosophical/legal/freedom of expression-speech  argument.

We are talking here about technical solutions. There is no place for opinions here.
Just facts. Is something faster/more accurate/can do something you cannot otherwise/cheaper.....
Stuff like that.

And please stop calling it "zooming out". It is simple practice to take very long capture in Single/normal  mode and analyze it when stopped by inspecting details in that long capture. Most of the scopes with deep memory can do that.
We all do that already.

BillyO:

--- Quote from: nctnico on June 02, 2024, 01:52:28 pm ---You are allowed to have your own opinion. I'm sorry I can't explain the advantages of zooming out better (they are definitely real!) and you feel the need to go down the ridiculing path instead of just respecting other people's idea even if you don't fully understand them.

--- End quote ---
I'm not ridiculing you at all.   :-//  you must have missed this:
--- Quote ---I respectfully remain unconvinced.
--- End quote ---

Since there is already a way to do exactly what you want (and that way offers complete control of the capture) then the zoom "feature" is just a gimmick.  A perfect analogy would be the "green mode" on a camera verses setting the exposure yourself.  In both the case of the camera's "green mode" and the oscilloscopes "zoom feature" you are letting the device choose how your data is collected.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: BillyO on June 02, 2024, 02:04:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 02, 2024, 01:52:28 pm ---You are allowed to have your own opinion. I'm sorry I can't explain the advantages of zooming out better (they are definitely real!) and you feel the need to go down the ridiculing path instead of just respecting other people's idea even if you don't fully understand them.

--- End quote ---
I'm not ridiculing you at all.   :-//  you must have missed this:
--- Quote ---I respectfully remain unconvinced.
--- End quote ---

Since there is already a way to do exactly what you want (and that way offers complete control of the capture) then the zoom "feature" is just a gimmick.  A perfect analogy would be the "green mode" on a camera verses setting the exposure yourself.  In both the case of the camera's "green mode" and the oscilloscopes "zoom feature" you are letting the device choose how your data is collected.

--- End quote ---
Ofcourse there are always multiple ways to achieve the same goal. Equally, there are less and more effective ways to achieve a goal. For me being able to have information beyond the screen allows me to not having to think about how to setup the scope precisely to capture what I need. No matter what, the data I need is there and thus I can concentrate more on the problem I'm trying to solve rather than messing with the tools. To some this sounds outright insane but it saves me a lot of time.

I know the zoom window can be used for even finer control but that comes at the price of needing to mess with 2 timebases and giving up what is most dearest to me on an oscilloscope: vertical space. Along a similar line you can argue that the history buffer is a useless feature / gimmick because the same can be accomplished using segmented recording which also allows finer control over the precise number of segments.

tautech:

--- Quote from: nctnico on June 02, 2024, 02:11:26 pm ---I know the zoom window can be used for even finer control but that comes at the price of needing to mess with 2 timebases and giving up what is most dearest to me on an oscilloscope: vertical space.

--- End quote ---
Here is where you are not fully conversant with Siglent DSO development, much different to how Zoom mode and memory management was implemented in the past.

Now when your fingers are on the timebase encoder Zoom mode is engaged with just a press, < not new, but toggling between windows in Zoom mode is just another press of the timebase encoder and in those models that offer memory management the main timbase can be zoomed out an order of magnitude more than most DSO's available.....while in Stop mode.

12bit SDS2000X HD, 8bit SDS5000X and all higher BW models have this capability which can negate the need for Zoom mode yet in Zoom mode the trigger point is always visible so to have a reference point when panning through a capture.

awakephd:

--- Quote from: OLderDan on June 01, 2024, 03:54:35 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on May 31, 2024, 11:11:34 pm ---

...But learning how to trigger on characters emitted by a UART is a useful way of understanding your scope's capabilities. Doubly so when comparing it with a logic or protocol analyser.

--- End quote ---

First I want to thank OP for starting such an interesting thread, but, I get here and the story just stops?

--- End quote ---

Dan, as the OP, I am sorry that I haven't posted the past couple of days - I've been out of town and away from the scope, so haven't been able to follow up. The story will continue ... unfortunately with frequent interruptions occasioned by my real job getting in the way of my hobbies. :(

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