Author Topic: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz  (Read 86345 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9180
  • Country: gb
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2013, 06:36:29 pm »
RFasic,

I repaired six R3132's. All had been in continuous service in a clean room environment. On five units the failures appeared in the self test (Shift 0) mode. The sixth unit would not complete its boot sequence and crashed.

Sadly I am not going to be much help to you. None of my faults mirror yours as I had problems with failed MMIC's in the 2nd LO, 2nd LO age related drift and a corrupted CF flash firmware card.

From memory the two units that I own do not exhibit the frequency error that you have described but I will need to check on that for you. I do not remember the modifications in the IF either. I will check my pictures archive.

I do not have any passwords for these units.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful.

 

Offline RFasic

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2013, 09:31:05 pm »
Aurora,

Thank you to try to give me the begining of a help.

I will try to obtain some more information through choosen people from R&S company.
If I can get something usefull (password, SM) for all the Advantest R31xx users, I will transmit it on this topic.

In all the cases, I will give (when it will be done!) all the procedure that I have applied to get my unit repaired (one day, for sure !).
 

Offline rdpowers

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2014, 05:58:52 am »
Hope posting to an old thread is appropriate, but I've just picked up an R3131 and am looking to repair it. I doubt I'd have the confidence if not for the few success stories, so if nothing else, thanks heaps for posting and you're all already top blokes or gals in my book.

My self-test failure is the PLL Lock Detector and if anyone has *any* information about that particular sub-system, I'd be most grateful to hear about it. The maintenance manual is interesting in that it says "Check PLL output voltage of RF unit" without mentioning what value that should be and then the proscribed fix is, predictably, just to replace the whole RF module. I'm hoping to be a little more surgical than that : )

Thanks!
 

Offline marshallh

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1462
  • Country: us
    • retroactive
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2014, 11:51:20 pm »
After several months of storage I've set up the R3131A and run the self tests after warming up. PASS!

CAL 0 fails on IF STEP AMP/TOTAL GAIN...
The only thing I haven't replaced yet are the  AD7524's. I will replace those, deoxit the pots and turn them forward/back to original configuration.
Verilog tips
BGA soldering intro

11:37 <@ktemkin> c4757p: marshall has transcended communications media
11:37 <@ktemkin> He speaks protocols directly.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 18943
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2014, 12:38:17 am »
Did you use deoxit before? If not, then don't. Contact sprays contain acid which eats away metals so basically wrecking whatever equipment it touches. Over the years I've seen a lot of fine equipment becoming FUBAR due to contact spray.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9180
  • Country: gb
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2014, 12:46:10 am »
IPA for safe switch and relay contact cleaning
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2014, 02:21:05 am »
Did you use deoxit before? If not, then don't. Contact sprays contain acid which eats away metals so basically wrecking whatever equipment it touches. Over the years I've seen a lot of fine equipment becoming FUBAR due to contact spray.

DeoxIT is not just contact spray and does not corrode metals. The pdf attached was conducted by a major US auto manufacturer. Don't lump DeoxIT in with generic contact cleaners.

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 18943
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2014, 10:15:29 am »
If is dissolves corrosion it contains some kind of acid. You don't want acid in equipment. If a contact or potmeter is worn out it needs replacing.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2014, 02:01:41 pm »
Nice idea until you are working with unobtainium parts.  ;)

Offline sgpee

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 24
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2014, 09:16:57 am »
I have been donated a R3132 but it fails to pass self test with the error 830. Broken Freq-Corr data.

DO you guys have any idea how to fix this?

 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14739
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2014, 10:55:22 am »
So I understand a lot of the RF structures they've got there...

And then there's this one...



What is that hunk of PCB screwed down?  Did they really make a rotatable dielectric coupler just for this?  They simply couldn't get it good enough without that adjustability?  :-DD

And actually, that's an oscillator by the looks of it; the main (345MHz was it?) VCO??

Any idea if there's metal on the facing side of that adjustable piece?

Reminds me of adjustable wavelines (usually for measuring wavelengths by nulling), or just a good old trombone... ;D

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 18943
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2014, 11:18:58 am »
I have been donated a R3132 but it fails to pass self test with the error 830. Broken Freq-Corr data.

DO you guys have any idea how to fix this?
Lucky you! I'd like an R3132 as well even if it needs some TLC. In the R3131 some ADC/DAC and analogue switches can break. Perhaps yours suffers from the same problem. Or it may be you just need to connect the calibrator output to the input and do a self calibration.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9180
  • Country: gb
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2014, 09:20:10 pm »
The 3132 PCB image is of the (IIRC) approx 6GHz 2nd Mixer VCO. It uses a variable dielectric 'pad' to centre the VCO mid range point. The Varicap diodes pull it + and - from the set point. The centre point setting drifts over the years possibly due to component aging or dielectric characteristics changes. eventually the drift exceeds the compensation range available to the VCO controller and the unit fails self test. I cannot say I like the agricultural looking design of the VCO, but it does seem to work OK. The movable dielectric 'pad' does not have any metal content and is plain dielectric material.

I do not think the VCO is the cause of the error in the latest 3132 question. The firmware sits in the 16MB Sandisk Compact Flash card, Calibration data is stored in EEPROM on the modules. I have not investigated such so cannot provide further comment.  The design enables replacement of individual RF, IF and Synth modules without needing to re-calibrate the analyzer. Each new module comes pre-calibrated and ready to mate with the original modules in the unit. Modules are swappable between different 3132's without affecting calibration. On boot, the analyzer self calibrates the RF, and IF chain using stored calibration data and BITE tests. Its a pretty clever little unit really. One unit I had for repair would not boot and that was corruption of a file in the CF card. Corruption of calibration data on a module seems likely in this latest case. I have no easy fix for corrupted calibration data. Sorry. The Lithium battery on the motherboard is not system critical and only preserved stored image data and the RTC

Aurora
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 09:54:59 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline sgpee

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 24
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2014, 01:05:32 pm »
I have been donated a R3132 but it fails to pass self test with the error 830. Broken Freq-Corr data.

DO you guys have any idea how to fix this?


I was able to clear this error. All I had to do is to disconnect the LCD from the system and let it be without power a few hours. When I put back the system together, all was good. I was able to pass every test. However, when I try to measure I cannot get it to work.

I try to use CAL output to input and try to see the signal and I cannot observe anything. I try to see my wifi etc and same story. Either the RF front end is toast or something else is going on. What should I do next?

 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9180
  • Country: gb
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2014, 01:18:56 pm »
A spectrum analyser is just a sophisticated superhet receiver with all the usual components in the RF chain.... Mixers, Local oscillators, amplifiers, filters and detectors. Fault diagnosis follows the same routine as a receiver. Start with checking all power supply rails and then follow with the 'half split' methodology to determine which stage is not operating correctly. Then determine if the stage is faulty or is lacking a required input.

The user manual for the 3132 contains some useful information on how the unit works and parts of the circuits. Use the block diagram as a guide to using the 'half split' method.

Sadly working on spectrum analysers often requires some quite expensive test equipment and even another spectrum analyser for signal analysis.

This is one of the reasons why broken ones sell relatively cheaply.

Edit. If unsure about half split methodology, Google has plenty on the technique. Example here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=sGbwj4J76tEC&pg=PA362&lpg=PA362&dq=half+split+method+on+superheterodyne&source=bl&ots=U0dr7fI1lG&sig=efhuZIRgg2fwOeuI9oBTMOcfHKE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=646NVPrsBYn4UomxgKAB&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=half%20split%20method%20on%20superheterodyne&f=false

http://www.radioremembered.org/superhet.htm

http://www.wb6nvh.com/GE/Trouble.pdf

http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/rf-technology-design/superheterodyne-radio-receiver/double-superheterodyne-receiver.php

Aurora
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 01:31:00 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 18943
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2014, 11:11:56 pm »
What can work is to follow the signal path. From the input mixer you should have a signal which is within range of a decent oscilloscope. From there you can see if all the mixer and detector stages work. You'd probably have to figure out which is what from a block diagram.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9180
  • Country: gb
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2014, 11:42:31 pm »
OK, to help things along a bit I attach the block diagram that I created when looking at an R3132. I forgot that the user manual did not contain such, I had to do the work myself to get a feel for how teh R3132 was configured and the various L.O and I.F. frequencies.

I can't find the original file for the moment (its somewhere on one of my laptops) I hope the picture is readable.

For info, the important details are:
1st L.O. (YIG Oscillator) range is 4261MHz to 7261MHz
1st I.F. is 4261MHz
2nd L.O. is 3840MHz (this has the dielectric trimmer and is phase locked to 3840MHz)
2nd I.F. is 421Mhz

Note the monitoring ports from couplers in the 1st and 2nd L.O signal paths. Useful for quick checks. The 2nd L.O. monitoring port is a pig to get at as it is on the side of the RF module. I used a fine wire in the SMA socket to create an aerial that I could monitor with another spectrum analyser and EMC probe. It worked a treat as the level on the port is pretty high. The 1st L.O monitoring port is on the rear of the RF module. There are two ports, one for an optional TG and the other for monitoring. Either will do for monitoring the frequency of the YIG Oscillator but you need equipment capable of working at those GHz frequencies. I used an 8GHz SA that I borrowed from work.

Also check that the CAL output is the correct frequency.

Enjoy  :)

Aurora
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 12:05:01 am by Aurora »
 

Offline wokkel

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2015, 08:26:49 pm »
Hello,

I bought a R3131 which failed the Self test due to an empty CPU battery.
I replaced the battery and now it works :D
The spectrum analyzer has option 40, a second 43 DBM Rf input.
The problem is that the spectrum analyzer tells me "Option required" when i want to enable the second input.
Is there any way to re-enable this option in the software of the spectrum analyzer?

Thanks
 

Offline iz5rgo

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2015, 10:04:40 am »
Hi, I have to buy a R3131A impeccably maintained for the sum of 800 € but this has a problem with the tracking generator, was replaced the battery, no longer recognizes the generator, as if it were installed. How could I fix this?
Regards Alessio iz5rgo
 

Offline diarcy

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2015, 05:02:23 pm »
Hello all,

After replacing the Lithium Battery on my R3131 (which lasted 18 years), the RTC is again working, but my Tracking Generator (Option 74) is no longer recognized. This seems to be a common problem when the battery is replaced but I have yet to see a solution.

Does anyone know how to re-enable the Tracking Generator after the battery has been replaced?

The spectrum analyzer works great otherwise! No other problems!

Thanks!
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9180
  • Country: gb
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2015, 05:25:19 pm »
Sadly the volatile RAM, that is maintained by the lithium battery, contains the  option keys.

I know of no way to replace or bypass these as they are unique and locked to the serial number of the SA. To my knowledge, the R3131 has never been subjected to analysis for the purposes of 'hacking' it

Your only chance at the moment is a request to Advantest for help. They may, or may not, be interested in providing such help.

Aurora
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 06:07:37 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline wokkel

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2015, 06:06:08 pm »
If you push Shift and 5 the spectrum analyzer  asks for a password.
Maybe this gives access to some kind of service mode?

( i have the same problem with  the second input which is not working after battery replacement)
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 18943
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2015, 06:12:14 pm »
How many options are there for this spectrum analyser? I also own an R3131
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline marshallh

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1462
  • Country: us
    • retroactive
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2015, 12:06:12 am »
Dump the flash and load in IDA?
Verilog tips
BGA soldering intro

11:37 <@ktemkin> c4757p: marshall has transcended communications media
11:37 <@ktemkin> He speaks protocols directly.
 

Offline diarcy

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
Re: Advantest R3131A Spectrum Analyzer 9KHz-3GHz
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2015, 02:38:13 pm »
Thanks for the insight, Aurora.

This seems like a very poor way to design a product if they did put the option codes in RAM. Surely EEPROMs were available in the 1997-1998 timeframe. I wonder why they would do something like this... I mean, the designer should have known the battery would eventually die at some point.

I've contacted Advantest's service company to see what are my options. The last time the instrument went in for a repair (which also includes calibration) was, I believe, somewhere around $1500, flat fee.

Since my R3131 is functioning just fine, I would hate to pay anything for restoring my instrument to the way it was before the battery died...

I'll keep you all posted on what I find.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf