Agilent 54831D modernising

[thehsm]

I found a way to test how the larger resolution screen would look in the 54832D without opening or removing the Video Card.

This allows me to use both the Internal Chips and Technologies Video Card and an external monitor displaying the scope app.

I am thinking of just using an external monitor with touchscreen on top of the Scope. Not the one in my picture, but one without a Stand.

To do this, you need to modify agscope.exe application from the BIN folder using a hex editor. Open the file in the hex editor and search for "65550", without the quotes. Change any of the numbers to something like 55550 and save the file. I saved my file as agScopeXGA.exe.

Then on the Display Properties of Windows, make the external monitor the primary monitor.

Now run the new app and the scope App will run on the external monitor at 1024x768 while the scope screen still works as a secondary screen.

The reason that this works is because the Video Card name is Hard Coded in the scope code:

  memset(&DisplayDevice, 0, 424u);
  DevIndex = 0;
  DisplayDevice.cb = 0x1A8;

  if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, 0, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
    return 0;

  while ( stricmp("CHIPS AND TECHNOLOGIES (ASILIANT) 65550", DisplayDevice.DeviceString) )// Chk if C&T Chip
  {
    if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, ++DevIndex, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
      return 0;
  }
  return 1;                                     // Found C&T

Enjoy!

[toli]

Thanks for the suggestion thehsm. I tried that, and I can confirm it works.
I have the original HW installed and I notice everything is slower this way, including loading the program.
I am using it with the original HW, so this is probably significantly less of an issue if using with modified Pentium4 HW that is much faster. Still, I wanted to quantify this so I did the following:
 
With 1CH active at 131kpts/4GSPS no sinx/x with 100ns/div time base  and and input signal of 1MHz used for the trigger on CH1 I see the following frequency on the trigger output:
No external monitor using original agscope.exe: 2.56KHz
External monitor enabled at 1024x768 and set as primary using modified agscope.exe: 21Hz
For my use I will probably stick to the default option, except perhaps for some "special" cases where I would like to capture nicer images. But for general use the default is significantly more responsive.

Can you give it a try on your HW and see what the difference is?

Edit:
Attaching screenshots captured over the web interface of the scope at 640x480 and 1024x768 just for some visual comparison. I think it makes sense to have the second agscopeXXX.exe available for capturing a nicer image when you need it.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
Now run the new app and the scope App will run on the external monitor at 1024x768 while the scope screen still works as a secondary screen.

The reason that this works is because the Video Card name is Hard Coded in the scope code:

  memset(&DisplayDevice, 0, 424u);
  DevIndex = 0;
  DisplayDevice.cb = 0x1A8;

  if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, 0, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
    return 0;

  while ( stricmp("CHIPS AND TECHNOLOGIES (ASILIANT) 65550", DisplayDevice.DeviceString) )// Chk if C&T Chip
  {
    if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, ++DevIndex, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
      return 0;
  }
  return 1;                                     // Found C&T

Enjoy!

Very good! 

If the above test is now completely bypassed, is there any reason why an entirely different video card -  a more modern and much faster one -  couldn't be used?

[d123j]

Here is an update on the progress. I successfully fitted the new AA084XA03 8.4 inch XVGA display unit and it sits nicely
since the size is a little smaller than the original one. Two original posts were reused and two new ones added.
Since it is also a Mitsubishi unit the backlight did not require any modification.
I had to use VGA connection though as I could not make HDMI to work with the new display controller. I fitted the display controller on the top of the
SSD. Used three posts and threaded holes in the aluminum plate that holds it. The cable between a controller should have been connected
to the VGA connector at the back of the motherboard, something I did not like. So I looked around for a graphic card option that
would have an internal connector. It turns out there is a significant number of the low profile graphic cards where VGA is connected to the card
with a cable. I unscrewed that VGA connector and made it internal to the unit, so no external video cable anymore! The word of caution
here. The card must be low power one, this is one of those cases where lower performance gives better results. I used HIS HD 5450 (ebay, $15 shipped).
I also tried Geforce GT650, which I had, but that one used too much power to work reliably.
I also fitted an additional 12V 5A power supply to the back wall since I suspected a lot of stability issues people saw earlier were caused by
the original power supply not being able to handle the increased power consumption.
I used it to power a display and a CPU 4 pin connector. A relay connected to the original 12V powers it up.
Eventually, I also upgraded CD ROM, I believe any slim drive will do there. Mine required some special power cable so I needed to get one as well.
I also upgraded the panel backlight to the LED. I ordered a cheap kit ($5) out of curiosity and it turned out to be very easy mod as the LED fitted nicely inside
the grove of the original CCFL metal holder. There is some long video on yourtube on how to fit the LED backlight to the particular panel I used.
They overcomplicated things, removed PCBs from the panel, etc... nothing of that sort was needed.
Last mod I am planning is to put a combined USB extender/SD card reader in the floppy bay.
I also want to mention that the oscilloscope application can be run via a remote desktop. You have to exit agscope, connect to the device, and restart abscope.
For me it is a better option than a secondary monitor as I already have a PC monitor at my work bench.
I can nicely see all the traces while the oscilloscope sits on the top shelf without straining my neck too much.
I had some problems making agscope to start on power up with Win10 , placing a shortcut in the startup folder did not do it for me. The solution was to add autologin  and to create a task with a trigger on logon. I also reduced the level of notification to avoid windows warnings when trying to run application in the admin mode.
It was a fun project. I see now that agscope application cannot show the model number of my unit, I wonder what goes on there. The developers should have reserved Frankenstein model for those cases

[SilverSolder]

Awesome project, I love the remote desktop idea!

Can the scope be fully controlled from there, or does the scope need the physical knobs turning?

[d123j]

I think the scope can be fully controlled from the remote desktop. You can do pretty much everything what mouse and keyboard allow you on the build in screen. Buttons/knobs can be more convenient in most cases but they are within my reach anyway. Also update rates are pretty good.

[Howardlong]

I'd imagine that your scope now comes up as an MSO8064 or MSO8104.

Presumably you hacked the chassis-embedded IO shield out for your new mobo? That was the step I stopped at!

The nice thing about avoiding the C&T is that as well as the higher resolution display, the waveforms have intensity grading that is missing from the C&T display. A more modern CPU & iGPU affords far better update rates too.

As well as a 54831/54832, I have a real MSO8104 here too, and practically speaking the only real difference to the later 54832 models is the display/touch screen, mobo specs and front panel USB. I wouldn't be surprised if the acquisition boards are the same.

[d123j]

I wasn't joking, the scope doesn't seem to know what it is. I did remove the resistor that supposedly makes it into 1GHz model. Need to dig out my signal generator to prove or deny it. The case is made from aluminium, not silumin, thus it is very soft and easy to work with. After some trials and errors I figured that Dremel and a set of files is all you need, (+ ruler, caliper and a pencil of course). It took me about 30 min to do the actual cut and definitely looked scarier that it turned out. I used another ATX case as a reference. It would be a good idea to practice on some other aluminum piece to know what you sing up for. The back plate must be away from any PCBs when you do the cut if you do not want to chase any potential issues caused by highly conductive metal dust.
I think later models MSO8000 use the same or very close acquisition HW since they use the same agscope application.

[Howardlong]

By the way, you're not missing much regarding the touch screen: I never use it: the implementation is as bad as you'd expect bearing in mind the vintage.

Instead I have a slide out wireless keyboard & mouse tray under the bench, although it's rare the keyboard ever gets used, so I just fumble for the mouse with the slide shelf slid in almost all the time: works pretty well. (I use the same for an MSOX3104T on an adjacent bench with a slide out keyboard drawer, it works well).

(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).

[d123j]

I am not missing touch screen at all. I am one of those people who hate seeing fingerprints on the screen. Not having one helps a lot with that aspect.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).

(Attachment Link)

Rotate in Microsoft Paint before posting...  The forum cannot rotate images.

There's a full list of BBCode commands here:  https://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

[Howardlong]

[...]
(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).

(Attachment Link)

Rotate in Microsoft Paint before posting...  The forum cannot rotate images.

There's a full list of BBCode commands here:  https://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

Hmm, thought I'd tried that. Oh well!

[Berni]

[...]
(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).
(Attachment Link)

Rotate in Microsoft Paint before posting...  The forum cannot rotate images.

There's a full list of BBCode commands here:  https://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

Hmm, thought I'd tried that. Oh well!

The JPEG standard got a new feature shoved in at some point that allows phones to easily rotate a picture by appending some metadata. So instead of rotating the image by 90, they just mark it as rotated by 90. So when the picture is loaded again it gets rotated in the process. Quite a lot of software does not support this feature so they ignore the metadata and load the image non rotated. And so some programs see the image rotated correctly, some see it rotated wrong.

[thehsm]

Hello Toli,

I measured the trigger output in my setup and they look the same on my scope using the C&T and the Motherboard Video. I used another scope to look at the trigger signals and it is a 2uS pulse every 5Khz to 10Khz. Not sure a frequency counter would pick that up accurately. To me it feels like it has the same response time when I use the larger screen. One thing I did was to increase the AGP video bus frequency to 300MHz in the BIOS.

On another note, a few days ago the power supply failed and took some time to figure it out, but finally found the bad capacitor in the primary side on the isolated Standby 5V power supply.  The tricky thing was that the voltage was 5V, but could not provide enough current to drive the 175mA draw of the Standby circuit.

[Jwalling]

On another note, a few days ago the power supply failed and took some time to figure it out, but finally found the bad capacitor in the primary side on the isolated Standby 5V power supply.  The tricky thing was that the voltage was 5V, but could not provide enough current to drive the 175mA draw of the Standby circuit.

I've seen that failure before, under a minimal load the voltage drops to about 3.5V. What was the reference designation of the cap? I believe I still have the supply on a rack somewhere...

[thehsm]

The Cap that Failed was a 47uF 25V on the primary side of the Standby Power Supply. I changed all of the caps anyway.

[ddalma]

The task you have accomplished so far is very impressive. Anyone knows how could I get the full acquisition memory?

[bostonman]

After reading through this thread, I saw the link for: https://www.keysight.com/us/en/lib/software-detail/instrument-firmware-software/infiniium-8000-series-80000-series-5485x-series-and-5483x-series-oscilloscope-software-566904.html

My scope is an Agilent 54831M. From what I understand, this is a 'military' version and has slight differences.

First off all, the link above shows the software works for 5483x but further down, it shows just 5483B/D. My scope has Win98 and the original drive I got upon buying the scope broke. Through someone on the HP forum, I managed to get an image.

Anyway, after reading many threads, I see upgrading to a newer version of Windows, it would require XP, a different motherboard, and some other changes to fit a motherboard.

Since I don't have XP, and assuming it's financially worth spending money on a new motherboard, am I able to perform the upgrade to Win10?

Also, I read certain features are able to be unlocked, but it seems these features are for a board in a B unit.

Having said all this, do any options exist that I can unlock or should unlock for my M model?

Currently I plan to update the PS fan, maybe the fans on the side, and remove the resistor. I'm uncertain if upgrading the motherboard is worth it, but thought to ask.

[toli]

The fans replacement are a must IMO, I've replaced all the fans on the unit (link below this post), and it made a significant difference. The PS fan was by far the loudest, but the rest made a difference too.

The HDD on my unit (WinXP) is ok, but I've replaced it with an SSD (+SATA adapter) and keep the HDD for BU in case its ever needed. I've created an image of the HDD before taking it out, so if you'll ever need it feel free to PM me and I'll upload somewhere and give you a download link. The file is obviously an image of the scope HDD in the state it was in when I've received it (which was used from eBay), but there's not much to it really. Simply update the software to 5.71 from the link you've attached, and use the modified agscope.exe file.

[bostonman]

I admit, I've either not done enough research, or remain a bit confused.

Since my scope is an M, and from my understanding, upgrading beyond Win98 isn't feasible due to the motherboard limitations. But if it's simply updating to 5.71 through Win98 and changing an exe file, then maybe it's worth a try.

On a side note, upon getting my scope, it booted just fine with a mSATA hard drive that the previous owner installed. Suddenly the scope stopped booting and I thought a BIOS setting was the cause. Long story short, the previous owner sent his image to me, I got about three or four images, and none worked until I finally found one that did.

If I can upgrade this scope to XP without changing the motherboard, I think it would be great and would appreciate the image. As for the image being in the state you got it in, it seems like nothing is really wrong with that. I'd just need to re-run calibration, self test, etc...

I'll order and change the ps fan. As for the six, I did a bit or research and finding replacement ones without the third wire (something to do with fan stall) were expensive. The expense isn't necessarily an issue, but I could buy six fans and discover they aren't much quieter. A write up I found on the ps fan replacement stated the guy bought a fan with lower noise, however, it was still loud, so he bought a new one. I fear that I could spend $50 or so on the six fans to discover they didn't make an improvement.

[toli]

I haven't had a Win98 unit so can't say for sure, but I would guess that changing the MB is needed for it to work properly with WinXP due to drivers.
Try using the hacked agscope.exe on you machine, I doubt it only works on WinXP.

As for the fans, I've posted about it on my blog here:
https://tolisdiy.com/2019/10/04/agilent-54831b-oscilloscope-taming/
It might be the write up you found I've mentioned the actual part# for the fans I've used so you can use them for reference there.

Fans with stall sensors aren't too difficult to find actually, but you can always bypass it if you choose to. That's what I did, as I've only noticed the fan stall sensors after I've received the replacements. I would consider the PS fan much more critical for unit operation than the case fans for instance (since there's only one fan there), and this one hasn't got a fan stall sensor at all in the original fan. If one of the case fans ever fails, I doubt it would make a real difference, and it will probably last forever anyway.
The PS fan is by far the worst in terms of noise. However, the 6 case fans are... well... 6 fans Combined they are fairly loud in my opinion, especially since they are right at the edge of the case with no sound proofing on the way to my ears. I've replaced them all, and I'm much happier with the scope now, I can now work with it on for hours right next to me. Previously I couldn't bare it.
You can always go down the middle route, just order 1 fan for the case, and compare the noise it makes to one of the original fans on its own. This should give you some sense of how much difference there would be when replacing them all.

[bostonman]

Your write up is the one I read, and I think it was a great help.

I'm on the fence with getting fans without the stall sensor. I assume this sensor turns off the scope if a fan or fans stops spinning.

I agree, seems silly to worry about a single fan failing when it has five backup fans, but I dislike disabling features.

What is the sound difference between the six you installed versus the original? Looking at the replacement you suggested, DigiKey has quantity ten at $74. Although I agree decreasing sound is a good thing and easier on the ears, seems $74 is high just for fans.

Also, I noticed something odd in your write up. You listed part number 2410SB-04W-B59-B00 as the fan you tried, however, DigiKey shows this part number, but the datasheet lists B50 and B60, but no B59. I thought it was odd that DigiKey actually shows this part number, but it doesn't seem to exist in the datasheet.

Also, do any tricks exist to removing the power supply? I haven't been dealing with the top part of the scope for several months since I've been focused on repairing the Acquisition Board, but remember seeing somewhat of an easier method of removing the power supply than I initially assumed.

[toli]

Your logic is sound, if it supports the fan stall sensor, why not take advantage of this. I've explained in the blog post how and why I did this, but this obviously doesn't mean you should plan for this considering the fact you know it in advance. Learn from my experience and do better The nice thing about these fans is that they are visible from outside the scope, so they especially easy to observe if you choose to.
With that being said, as I've mentioned, I think the single most critical fan here is actually the one in the PS as there's only one fan there and if that one fails you are in big trouble probably. However, this one doesn't use the fan stall sensor. I guess the "fail-safe" here was to make it so loud that it's immediately clear to the user when its not working 

The noise difference is really difficult to quantify, as I didn't measure this with an SPL meter. For me, its well worth the ~50$ these fans cost. Compared with the price of the scope (especially when you consider the cost of shipping such a beast from the US to Israel and the tax I had to pay for importing it), the fans aren't an issue really. Add the cost of the 1165A probes I've ordered to go with it and the fans are even less of an issue.
From my point of view, the scope in its original state wasn't really usable. I couldn't stand it for anything other than the bare minimum time I had to use it. I've ended up using my low speed USB scope for everything it could handle simply because it wasn't as loud. So in my view the 50$ are well worth it, and the difference is "huge".

I don't have that first fan I tried at hand, so I can't check the PN to verify, but if I'm fairly confident that is the correct PN.

As for the PS, you can consult the service manual as to how you are supposed to remove it, or you can go with the "lazy" approach. Once you remove the case fan that's in front of the PS fan, you will have easy enough access to the PS fan with a long screw driver. Just remove the PS fan that way, and reuse its wire harness to connect to your new fan.

BTW, one interesting this I've noticed about the scope. When using HDClone8 for the clone of the drive to the SSD, there's an option to adjust the drive size so that it uses the complete 120GB of the SSD I've used instead of just 20GB as the original HDD. When I've used that option, the probe compensation output no longer worked
So I've reverted back the to the a direct clone of the HDD so that only 20GB of the SSD are used, and everything is back to normal.
Sound like a SW bug, but nothing we can't work around.

[bostonman]

With that being said, as I've mentioned, I think the single most critical fan here is actually the one in the PS as there's only one fan there and if that one fails you are in big trouble probably. However, this one doesn't use the fan stall sensor.

I'm going to guess and say that the power supply has thermal protection and would shut down.

As for fan stall sensor in the six fans, it seems overkill to complement your statement of one fan failing and the system not suffering any issues. I don't know how it works, but I'm guessing the scope shuts down once a fan stops. This could cause a high repair cost for someone unknowingly thinking the scope is broken and send it to a repair place which is another contributor to being overkill. Obviously an average user isn't going to periodically check whether all six fans are spinning, so a stall sensor makes sense, however, I'd implement a failed fan in software as a pop up window warning each time the scope boots.

Your point about the $50 in fan costs to reduce noise is valid. I got this scope for pennies because ch2 and ch3 were failing in 50ohm mode. Thinking that was the only problem, I bought it assuming I'd either never use 50ohms on these two channels, or just use a termination. Come to find out, the calibration was off, and I couldn't calibrate it with two "bad" channels because the software would abort once it began calibrating channel 2 (and assumed it would also abort once it began channel 3).

Long story short, I've replaced the Agilent hybrid chips in both channels (and now all four channels successfully calibrate), but channel 2 had its thermal pad lift slightly. After running thermal tests, it seems all the chips run at approximately the same temperature (this is with the cover removed - they should run cooler with the fans cooling the enclosed case). Knowing what I know about how hot they run, the time I've devoted to fixing this scope, and it being a pretty cool scope, I don't plan to use it for everyday use in fear of overheating those hybrids and/or just wearing out the scope. Due to my projects, it's rare I need a scope for long periods anyway; and rare I need a 500GHz scope (but it's really cool to own).

Having said all this, most likely the noise from the six fans probably won't be too much of an issue for me, however, the ps fan seems to be mentioned often as the main noise contributor and probably worth my time to replace. Ideally I'd like to remove the entire power supply, blow out any dust, and check for blown caps. You're correct, I will consult the service manual - being an "engineer" I never stop to think about reading directions - but I did consult it to remove the BNC front panel cover.

Also, the part number for the fans isn't a mistake on your part. DigiKey shows the part number your provided as the manufacture's part number, but, when I opened the datasheet, it didn't list a B59; just a B50 and B60. My initial assumption would have been you accidentally typed '9' instead of a '0' since they are close, but DigiKey clearly shows a B59 as the part number.

[bostonman]

Today I removed the power supply and fan because I have a replacement on the way.

Upon looking at the part number, I noticed mine is part number: FBA06A12M1A, you list part number: FBA06A12U

Did you make an error, or was two different fans used?

Also, this is a long shot, but does a manual and/or datasheet exist for the power supply? I was completely wrong, this power supply is much larger than I imagined, and, also, the fan is much larger than I thought.

I expected a tiny fan on a small power supply. I didn't realize the terminal blocks on the side are actually the power supply, and overall, a monster of a supply.

In any case, this power supply is very tight inside, and I must say, looks very well built. I blew it out, however, it was quite clean. I do fear it could fail in the future and may need a replacement, so having the specs would be nice. For the most part, most of the specs are on the supply itself, but having a datasheet/manual is always nice.