Lost leader oscilloscopes

[unimorpheus]

I have been assembling an electronics lab for a while and have acquired a few o-scopes, an arbitrary waveform generator/counter, a few handheld multi-meters and a nice power supply. I would still like to add a high accuracy bench top DMM. After looking for some time there doesn't seem to be the same quality vs price selection you see in oscilloscopes. It seems all 5.5-6 digit bench DMMs are $800 or more, even from Rigol and other Chinese manufacturers. Why don't we see more price / performance competition in other test gear such as DMMs. I understand why cheap spectrum analyzers don't exist buy DMMs aren't near as complex to design, am I missing something or are the oscilloscopes just lost leader items to drive the purchase of other gear?

[CatalinaWOW]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

[XynxNet]

Propably the market opportunities are to small for risking the profits of todays high end multimeters.
Those who need them buy them anyways, those who don't need them buy as cheap as possible.

Scopes is another matter. Hugh dividend from digitalisation and integration. And opening up a new customer base with cheaper scopes.

[unimorpheus]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

Good point but my problem is I am not very familiar with bench DMMs to make the model number/year of manufacture vs. fair price and condition assessment. This is why I have tended to buy new with the exception of my Tek analog scopes. I have a far better understanding of scopes than bench DMMs.

[tautech]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

Good point but my problem is I am not very familiar with bench DMMs to make the model number/year of manufacture vs. fair price and condition assessment. This is why I have tended to buy new with the exception of my Tek analog scopes. I have a far better understanding of scopes than bench DMMs.

Shhh, don't tell anyone but.....
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1103290/#msg1103290

Maybe a month or two away though. 

[nctnico]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

Good point but my problem is I am not very familiar with bench DMMs to make the model number/year of manufacture vs. fair price and condition assessment. This is why I have tended to buy new with the exception of my Tek analog scopes. I have a far better understanding of scopes than bench DMMs.

IMHO you can't go wrong with the industry's 6.5 digit workhorse: the HP 34401A. Since the newer models (Keysight 34461A 34465A) came out there are lots of these for sale.

[unimorpheus]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

Good point but my problem is I am not very familiar with bench DMMs to make the model number/year of manufacture vs. fair price and condition assessment. This is why I have tended to buy new with the exception of my Tek analog scopes. I have a far better understanding of scopes than bench DMMs.

IMHO you can't go wrong with the industry's 6.5 digit workhorse: the HP 34401A. Since the newer models (Keysight 34461A 34465A) came out there are lots of these for sale.

Good call on the HP 34401A. Did a quick eBay search and found what I have always seen. Below $600 these DMMs are pretty banged up w/ no gaurantee of function beyond the sellers, "fully functional" which means nothing. At $650+ they seem to get a lot better but again $100 more dollars and I am buying a new DMM from a different manufacturer w/ warranty.

[nctnico]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

Good point but my problem is I am not very familiar with bench DMMs to make the model number/year of manufacture vs. fair price and condition assessment. This is why I have tended to buy new with the exception of my Tek analog scopes. I have a far better understanding of scopes than bench DMMs.

IMHO you can't go wrong with the industry's 6.5 digit workhorse: the HP 34401A. Since the newer models (Keysight 34461A 34465A) came out there are lots of these for sale.

Good call on the HP 34401A. Did a quick eBay search and found what I have always seen. Below $600 these DMMs are pretty banged up w/ no gaurantee of function beyond the sellers, "fully functional" which means nothing. At $650+ they seem to get a lot better but again $100 more dollars and I am buying a new DMM from a different manufacturer w/ warranty.

I wouldn't consider Rigol or Siglent for anything which needs to be really accurate. A 6.5 digit meter means getting into the black art of volt nuttery to make a reference which is constant over a very long period. The same goes for divider resistors and other critical parts right up to the input connector. Nothing is trivial. Among a few other manufacturers (like Fluke) HP/Agilent/Keysight has a long history of designing high accuracy bench meters with accuracy you can rely on.

[janoc]

Good call on the HP 34401A. Did a quick eBay search and found what I have always seen. Below $600 these DMMs are pretty banged up w/ no gaurantee of function beyond the sellers, "fully functional" which means nothing. At $650+ they seem to get a lot better but again $100 more dollars and I am buying a new DMM from a different manufacturer w/ warranty.

I have got one from eBay recently for 200 euro, with cal valid until mid-2017. The only issues were a slightly dim, but still usable display (easy to replace, there are Chinese sellers for the replacement VFDs for about $50 or you can get the original HP display front panel module too) and cracked rear plastic bezel (easily glued together). It wasn't even dirty, at least nothing a moist rag wouldn't clean right off. The seller had another exactly like that, both coming from some measurement rack.

It was this guy and he has another one of these meters for sale, it seems:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Hewlett-packard-34401-A-multimeter-multimetre-/152397401215

He has 100% feedback, including from sale of several of these meters, so I would believe him that the meter is OK (and mine certainly has been).

So don't dismiss these, you can certainly find a cheap one in decent shape these days. Keysight has stopped supporting them last December, so companies are replacing them with newer models and they are thus available for little money. They just tend to get snapped up quickly.

[tautech]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

Good point but my problem is I am not very familiar with bench DMMs to make the model number/year of manufacture vs. fair price and condition assessment. This is why I have tended to buy new with the exception of my Tek analog scopes. I have a far better understanding of scopes than bench DMMs.

IMHO you can't go wrong with the industry's 6.5 digit workhorse: the HP 34401A. Since the newer models (Keysight 34461A 34465A) came out there are lots of these for sale.

Good call on the HP 34401A. Did a quick eBay search and found what I have always seen. Below $600 these DMMs are pretty banged up w/ no gaurantee of function beyond the sellers, "fully functional" which means nothing. At $650+ they seem to get a lot better but again $100 more dollars and I am buying a new DMM from a different manufacturer w/ warranty.

A 6.5 digit meter means getting into the black art of volt nuttery to make a reference which is constant over a very long period. The same goes for divider resistors and other critical parts right up to the input connector. Nothing is trivial.

Exactly.
Just why it's taken Siglent 2 1/2 years since release of a 5 1/2 digit DMM before they release a 6 1/2 digit model.

[CatalinaWOW]

Buy used.  There is lots of good gear out there for 10 to 20 cents on the new dollar.

Good point but my problem is I am not very familiar with bench DMMs to make the model number/year of manufacture vs. fair price and condition assessment. This is why I have tended to buy new with the exception of my Tek analog scopes. I have a far better understanding of scopes than bench DMMs.

IMHO you can't go wrong with the industry's 6.5 digit workhorse: the HP 34401A. Since the newer models (Keysight 34461A 34465A) came out there are lots of these for sale.

Good call on the HP 34401A. Did a quick eBay search and found what I have always seen. Below $600 these DMMs are pretty banged up w/ no gaurantee of function beyond the sellers, "fully functional" which means nothing. At $650+ they seem to get a lot better but again $100 more dollars and I am buying a new DMM from a different manufacturer w/ warranty.

It is your call on whether you need new, but a quick check on Ebay showed two which would interest me if I was in the market.  I am sure there are others.  If not today, tomorrow.

One for $350, which is "guaranteed working" from a seller with 99.6 positive rating and who accepts returns if you don't agree with his definition of guaranteed working.

Another for $550 which includes manuals and a fresh NIST traceable calibration. 

Neither of these have a warranty, but warranties are mostly good for the infant mortality issue.  No longer a problem for these meters, and the wearout end of the reliability curve is years away.