Author Topic: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A  (Read 24984 times)

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Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #150 on: January 29, 2025, 10:37:47 am »
The difference might be the blocking capacitor used (try other values for a different response).

Frequency on open circuit connection - any devices the leads are running close to (LED lights?)  What about the signal generator, is it plugged into a noisy power supply?  I would expect a high impedance input with loose leads connected to the jacks is working like an antenna for noise.  Try using shorter leads and taking the setup somewhere away from other electronics.

A square wave is not the best type of wave for evaluation.  Mathematically, it is the sum of many sinusoids at incremental harmonics.  As the frequency goes higher, the device could potentially respond to harmonics more than the main frequency, because higher frequency = less sensitivity.  The shape of the wave may be getting very distorted with your setup. 

Is it possible for you to generate a sinusoidal wave, which is less likely to distort, ring, or contain harmonics?

What does the AC voltage measure at the different frequencies you are trying?  Is the trend to get lower volts each time you double the frequency?  Where exactly does everything fall apart, and how does that compare to the manual's response?
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Offline wasedadoc

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #151 on: January 29, 2025, 09:32:46 pm »
As the frequency goes higher, the device could potentially respond to harmonics more than the main frequency, because higher frequency = less sensitivity.
That should be more (not less) sensitivity.
 

Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #152 on: January 29, 2025, 09:46:55 pm »
As the frequency goes higher, the device could potentially respond to harmonics more than the main frequency, because higher frequency = less sensitivity.
That should be more (not less) sensitivity.

Whatever dude.  If your are so smart, consider being helpful instead of trolling around this forum looking to find people to correct.  Yes, I reviewed your recent posts and you obviously have something to prove.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2025, 10:17:00 pm by Paul T »
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Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #153 on: January 30, 2025, 01:43:33 am »
yeah i now understand that it has to go to 0v at some point in order for the dmm to read it, but my question for your particular unit if the voltage does not go to 0 at any point what does the dmm show ? all zeroes or some seemingly random value ?

because mine without the 100nf cap it shows a seemingly random freq and a duty cycle of around 50-20% higher than the gm328 is generating

It actually shows 0, but as soon as I touch the test leads with my finger, it settles at 50Hz after a while. This is very sluggish, it stays at 50Hz for a while even after I let go of the test leads.
Do you have any interfering devices at your place?

The difference might be the blocking capacitor used (try other values for a different response).

Frequency on open circuit connection - any devices the leads are running close to (LED lights?)  What about the signal generator, is it plugged into a noisy power supply?  I would expect a high impedance input with loose leads connected to the jacks is working like an antenna for noise.  Try using shorter leads and taking the setup somewhere away from other electronics.

A square wave is not the best type of wave for evaluation.  Mathematically, it is the sum of many sinusoids at incremental harmonics.  As the frequency goes higher, the device could potentially respond to harmonics more than the main frequency, because higher frequency = less sensitivity.  The shape of the wave may be getting very distorted with your setup. 

Is it possible for you to generate a sinusoidal wave, which is less likely to distort, ring, or contain harmonics?

What does the AC voltage measure at the different frequencies you are trying?  Is the trend to get lower volts each time you double the frequency?  Where exactly does everything fall apart, and how does that compare to the manual's response?

so i took special atention at Paul's advice about a possible noisy power supply, and turns out that was the issue, so for example i had the connector and cable just laying on the table next to the DMM as soon as i connected it to mains it would start reading a frequency, and as soon as in unplugged it from mains the dmm was back to zero

so i borrowed a 9v battery from somewhere and powered the gm328 from that and now it could actually read freq and duty cycle correctly on its own !

what i did noticed is that as the pwm frequency went up the duty cycle would read slightly higher, ie at 25khz 50% would be read as 50.7% but at say 10khz it would be read at 50.1%

for some reason at the pwm/square wave outputs on the pcb there were some blind spots in the freq generation for example 800khz wouldnt be read at all, but if i tried instead red probe on zif 3 and black on zif 1 it would read them correctly and even the pwm from k firmware was dead center

however at max on its own it could only read up to 2Mhz anything above it wouldnt, lowest i could get was a little over 1hz, i tried lower than that but it would show it on the dmm from like half a second then go back to nothing

adding the capacitor again it allowed it to read the full 4Mhz

but now another thing that has gotten me concerned is this:

so i had this 1st GM328 unit that came deffective and i have someone online that has been helping me diagnose it telling me what he sees on his and how and what to test

anyway one such test was to put red probe on zif socket 1 and black probe on ground

on old DMM which is a UNI-T UT33A (old non plus version that has hfe measurement) it reads 23.35Mohms
and this new DMM the ZT-225 using the exact same leads reads 5.42Mohms

but meassuring loose resistors both meassure about the same +- 1 or 2 ohms

so idk if i should be concerned or not
 

Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #154 on: January 30, 2025, 02:38:25 am »

on old DMM which is a UNI-T UT33A (old non plus version that has hfe measurement) it reads 23.35Mohms
and this new DMM the ZT-225 using the exact same leads reads 5.42Mohms

but meassuring loose resistors both meassure about the same +- 1 or 2 ohms

so idk if i should be concerned or not

Glad you're getting some resolution! 

As for the two meters measuring the circuit, the two meters might influence the circuit's apparent resistance by their output voltage. 

According to https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMUNI-T%20UT33A%2B%20UK.html the output voltage is 1.0 V (open circuit) and the current (short circuit) 0.31 mA. 

For the ANENG SZ20, I measure 0.53 V and 0.43 mA. 

It usually takes around 0.6V to conduct through a semiconductor junction, so that may explain the difference.

Or, if you mistakenly reversed the + and - terminals between devices.  Polarity doesn't make a difference on resistors, but it does on semiconductors.
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Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #155 on: January 30, 2025, 03:12:33 am »

on old DMM which is a UNI-T UT33A (old non plus version that has hfe measurement) it reads 23.35Mohms
and this new DMM the ZT-225 using the exact same leads reads 5.42Mohms

but meassuring loose resistors both meassure about the same +- 1 or 2 ohms

so idk if i should be concerned or not



Glad you're getting some resolution! 

As for the two meters measuring the circuit, the two meters might influence the circuit's apparent resistance by their output voltage. 

According to https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMUNI-T%20UT33A%2B%20UK.html the output voltage is 1.0 V (open circuit) and the current (short circuit) 0.31 mA. 

For the ANENG SZ20, I measure 0.53 V and 0.43 mA. 

It usually takes around 0.6V to conduct through a semiconductor junction, so that may explain the difference.

Or, if you mistakenly reversed the + and - terminals between devices.  Polarity doesn't make a difference on resistors, but it does on semiconductors.

i took several measurements between 3 different multimeters and i very much took care to not have reversed the leads

UT33A non plus 23.35Mohms
ZT-225 5.42Mohms
rebranded UT33C non plus (manual range) somewhere around 2.5Mohms

since i have the older version, i will measure its output voltage in resistance mode tomorrow and tell you (i just saw your link and it states the UT33A+ has diode voltage of up to 2.2v and ive measured mine to be up to 1.2v)

also i tried measuring the impedance of both so i put both in resistance mode and tried measuring the ZT-225's resistance in resistance mode from the UT33A but only the ZT-225 showed a reading of about 11.5Mohms which is the same as trying to measure the UT33A impedance from the ZT-225 (so when both are measuring each other in resistance mode  only the ZT-225 shows a reading the UT33A is still 0L)

also by the same guy thats been helping me i was suggested i need a pure resistor and suggested a 10Mohms one and then i could compare both so i guess i could get one of those (but i wouldnt be too surprised if both measured the same still)
 

Offline Aldo22

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #156 on: January 30, 2025, 08:53:40 am »
For the ANENG SZ20, I measure 0.53 V and 0.43 mA. 
It changes with the range.
I measure approx. 520mV in the MΩ ranges and approx. 1V in all other ranges.
When switching on the resistance measurement, it always goes to 1V for a short time.
But yes, for MΩ measurement it is around 520mV in the end.
I say this to avoid misunderstandings.
 
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Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #157 on: January 30, 2025, 12:20:48 pm »
Good point.  The open circuit and short circuit measurements are only two end points on a broad spectrum of possibilities.  The range isn't just changing what's displayed, it's also likely changing how it is acquired in order to provide the optimum current for the required resolution. 

When the resistance is unstable and keeps changing on the screen, it could be active components are responding to the voltage level with each range switch in ways that a resistor wouldn't.
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Offline Aldo22

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #158 on: January 30, 2025, 02:17:19 pm »
I measured the currents in different ranges (short).

Ω    407μA
kΩ1 87μA
kΩ2 9.9μA
kΩ3 1μA
MΩ1 0.11μA
MΩ2 0.11μA
MΩ3 0.11μA
 
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Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #159 on: January 30, 2025, 08:27:12 pm »
I measured the currents in different ranges (short).

Ω    407μA
kΩ1 87μA
kΩ2 9.9μA
kΩ3 1μA
MΩ1 0.11μA
MΩ2 0.11μA
MΩ3 0.11μA

Hi Aldo22, I had the same thought in mind.  I just published a blog showing graphs of tests for different resistance.  Check it out here:

https://www.keepontesting.com/post/how-a-25-000-count-auto-ranging-multimeter-measures-resistance

I'm sure different multimeters use different "gears". 
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Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #160 on: January 30, 2025, 09:30:15 pm »

UT33A non plus 23.35Mohms
ZT-225 5.42Mohms
rebranded UT33C non plus (manual range) somewhere around 2.5Mohms


According to my testing linked above, you can see the ANENG SZ20 test conditions for that range.  The voltage drop for 5.26 Megohm was 0.3479 volts, very close to your test.
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Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #161 on: January 30, 2025, 10:47:38 pm »
I measured the currents in different ranges (short).

Ω    407μA
kΩ1 87μA
kΩ2 9.9μA
kΩ3 1μA
MΩ1 0.11μA
MΩ2 0.11μA
MΩ3 0.11μA

Diode voltage of the UT33A non plus is 1.3v compared to 2.2v of the plus version

So the UT33A in ohms mode in the Mega range outputs around 0.232v

ZT-225 ohms 1.015v
1st k range 1.014v
2nd k 1.006v
3rd k 0.931v
all M 0.535v

Current
UT33A @100ohms 212.68uA

ZT-225
ohms 368.6 UA
1st k 100uA
2nd k 9.9uA
3rd k 0.9-1.0 uA
M ohms too small to read (the UT33A flickers  000.1 for like 250ms)



UT33A non plus 23.35Mohms
ZT-225 5.42Mohms
rebranded UT33C non plus (manual range) somewhere around 2.5Mohms


According to my testing linked above, you can see the ANENG SZ20 test conditions for that range.  The voltage drop for 5.26 Megohm was 0.3479 volts, very close to your test.

Am sorry this all still flies way over my head should I be concerned about such a huge discrepancy in the gm328's circuit resistance between the two dmm ? Which one of the two is the right value ?
 

Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #162 on: January 30, 2025, 11:10:53 pm »

Am sorry this all still flies way over my head should I be concerned about such a huge discrepancy in the gm328's circuit resistance between the two dmm ? Which one of the two is the right value ?

I believe you said someone recommended putting an ohmmeter across the terminals to diagnose an issue.  Problem is, the resistance value reported depends on what meter you attach to it.

Unless you use the exact same multimeter the other person is using, you could get a different result because of the way each ohmmeter was programmed to work.  It sends out a test current, and sees a voltage drop which it can measure.

Neither multimeter has the wrong value from what I can tell, because it's being used on a circuit that isn't passive.  The components behind the output terminals of the GM3238 may react differently based on how much voltage and/or current is applied.

See what happens when you measure the voltage drop across a diode using different multimeters.   The voltage-current curve is not linear.  Therefore, the curve's slope (resistance) detected depends what current you put in.
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Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #163 on: January 30, 2025, 11:54:11 pm »

Am sorry this all still flies way over my head should I be concerned about such a huge discrepancy in the gm328's circuit resistance between the two dmm ? Which one of the two is the right value ?

I believe you said someone recommended putting an ohmmeter across the terminals to diagnose an issue.  Problem is, the resistance value reported depends on what meter you attach to it.

Unless you use the exact same multimeter the other person is using, you could get a different result because of the way each ohmmeter was programmed to work.  It sends out a test current, and sees a voltage drop which it can measure.

Neither multimeter has the wrong value from what I can tell, because it's being used on a circuit that isn't passive.  The components behind the output terminals of the GM3238 may react differently based on how much voltage and/or current is applied.

See what happens when you measure the voltage drop across a diode using different multimeters.   The voltage-current curve is not linear.  Therefore, the curve's slope (resistance) detected depends what current you put in.

Yeah you're right I just remembered that the diode drop reading on screen will depend on its output voltage but for such a big difference in diode voltage the difference doesn't seem that big

So measuring diodes
ZT-225 3.2v
1N4007 0.582v
(Very Small transparent crystal like in appearance) 0.608v

UT33A 1.36v
1N4007 0.512v
Same small crystal like 0.537

UT33C rebranded 2.95v (this one idk if it's supposed to be voltage drop or resistance it doesn't have a way to select either like the other two also its starting to show low battery so readings are likely a little higher than usual)
1N7004 706
Same small crystal like 744

So if I understand correctly I van only compare them with singlr passive components like resistors, voltage etc ?
 

Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #164 on: January 30, 2025, 11:58:19 pm »
What is the ohms the meters report when measuring the resistance of diodes, forward biased of course.
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Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #165 on: January 31, 2025, 12:39:40 am »
What is the ohms the meters report when measuring the resistance of diodes, forward biased of course.
1N4007
ZT-225 2.06M
UT33A 4.55M
UT33C 1.08M ?!

Small crystal like ( measures resistance too in reverse but much higher)
ZT-225 1.49M
UT33A 712-723 K
UT33C 910 K
 
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Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #166 on: February 02, 2025, 03:41:34 am »
so i got some big value resistors today, the difference between old dmm and the ZT-225 is either 0.4 or 0.04 at max in the K range or M range (the ZT-225 being the one reading higher), and at the lower end of resistance by measuring a speaker the old one reads 3.9 and flickers to 4.0 and very briefly to 4.1, the ZT-225 is rock solid on 3.9 ohms

so i think its safe to say this dmm is good (fortunately)



anyway i remember when i first stumbled upon this thread some people were asking about an autocal or some sort of calibration for this unit

and googling around i found someone chinese guy that managed to calibrate his or access that mode after he had made some hardware modifications to his ZT-225 that required a re-calibration

its a BILIBILI video but it requires registration to even enable subtitles, also it seems it requires some sort of smd soldering/desoldering work (which i lack all the tools) from seeing some if his other videos

also saw two other videos from other zoyi dmm and the autucal was accessed trough a jumper/soldering two pads together

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1oT2GYSEcG/
« Last Edit: February 02, 2025, 03:45:17 am by Cosmic_Starlight »
 
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Offline Aldo22

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #167 on: February 02, 2025, 10:35:23 am »
anyway i remember when i first stumbled upon this thread some people were asking about an autocal or some sort of calibration for this unit

and googling around i found someone chinese guy that managed to calibrate his or access that mode after he had made some hardware modifications to his ZT-225 that required a re-calibration

its a BILIBILI video but it requires registration to even enable subtitles, also it seems it requires some sort of smd soldering/desoldering work (which i lack all the tools) from seeing some if his other videos

also saw two other videos from other zoyi dmm and the autucal was accessed trough a jumper/soldering two pads together

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1oT2GYSEcG/

That looks interesting. Unfortunately, I don't understand a word and can't tell from the video how he does it.
Calibration would be nice to have.
 

Offline Aldo22

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #168 on: February 02, 2025, 10:54:46 am »
I have found another fairly new video: https://youtu.be/xKDbI2wXe-g

Strangely enough, the testers rarely mention a feature that distinguishes this meter from others in its class, including the AN870.

The ZT-225 can show you the Vrms value that your scope shows you with DC-coupling.
Other DMMs only show you the Vrms value as with AC-coupling, which is not necessarily the standard on an oscilloscope.
In the example below, you see a 5Vpp square wave with +2.5V offset.
Scope and DMM show approximately the same Vrms value. Other DMMs in this price range would only show 2.5Vrms.
So if the scope and DMM are not in agreement: Turn on AC+DC mode on the ZT-225.
 

Offline danno_cj

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #169 on: February 02, 2025, 08:58:30 pm »
Calibration is quite simple for this multimeter. First you must connect together those two pads from R29. Then from Off go directly to Ohm range and press two times SEL button to enter in calibration mode. Apply 100mV signal and press HOLD to confirm. Now move de switch to DC Volts and feed 10V signal and confirm with HOLD. In the video the user reference voltage was not exactly 10V, his source was 9.999V so the user pressed several times Hold buton until he lowered the value from 10.000 to 9.999. Maybe with another button is possible to raise the value if the voltage source is bit over 10V, I don't know. I would recommend to save the eeprom content before doing anything just to have a comeback way if something go wrong. 

Keep in mind the calibration needs a precise know voltage source and this meter may have not the best liniar precision or thermal stability. It may show exactly 10.000V but this precision can be worse with other values on the same range or in a different range. Also the values wrote on  cheap Chinese voltage source can be off with some degree so the home calibration can do more harm.
 
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Offline Aldo22

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #170 on: February 02, 2025, 10:33:23 pm »
Thank you!  :-+

It's good to know that this option exists.
But you're right, I probably won't try it at the moment.
My ZT-225 is within spec measured against the AD584L reference, except at 2.5V, but there all my DMMs are reading 2mV too low. I think the AD584L is not quite accurate there.
Without a more accurate reference, recalibration probably makes no sense.
 

Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #171 on: February 03, 2025, 01:30:35 am »
Calibration is quite simple for this multimeter. First you must connect together those two pads from R29. Then from Off go directly to Ohm range and press two times SEL button to enter in calibration mode. Apply 100mV signal and press HOLD to confirm. Now move de switch to DC Volts and feed 10V signal and confirm with HOLD. In the video the user reference voltage was not exactly 10V, his source was 9.999V so the user pressed several times Hold buton until he lowered the value from 10.000 to 9.999. Maybe with another button is possible to raise the value if the voltage source is bit over 10V, I don't know. I would recommend to save the eeprom content before doing anything just to have a comeback way if something go wrong. 

Keep in mind the calibration needs a precise know voltage source and this meter may have not the best liniar precision or thermal stability. It may show exactly 10.000V but this precision can be worse with other values on the same range or in a different range. Also the values wrote on  cheap Chinese voltage source can be off with some degree so the home calibration can do more harm.

you beat me to it lol, i just found those instructions too on  a chinese forum not 1 hour ago, anyway its good to finally have precise and clear instructions just in case

Thank you!  :-+

It's good to know that this option exists.
But you're right, I probably won't try it at the moment.
My ZT-225 is within spec measured against the AD584L reference, except at 2.5V, but there all my DMMs are reading 2mV too low. I think the AD584L is not quite accurate there.
Without a more accurate reference, recalibration probably makes no sense.

also during my research the things ive seen the chinese do that i can remember from memory are

access calibration mode

remove flashlight led, or tie to a switch

change crystal from 4mhz to 8mhz

modify specific bits of an address of the eeprom for something about capacitance measurement (also using some math knowin what value the dmm is currently showing) and also various other things

something about changing a "front end capacitor" dunno if this was for speed or convergence or both

something about changing some resistors on the pcb for meassuremets

dimming the screen brighntess a bit by swapping some resistor on pcb

swapping the voltage reference TO-92 for another one with a lower temperature drift

i even saw a photo of one modified to have its backlight color be green instead

ive attached a screenshot of what baidu's ai says users have modified about the unit



 
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Offline Paul T

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #172 on: February 03, 2025, 01:36:40 am »
i even saw a photo of one modified to have its backlight color be green instead
Who would do such a thing to a multimeter?  >:D
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Offline Cosmic_Starlight

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #173 on: February 03, 2025, 01:41:35 am »
for now all i will probably do it is probably just desolder the led "flashlight" since its damn near useless and would help to lower the power usage a bit when the backlight is on (also i dont feel like cutting it up)
 
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Offline Aldo22

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Re: Aneng SZ20 25,000 count, 1uV, 10nA, 20A
« Reply #174 on: February 03, 2025, 09:29:15 am »
Has anyone ever noticed that the ZT-225 is actually incorrectly labeled?  :D
It is not a 25000 counts but a 25499 counts meter.  :-+
This is of course not a big plus, but it just means that the 2.5V of an AD584L voltage reference is displayed with 5 digits, even if the measurement is slightly above 2.5V.
The AN870 strictly stops at 19999 and does not display e.g. 2.0000V.
 
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