All about Keithley DMM7510. Bugs and features, recipes, advice, notes.

[MegaVolt]

Averaging multiple buffers also allows you to separate random processes from deterministic processes. For example, small thermal processes can be detected at the beginning of the measurement.

If there is a pause before filling the buffer (for example, 1 minute), then at the beginning of measurements there is some thermal artifact with a duration of 30 seconds on the 10V and 1000V ranges. It is small and within tolerance.
But if you had a stop of the measurement process (waiting for the trigger), then for the best measurements it makes sense to discard the first 30 seconds of measurements.

[MegaVolt]

Secondary measurement cannot be controlled remotely. 

[kj7e]

Since no one has mentioned this already, it appears Keithley released DMM7510-FRP-V1.7.7 on April 28, 2021.  Loaded on mine, no issues to report.

Here is a handy link I saved as a bookmark to search, filter and sort DMM7510 firmware for updates;
https://www.tek.com/search?keywords=DMM7510&facets=_templatename%3dSoftware%26parsedsoftwaretype%3dFirmware&sort=desc

[HighVoltage]

I have also installed v1.7.7 a few days ago and it works perfectly so far.

[kj7e]

Model DMM7510 Firmware Revision 1.7.10 is out.

[HighVoltage]

Model DMM7510 Firmware Revision 1.7.10 is out.

How funny, in order to upgrade, we have to downgrade:

Snip from the release notes:

When you load the 1.7.10 firmware into your instrument, system messages will display the firmware
version as 1.7.1. This is only a cosmetic issue and does not impact the performance of the unit.
Subsequent firmware upgrades will display a two-digit firmware version number.
To install firmware version 1.7.10 on your instrument, use the Downgrade to older option from the
front panel or use the downgrade remote commands. See "Upgrading the firmware" in your
instrument's Reference Manual for more information.

[MegaVolt]

We also updated the datasheet. They have removed the accuracy values for the 10 megohm mode.

[E-Design]

Model DMM7510 Firmware Revision 1.7.10 is out.

How funny, in order to upgrade, we have to downgrade:

Snip from the release notes:

When you load the 1.7.10 firmware into your instrument, system messages will display the firmware
version as 1.7.1. This is only a cosmetic issue and does not impact the performance of the unit.
Subsequent firmware upgrades will display a two-digit firmware version number.
To install firmware version 1.7.10 on your instrument, use the Downgrade to older option from the
front panel or use the downgrade remote commands. See "Upgrading the firmware" in your
instrument's Reference Manual for more information.

Yeah, its a pretty poor choice of words for upgrading.. the reason downgrade option is recommended is that it will force the upgrade (rewrite firmware) activity regardless of the existing version. It should be thought of as 'Force upgrade" pretty amusing nonetheless..

[MegaVolt]

Tried the new firmware. I did not put the previous one, so the changes on both.

Of the good.

The captions on the charts became very nice. This is very nice! See picture.

From the not so good.

1. I managed to hang the device 3 minutes after firmware update playing with it via the browser )))))
2. Histogram captions are replaced by XXX when they don't fit. It is an old problem, but I have not written about it yet. See the picture.
3. nothing else is fixed

[kj7e]

Model DMM7510 Firmware Revision 1.7.12

https://www.tek.com/en/support/software/firmware/model-dmm7510-firmware-revision-1712-and-release-notes

[HighVoltage]

I have installed Firmware Revision 1.7.12 and both of my DMM7510 run perfect so far.

[MegaVolt]

User manual in russian.

[MegaVolt]

A new specification has been released with a bunch of surprises.

1. Current accuracy has become worse.
2. As a consequence, this affected resistance.
3. Noise levels are increased
4. Other minor changes.

I have collected all the significant differences in pictures.

[MegaVolt]

Continuation

[Kleinstein]

Accuracy specs and especially the long term drift part is difficult to estimate up front. So not such a surprise to see an update on those specs. Also the performance of the shunts may scatter more than expected.  A part may also be due to a change in parts used (e.g. old source no longer available) and may thus only apply to new units.

For the noise specs it is a bit surprising to see corrected higher noise specs. It could be that the noise performance is scattering more than expected. Otherwise the noise should be relatively consistant and easy to test. So the noise performance could be tested individually, at least for some ranges. Maybe they got too many units that did not pass the test or get returned as defective because of too much noise.
I would have more expected a correction downwards, e.g. from improved parts or a slight circuit change to reduce the noise.  I don't know the details of the ADC (only info from pictures and analogy to other meters), but there is a good chances there is weak point that could be improved on.

With so many changes this may even be just a more cauteous new staff, adding more margin or using less optimistic estimates.

[HighVoltage]

Maybe some parts have changed in new production runs and older models still hold the older specs?

[Kleinstein]

For the current ranges there could be a change of parts. The shunts are a bit special and expensive parts, where it could happen that if the original one go EOL that they didnot get a good replacement.
For the noise part there should not be a problem in getting equivalent parts with the same low noise. The OPA140 is still available and even a OPA141 or OPA1641 would not give much different noise performance.  For the resistors there should also be low noise ones available. I doublt that they would change the reference - though possible.

With the noise specs part there may be the point of including reference noise, so not just give the noise with a shorted input, but the noise for a FS input. Most noise specs are for a shorted input, but to be real honest they should also give the reference noise in some way (ideally as seprate noise at FS input for a hypothetical noise free input). Especially with the relatively good LTFLU ref. there is no good reason not to show it.

If the old meter still hold the old specs is a good question.

[E-Design]

We work hard to make sure no specs are affected adversely if at all possible. If specs must change, we strive to at least minimize the impact.  However, we also value making sure they reflect the performance of the instrument accurately.

Some of the causes of spec adjustments:

1) Part changes - inevitable outcome of procurement issues and obsolescence of key components - its a never ending battle.
2) Improved testing and predictive methods.
3) Statistics / much more run time of units in the field.

If you feel some specification is now detrimental to your measurement needs, please describe in detail and I am happy to take the feedback so we can consider it next time.
We can always improve specs, but we need justification for that -- and having customer feedback is a nice way to do that.

There is no reason to believe older instruments in the field do not hold their specs.

Many thanks!

[MegaVolt]

Thank you for staying with us

There is no reason to believe older instruments in the field do not hold their specs.

I don't really understand this phrase.

To evaluate the capabilities of an old device, should I use the old specification? And for new devices, a new specification?
From what date is the device considered new?

P.S. After the new changes, my account was banned and I lost the ability to download new software

[E-Design]

There is no reason to think older instruments do not meet those original specifications. Newer specifications will reflect closer to the newer builds and remain compatible with older instruments. (older specs tighter).
No specs were improved for newer instruments (some are worse as was pointed out). So you should be able to refer to either specification without worry. In general, we instruct everybody to use the latest released specifications. No need to worry about what date is newer vs older etc.. Hope it make sense.

@ Megavolt, I dont think you were "banned" - perhaps your account was disabled due to inactivity? You can surely sign up again if you are looking for newer software.

[MegaVolt]

@ Megavolt, I dont think you were "banned" - perhaps your account was disabled due to inactivity? You can surely sign up again if you are looking for newer software.

I tried...
I can login but can't download.
It gives the link https://www.tek.com/en/software-download-request-error-2

Previously, this meant that I did not fill out all the fields in my profile. Now I do not know