Agilent 54831D modernising

[toli]

Seems like 2 different fans used. See attached

[bostonman]

Just an FYI,

I received the new fan today (MF60251V2-1000U-A99) and compared the sound to the FBA06A12M1A in my scope.

Keep in mind, I used a 9V battery instead of 12V, so it's running a bit slower. Both fans seemed to have the same level of sound.

The one you suggested seemed slightly quieter, however, maybe someone at Agilent caught on and changed the model to a quieter one or a previous owner replaced it (although it doesn't look it because the wiring looks factory).

In any case, I'm still replacing it. The one you suggested, as mentioned above, seemed slightly quieter, and it's a new fan. Hopefully this means it will last longer than the original.

[bostonman]

Quick update:

I spent the weekend installing the new p/s fan and cleaning the rats nest the previous owner(s) made. Although not necessary, I installed a strip of rubber on the terminal power supply side. I didn't like seeing the wires 'rubbing' against the edge.

Although the covers need to be installed, the whole scope is together and passes calibration.

I began thinking about the fans. Although six are used, it looks like the top and bottom half are separated meaning only three fans handle the bottom and three on the top. This got me thinking about the design using the third wire to detect a fan stall. If only three fans are handling each half, if one fan stops spinning, this means 1/3 of the cooling is lost. I assume this isn't a major loss, but if one fan fails, it means maybe enough dust is filling the area that a second fan will fail; thus losing 66% cooling.

On another note, when I do a self-test, I get a warning about attenuators being near the end-of-life and should be replaced.

Does anyone know where these are located? If they are under the RF shield on the Acquisition Board, well, they can stay there because I'm done messing with that board, but I may buy replacements should they fail in the future and/or the software decides they are too old or broken.

Having said this, how does the software know they are near the end-of-life? In order for the system to know, the attenuators would need to provide some data when it does this test.

[bingo600]

Having said this, how does the software know they are near the end-of-life? In order for the system to know, the attenuators would need to provide some data when it does this test.

I think on my ESG (Func Gen) , i think they "Count & store" number of "relay clicks / attenuator changes" , and know what the relay specs are.
They might have a good deal of life back , just approaching the spec. limit.

/Bingo

Ps: I just read the whole thread .. Enormous amount of time put into this - Well done guyzz 

[bostonman]

This makes sense.

I researched this prior to posting the message and found that the counter can be reset using a 'service switch'. Having the experience with this scope that I have, I wouldn't doubt the Agilent software will lock the scope after the attenuator count reaches a certain number; making it inoperable.

Having said this, I'd like to reset the counter to avoid such a possibility. Does anyone know how to enter this so called menu using a 'service switch'? Also, where are these attenuators and how do I get them to replace them?

On another note, one option in the software is to 'install memory'. I'm uncertain what this means, however, to access the menu, a password is needed. Does the scope use a default password I can try?

Ps: I just read the whole thread .. Enormous amount of time put into this - Well done guyzz

Between this thread and another thread I started, I would never have been able to fix my scope. I've spent nearly a year (off and on) trying to get my scope working. I bought mine knowing channel 2 and 3 didn't work in 50ohm mode, but thought I could use the scope regardless. Come to find out the calibration was off, but Windows aborted the calibration when starting channel 2 thus keeping my scope un-calibrated making the DC level and wave forms to be incorrect.

Soon after the drive crashed, I discovered incorrect installed components, etc... Now I've replaced all the wrong components, the fan upgrade, new hybrids in channel 2 and 3 (I replaced myself), a broken ZIF connector that controlled the Probe Board, etc... and the scope is like brand new.

Again, it's from all the help of these threads that got me to this point. Honestly, at a few times I thought to myself, why not just sell the scope as is because it's unrepairable, but these threads were a huge help.

[bostonman]

One thing I don't understand about this scope is why it can't be upgraded (in his default hardware configuration) with XP.

Maybe this is an incorrect statement, but any Win98 machine was able to be updated to XP without an issue. If I understand from reading, drivers would be an issue, but XP should have all the drivers needed because they'd cover all the old hardware.

The only issue I see, and it's because I'm limited with software, how to get the scope software onto a new OS.

[ARF]

I'm thinking.. Is it possible to add support for modern probes? Someone figured out where the settings for the probes are stored?
For example N2795A is not supported, but why not...

[bostonman]

Without drivers, I don't see how it could be done. Also, if the scope is still in Win98 (which mine is), most likely you won't find any drivers.

I'd still like to find the service disk so I can reset the attenuator count. I fear this will one day bite me as it may cease to function due to telling me the attenuators are over their life expectancy.

I'd also like to find new attentuators so I can replace them.

Unfortunately I never found the original Agilent scope software, so I'm a slave to keeping hard drive image backups.

[free_electron]

launch the scope application with options : scope /service. there are other options too.
as for winxp : the problem is the driver for the pci card. At a certain point they changed to a new pci interface board with a new controller.

[Tony_G]

Unfortunately I never found the original Agilent scope software, so I'm a slave to keeping hard drive image backups.

I'm pretty sure I grabbed a copy of the Recovery software for the 54831D - Take a look at https://1drv.ms/u/s!Amqar8_XQ9Uzj6YhN1xHdM8tQdKMOA?e=25zklm

TonyG

[bostonman]

launch the scope application with options : scope /service.

How? The application just boots on its own and don't believe I've seen anything regarding alternate boot files.

I'm pretty sure I grabbed a copy of the Recovery software for the 54831D

I'm a bit confused. I don't see a"54831D" recovery directory/zip. Am I to download everything on the link you provided or an individual zip?

[coromonadalix]

its windows based,  crtl alt delete and with task manager you kill the scope application

And with task manager you can start the application  with the scope / service

[bostonman]

its windows based,  crtl alt delete and with task manager you kill the scope application

I have shut down the application by this method (actually I use to try shutting down the scope by first doing this rather than just kill it fearing I may corrupt something even though it's designed to be shut down), but then do I need to run a command line to load the service portion? In the past I usually just end up reloading the same scope application.

[Tony_G]

I'm a bit confused. I don't see a"54831D" recovery directory/zip. Am I to download everything on the link you provided or an individual zip?

It's a direct copy of what was on the FTP site so the file structure is how they had it. Check out the pdf "InfiniiumUpgradeRecovery" located in "...\54845A\54845A\548xx\Upg_Rec"

For models 54830B, 54830D, 54831B, 54831D, 54832B, 54832D, 54833A, 54833D
These models were originally released with the Windows 98 operating system. Newer units and
upgraded older units run Windows XP. Your scope’s operating system will determine which upgrade
or recovery CDs are appropriate for it.

That doc should link you to what you need to do and which ISOs other folders etc.

TonyG

[free_electron]

There is no risk of corruption. The scope launches a ramdrive at startup and runs completely out of that. it doesn't write to the drive.

Ctrl-alt-del , kill the scope applicaton , open a command prompt and type "scope /service <enter>"
If you now go in the calibration menu there are additional options. one of them is to reset the relay counters.

[free_electron]

How? The application just boots on its own and don't believe I've seen anything regarding alternate boot files.

the scope boot process is actually a loader program that reads the hardware configuration of the machine , sets up some things and then calls hpldr which is the real scope program

scope.exe has a number of option flags /service enables the service menu

factory
service
servicecal
defaultsetup
internal
testflash
hwdebug
debugknobs

[bostonman]

factory
service
servicecal
defaultsetup
internal
testflash
hwdebug
debugknobs

Are these different options to type after tying 'scope' as in 'scope /servicecal', 'scope /testflash', or are these additional menu options after typing 'scope /service'?

Earlier I tried the steps listed above, and, unfortunately just typing 'scope /service' at the command prompt didn't work. I thought maybe I needed to be in the Agilent directory, so I got the location of the scope software (c:\scope\bin), but, what I found is 'scope' wasn't listed in the C drive when I did a directory listing ('dir').

Regardless, I typed cd\scope and it went into the sub-directory, and, ironically, it didn't show any directories except for . and .. (i.e. no \bin directory).

Assuming maybe it was "hidden", I typed 'bin' and it couldn't find it. I tried shutting down other applications running, and then it allowed me to enter the sub-directory 'bin' even though it wasn't listed when I did a 'dir'.

At this point I tried scope /service, and it still didn't work. Giving up, I shut down, but then figured I'd try one more time. This time I shut down just the scope program and managed to get into c:\scope\bin without a problem (a bit odd, but I didn't question it).

This time I realized maybe it's not called 'scope.exe', so I tried the actual program in the shortcut listed (AG5483Ldr.exe), and typed that (I included the .exe just as a precaution) followed by /service.

It booted the software and sure enough, in the self test menu was the attenuator count. I set it to '0', however, didn't have enough time to run throuhg a self test to confirm it's fixed.

I may try a full calibration and self test again even though I get worried if I run the calibration, it may fail and erase the old calibration. During messing around with the menus, I went into calibration and accidentally started the calibration procedure, but aborted. I don't know if this gets stored in memory and can corrupt the calibration channels data.

Anyone who wants to reset the atten. count, it looks like the steps are CTRL-ALT-DEL, shut down the scope software, open a command prompt window, go to c:\scope\bin\, type 'AG5483Ldr.exe / service', and then look for the reset atten option in self test menu.

As for the attenuators themselves, has anyone replaced these? I never found anything about a part number, so I am uncertain if they need to be replaced. If it's something that's checked in self test, seems like maybe they can get worn over time thus eventually failing.

[bostonman]

I ran a self test last night and the attentuator passed.

This entire time I've been searching for a 'service' disk per information I read online and never knew it existed on the existing software.

I'd still like to find replacement ones should I ever need or decide to change them, however, knowing it no longer gives the warning is good because, as I mentioned, I feared the scope may eventually lock itself because it assumes the attenuators are too old to continue functioning correctly.

[ARF]

Hello guys!

I would like to update my 54830B to 54833A by changing the resistor.
Has anyone made a complete description table for the resistors?

[bostonman]

I'm a bit confused.

My scope is an 54831M (I believe research showed this means 'military'), and the prefix in the S/N is SG; also the scope runs Win98.

Long story short, the hard drive is a 120GB SSD (I didn't have a smaller one at the time) with an IDE adapter. Currently the scope works fine except I'm a slave to keeping a backup copy of the hard drive (technically a zip someone sent, but would need to install a bunch of other stuff - so I prefer making an image copy of the existing drive).

My goal is to use a smaller hard drive (I think the whole scope uses a few gigabytes or hard drive space - I recently purchased a 32GB - which I was shocked existed). To do this, I planned to create an image from the 120GB with only the "used" space, and then burn that image to the 32GB.

The image I used to make this working drive was sent by someone on here (big appreciation for it too), but, I'd like the ability to install the original (i.e. raw) stuff from the FTP (which someone else also uploaded earlier in this thread - another big appreciation for that).

Going through the FTP stuff (and the PDF instructions), it looks like different installation directories are used for different scope models that differ by serial number prefix and/or letter after the model ('M' in my case).

The confusing part is that I've read various PDFs from Agilent and can't figure out if I can update to XP. One article stated that an upgrade kit needs to be purchased which has XP on a hard drive within the kit, and a normal XP disk won't work if installed.

I also read another EEVblog thread that mentioned transferring drivers from Win98 to XP in order to upgrade, but, I'd assume XP should have all the necessary drivers (i.e motherboard, cards, etc..).

My first question is whether anyone has upgraded to XP by simply installing XP and maybe the FTP files that may have the actual scope software on it?

If it's too involved, I think Win98 is good enough. Currently it runs Win98, I have a PDF creator, and a USB driver, all which allows me to "print" a scope screen and save it to a thumb drive. Also, it runs my wireless keyboard/mouse. So technically, why complain since I have all the necessary functions, however, as mentioned, I'd like to have a nice raw installation without using an image from the hard drive of another person.

As for installing Win98 from the FTP stuff sent in a previous message within this thread, it looks like I need to figure out which one works for my model; or I can just use my existing image.

I do fear that the hard drive may crash, so I plan to make multiple images, but much rather install from a raw Agilent original and especially try upgrading to XP.

Currently I have one zip file (the working one) that is about 8GB, and three or four more zips (one being the FTP sent earlier in this thread). Needless to say, I'm currently occupying a fair amount of hard drive space on my PC just as a precaution; hence why I'd like one simple couple gigabytes of a working image.

[coromonadalix]

Sometimes an w98 to xp "UPGRADE"  can work, because xp will take over w98 and use the same drivers or beter ones if it have them,   but there is no garanties that xp will have everything in it to make it work first time, or be able to run the W98 drivers, or use the compatibility mode ??

IF agilent doesnt provide any xp based software for the equipment, you do it at your own risks

Thats why  you should clone the drive and try to work with the clone, not the original ......

[bostonman]

Thats why  you should clone the drive and try to work with the clone, not the original ......

Unless the FTP files contain the correct full working Win98, I'm not working with an original since the existing was uploaded by another user.

As for installing XP over Win98, it's been a while, but does XP wipe out the drive? If I understood your statement correctly, you mean install Win98, get the scope working, take an XP disk, and install over everything?

[coromonadalix]

Xp  could do an in place upgrade  in the old days  loll

EXAMPLE:
https://www.pearsonitcertification.com/articles/article.aspx?p=381919&seqNum=2


You had the upgrade path  and a full installation

[bostonman]

Wow, it's been so long since I've installed an OS; and over an existing.

This gives me another path to try. Until recently (prior to receiving the FTP), I planned to backup the existing working drive into a smaller size (by only copying used sectors), then I thought a fresh install from the FTP, then XP, now maybe I'll try a fresh install by way of the FTP stuff and then try upgrading to XP.

I'll be happy if this works as I like my scope works as is with Win98, but having XP would be nicer.

[free_electron]

it doesn't matter waht OS the scope is running, as you don't interact with it. You only work with the scope application.
The only reason to update the OS would be to be able to run later versions of the scope application but your hardware needs to support that.

You need to treat these machines as a black box. A scope is a scope, not a general purpose computer. You wouldn't rip your old analog scope apart to tinker in its guts. Neither should you on these machines. The number of side effects is unpredictable.

the M version is military. The only difference is that they came out of Singapore and not malaysia. USmilitary will not buy from malaysia , so they shipped the parts over the border, finished assembly in singapore and all is well for the paperwork.