Scope recomendations in $15-20K range?

[jayk]

Paul... does R&S offer similarly discounted MXO4s with lower specs (say 1GHz instead of 1.5GHz)?

[jayk]

I've been comparing the SDS3104X HD and the 4104HD.  Screen on the Lecroy is slightly larger, sample rate a bit higher.  I see an optional spectrum analyzer upgrade for the Lecroy.  Much larger memory on the Siglent.  Apparently no web control interface on the Lecroy (just something called MAUI).  2x price difference.

I do some work with frequency synthesizers (think TI LMX or similar) and would like to look at the frequency settling time when the part is reconfigured.  I saw Shahriar do something like this in his Signal Path review of the Tek MSO6 series.  On the SDS3000X can I do a long capture and then look at the spectrum of a short portion as I sweep along the captured waveform? 

[tautech]

I've been comparing the SDS3104X HD and the 4104HD.  Screen on the Lecroy is slightly larger, sample rate a bit higher.  I see an optional spectrum analyzer upgrade for the Lecroy.  Much larger memory on the Siglent.  Apparently no web control interface on the Lecroy (just something called MAUI).  2x price difference.

I do some work with frequency synthesizers (think TI LMX or similar) and would like to look at the frequency settling time when the part is reconfigured.  I saw Shahriar do something like this in his Signal Path review of the Tek MSO6 series.  On the SDS3000X can I do a long capture and then look at the spectrum of a short portion as I sweep along the captured waveform?

Calling @2N3055 to answer this in detail.

[pdenisowski]

Paul... does R&S offer similarly discounted MXO4s with lower specs (say 1GHz instead of 1.5GHz)?

I don't think we have anything like that at this time, but I'll check with our North American oscilloscope product manager - I'm not personally involved with deciding what we include in bundles / promotions.

[Performa01]

On the SDS3000X can I do a long capture and then look at the spectrum of a short portion as I sweep along the captured waveform? 

Yes, using the Analysis Gate function you can pick an arbitrary max. 4 Mpts long portion of the record for FFT analysis.

[surgewave]

Hi, Yeah I fully agree with this thought.   
Also beware of any offers because they easily makes you focus you to the wrong things.
Ask to try scopes before buying. When you make an expensive investment its normal to test drive the product.
Remember that Tek maybe famous but its not the best often.

I would recommend you to check this one:
ROHDE & SCHWARZ MXO4-BNDL
MSO / MDO Oscilloscope, MXO 4 Series, 4 Channel, 1.5 GHz, 5 GSPS, 400 Mpts,
It a real runner!

[surgewave]

I can tell you that the Tek MSO46 has a really slow and laggy user Interface. 6 channels are really nice to have but the UI is almost a dealbraker in my opinion.

Just now the MSO46B was released where Tek claims that speed of the UI has doubled. But i still wouldn't buy it without trying it at first.

Yep. Fully Agree! TEK touch screen scopes are really laggy 
One additional tip: Don't buy TEK for FFT because its FFT not performing.

[David Hess]

Something else I might look for is a screen that does not suffer from excessive glare.  I have seen some DSOs in the past couple of years that would be unusable under adverse conditions.

[KungFuJosh]

Something else I might look for is a screen that does not suffer from excessive glare.  I have seen some DSOs in the past couple of years that would be unusable under adverse conditions.

You can usually place a matte screen protector in those cases. I do that anyway.

[Berni]

Yep i have a matte screen protector made for laptops on my scope and it works well.

[tooki]

Having recently compared (as in test-drive loaner units for a month) scopes at the $10K mark at work, mostly lower-bandwidth versions of what you’re considering: the decision should first and foremost be driven by your needs.

For example, LeCroy has unbeatable analysis tools, and I quite like their UI. But their waveform update rate is far lower than the others, so they suck for identifying glitches in real-time. In contrast, Keysight and R&S excel at this. Tek is a bit weird: they are not bad at real-time glitch capture — but only in a particular acquisition mode that disables most other features. In a sense the Tek models don’t have any obvious strength (other than offering super-low-capacitance passive probes), but they grew on me, in that I just liked using them. I will add that the physical build quality of the Tek models was the very best in the bunch.

I came across a quote somewhere (in a presentation, I think) from a LeCroy manager who said exactly what I concluded: there are two groups of scopes: “analytical” scopes focused on event capture and analysis, and “display” scopes focused on real-time use with high waveform rates. LeCroy is the leader in analytic scopes, Keysight arguably the leader in display scopes, with R&S trying damned hard to dethrone them.

(This isn’t surprising, given that LeCroy began not as a scope company, but as a maker of digitizers for nuclear research, where one captures a ton of data of an event and then analyzes it later.)

In the end, I ended up going for the MXO4, because I already had a high-end LeCroy I can use for analytic purposes, so I chose to go for a “display” scope, and the MXO4 excels at this, with both full-time 12-bit (which is used for the digital trigger, so the trigger sensitivity is superb) and above all an unparalleled waveform update rate and a great spectrum analyzer. It was a really tough call between the MXO4 and the Keysight 4000G, whose user interface is by a wide margin the most responsive of all the scopes I’ve ever used (other than other Keysights that are equally snappy). The Keysight is only 8-bit, has very small acquisition memory, the web interface and display streaming are mediocre, the user interface looks a bit dated, and the display resolution is low by today’s standards, but it’s an absolute joy to use. The Keysight is a mature product and it shows. The MXO4 is really nice in many ways, but it feels a bit unfinished in places. (Including promised or hinted features that still have yet to materialize, like zone triggering and XY mode.) I also hope R&S can hire some experienced software developers from the video editing and game engine development worlds who can help them improve UI responsiveness (which is OK, but not great), because I’m convinced it just needs some optimization.

[Domitronic]

I can tell you that the Tek MSO46 has a really slow and laggy user Interface. 6 channels are really nice to have but the UI is almost a dealbraker in my opinion.

Just now the MSO46B was released where Tek claims that speed of the UI has doubled. But i still wouldn't buy it without trying it at first.

There is now a promo ongoing for MSO Series 4B:

https://go2.tek.com/en-4-series-b-ultimate-bundle-promo-em/

But i guess the 1GHz variant is still way over the 15-20k budget.

[Stewart8]

I am also looking at upgrading my oscilloscope.

I am thinking of buying R&S' MXO4 bundle deal. The MXO4 looks like a great scope and the bundle deal make it almost affordable.

My only concern is reliability.
Are the new R&S scopes reliable? I don't want to pay a lot of money and have the scope fail just outside of its warranty period and not to be able to afford to have it repaired because its list price is so expensive.

I have a Tektronix's TDS 360, which is 26 year old and is still going strong.

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts with regards to R&S and other major brands reliability.

[tooki]

R&S is a company that’s been around a long time and has a very good reputation. The company that R&S bought to add oscilloscopes and the like to their portfolio, Hameg, has an equally good reputation. I have a 30ish year old Hameg in my basement, actually.

The big brand whose longevity I would question is LeCroy. At work, we’ve had three $20k-40k LeCroys fail (out of 4 units of similar generation that I am aware of). The acquisition hardware and host PCs as such are fine, but they used second-rate no-name caps in the power supplies, so they’ve all failed. (LeCroy wanted thousands to replace each PSU, but a few $ of caps is all they need.)

[nctnico]

I second the lack of build quality and poor mechanical engineering on (non-rebranded) Lecroy equipment. I have a Lecroy scope costing around US $30k when new but the overall construction and build quality is just amateurish. The same goes for another piece of Lecroy equipment I used to own.

[points2]

Hi,
just my comment about this subject titled "Scope recomendations in $15-20K range"

1st comment about that kind of stuff : PLEASE be FAIR :
1. metrology is a basic part of your process
2. metrology is not a basic part of your process

I'm a "eternal" "young player" as our dear Dave would say ... and so : asking for advice about a scope (a scope is a basic tool !) in the range of 15-20k range => that's weird !
I see 2 options :
- "15-20k" is the budget : very narrow (weird !)
- the purpose is to do some measurements ? or show off based on the scope screen's displaying ? (weird too...)

bottom line :
anyone that asks about advice with such a budget :
1. he's a jerk : because it has the cash but not the know-how (what to to with it)
2. he is... another kind... and I need to understand... what kind of guy you are 

I'm a "young player", but I manage to go thru the BW / rise time and so on.. because at the end, a scope is a time-domain tool, as simple as that.

Sorry about this rough reply

[shabaz]

Sometimes products can be supplied with a minor fault (e.g. I've had a Keysight product (not a 'scope) arrive with a wonky fan blade hitting the metal chassis, it really was not worth the effort to return, but I'm sure Keysight would have done so if asked. I've had a couple of products from a couple of top brands that initially had different battery back-up issues, again minor.

I've used the MXO 4 for about a year, and not experienced any hardware fault so far, but of course this is just a single datapoint.

Firmware releases for the MXO 4 have occurred approximately every 4 months, with the major releases containing useful new functionality as will as the bug-fixes of course, so that's been a very positive experience so far.

In summary, hardware/construction of it seems good, although I wish it came with a hard cover by default, since nowadays 'scopes have huge screens. It came with a nice, 1cm-thick piece of protection material in the box, which served as a temporary screen cover for a long while!

By the way, when you receive it, initially it might look like the MXO 4 screen is very glossy, but it's actually a thin protective sheet. Took me about a month to notice it was removable!

[tautech]

Hi,
just my comment about this subject titled "Scope recomendations in $15-20K range"

1st comment about that kind of stuff : PLEASE be FAIR :
1. metrology is a basic part of your process
2. metrology is not a basic part of your process

I'm a "eternal" "young player" as our dear Dave would say ... and so : asking for advice about a scope (a scope is a basic tool !) in the range of 15-20k range => that's weird !
I see 2 options :
- "15-20k" is the budget : very narrow (weird !)
- the purpose is to do some measurements ? or show off based on the scope screen's displaying ? (weird too...)

bottom line :
anyone that asks about advice with such a budget :
1. he's a jerk : because it has the cash but not the know-how (what to to with it)
2. he is... another kind... and I need to understand... what kind of guy you are 

I'm a "young player", but I manage to go thru the BW / rise time and so on.. because at the end, a scope is a time-domain tool, as simple as that.

Sorry about this rough reply

Yeah right. 

Please tell where you might go to seek wide advice on such a purchase ?
Here with 1000's of members with all manner of equipment seems a good place to start narrowing down on possible purchase candidates, don't you think ?