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| Admittance Measurements with DSO & AWG with Bode Function |
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| nctnico:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 30, 2022, 08:49:20 am --- --- Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 30, 2022, 08:12:05 am ---i only know programmed rigol through visa and usb port, automation is possible. because thats only what i have. other brand you need to make yourself. i recently purchased owon scope meter, i saw some api doc but i dont have time for it. --- End quote --- Difference is that you pulled raw data and did all math yourself. TopQuark is talking about fact that those Siglent scopes have magnitude/phase measurement (Bode plot) built in, and he would like to automate that and get that data.. --- End quote --- How is that any different than using magnitude and phase measurement functions? Since you'll only need these measurements for a single or limited number of frequencies, that route will be much quicker. I don't see the need for using bode plot at all. |
| TopQuark:
--- Quote from: mawyatt on November 01, 2022, 03:27:19 pm ---While on this subject, does anyone know/measured the actual time to complete the Bode Plot for the SDS2000X+, vs HD, SDS6000? Obviously need the same Bode parameters for each to compare times. One would "think" the SDS2000HD and SDS6000 should be faster with the higher performance FPGA and such. Best, --- End quote --- Haven't timed it myself, but I am pretty sure the HD is just as slow as the non HD. I think the time required is dominated by the sampling time at lower frequencies, and the multiple samples per frequency points that the scope takes when sweeping the frequency range. --- Quote from: nctnico on November 01, 2022, 03:40:02 pm --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 30, 2022, 08:49:20 am --- --- Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 30, 2022, 08:12:05 am ---i only know programmed rigol through visa and usb port, automation is possible. because thats only what i have. other brand you need to make yourself. i recently purchased owon scope meter, i saw some api doc but i dont have time for it. --- End quote --- Difference is that you pulled raw data and did all math yourself. TopQuark is talking about fact that those Siglent scopes have magnitude/phase measurement (Bode plot) built in, and he would like to automate that and get that data.. --- End quote --- How is that any different than using magnitude and phase measurement functions? Since you'll only need these measurements for a single or limited number of frequencies, that route will be much quicker. I don't see the need for using bode plot at all. --- End quote --- I have thought of rolling my own bode plot program that controls the instruments through SCPI, and reading the amplitude and phase measurements with the scope built-in math functions. Main problem with using the scope's amplitude and phase readout is, the math functions are not frequency selective, so in noisy measurements (e.g. measure loop response of a fast switching smps), the measurement might be inaccurate. |
| mawyatt:
--- Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 30, 2022, 07:50:35 am ---... btw those bk precision's test fixtures posted by mawyatt are eye watering, now i got idea for 3d printed project... --- End quote --- The B&K is a nice fixture and comes with various fixtures for Axial and Radial leaded components. We made some BNC to Bananna cables to use with Bode Capability or with the Tek 577 Curve Tracer as shown, works very well. These cables also allow the SMD Fixture to be used with both measurement methods. Inexpensive and very functional fixture the B&K TL89F1 :-+ Anyway, hope this helps!! Best, Edit: Lined thur incorrect information above, Bode function just uses standard BNC cables, custom cables not required. |
| mawyatt:
--- Quote from: TopQuark on November 01, 2022, 03:50:56 pm --- --- Quote from: mawyatt on November 01, 2022, 03:27:19 pm ---While on this subject, does anyone know/measured the actual time to complete the Bode Plot for the SDS2000X+, vs HD, SDS6000? Obviously need the same Bode parameters for each to compare times. One would "think" the SDS2000HD and SDS6000 should be faster with the higher performance FPGA and such. Best, --- End quote --- Haven't timed it myself, but I am pretty sure the HD is just as slow as the non HD. I think the time required is dominated by the sampling time at lower frequencies, and the multiple samples per frequency points that the scope takes when sweeping the frequency range. --- Quote ---Was thinking more in the range of say 1KHz to 1MHz where acquiring the samples shouldn't take too long. --- End quote --- I have thought of rolling my own bode plot program that controls the instruments through SCPI, and reading the amplitude and phase measurements with the scope built-in math functions. Main problem with using the scope's amplitude and phase readout is, the math functions are not frequency selective, so in noisy measurements (e.g. measure loop response of a fast switching smps), the measurement might be inaccurate. --- End quote --- The Siglent Bode Function appears to utilize some form of frequency selective sampling, maybe a derivative of Synchronous Sampling. Say this because of the ability to effectively utilize such high DR in the presence of noise and interference, where conventional sampling just wouldn't cut it!! This observation is with actual "use" rather than the "speculation" as some other anti-Siglent types often respond. Recall rf-loop having shown some remarkable plots utilizing a high DR step attenuator. Duplicating this kind of performance may be much more difficult than just using the simple amplitude and phase captured and read by SCPI to remotely display a plot, as some serious DSP is apparently going on behind the scene!! Edit: Now if they allowed the DSP post processed data accessible by remote means, then one might have "the cake and eat it too" ;D Best, |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: TopQuark on November 01, 2022, 03:50:56 pm --- --- Quote from: nctnico on November 01, 2022, 03:40:02 pm --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 30, 2022, 08:49:20 am --- --- Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 30, 2022, 08:12:05 am ---i only know programmed rigol through visa and usb port, automation is possible. because thats only what i have. other brand you need to make yourself. i recently purchased owon scope meter, i saw some api doc but i dont have time for it. --- End quote --- Difference is that you pulled raw data and did all math yourself. TopQuark is talking about fact that those Siglent scopes have magnitude/phase measurement (Bode plot) built in, and he would like to automate that and get that data.. --- End quote --- How is that any different than using magnitude and phase measurement functions? Since you'll only need these measurements for a single or limited number of frequencies, that route will be much quicker. I don't see the need for using bode plot at all. --- End quote --- I have thought of rolling my own bode plot program that controls the instruments through SCPI, and reading the amplitude and phase measurements with the scope built-in math functions. Main problem with using the scope's amplitude and phase readout is, the math functions are not frequency selective, so in noisy measurements (e.g. measure loop response of a fast switching smps), the measurement might be inaccurate. --- End quote --- For bode plotting yes (even though waveform averaging could help improve things). For measuring components with a known (and controlled) sine wave source you should be able to get rid of noise using high-res and/or averaging modes. With software at the PC side, you could even average several readings and still have a reasonably quick update rate. The higher end LCR meters typically have a selectable update speed and also allow extra averaging for further noise reduction. |
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