Any modern alternatives to the Brymen BM867s?

[chickens_are_flying]

Hi all,

I'm thinking to get a another meter around the range of US$150 and through some reading, found the BM867s being decent in terms of features to price. However I realized this meter has been out for some time and wondered if there are any newer/better models to consider that is around this price range?

Likes: Dual display, 500k count mode
Dislikes: 9V battery instead of AA/AAA

Side notes:
- Would likely be getting from tme (is there a coupon or better deal out there?)
- There seems to be a Brymen branded silicone lead sold at welectron (https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BL21S2-T4SC-Silicone-Test-Leads). Are these any good? Is this the equivalent at tme despite the part number difference (https://www.tme.eu/en/details/pp-bm10a/test-leads-sets/brymen/pp-bm-10a/)?
 
Many thanks in advance!

[coromonadalix]

Search  the chipset ic number in other brands

Amprobe
Brymen as you know,, you have the older series with S suffix = better backlight like 859S   who's still very good and hold better on a bench

Greenlee  etc ...

You may find some deals ??

[Specmaster]

Nothing wrong with having a 9v battery, AA and AAA cells can leak and do some serious damage, never seen that with a 9v battery and also don't forget that Fluke used them for years on their 25 and 27 series meters, which have a few over the years and still have a couple and have never had any battery issues. Likewise my Brymen 867S uses 9v and not a problem.

Edit:
Just checked on my Fluke 85, and that also uses the 9v PP3 and so I think that most of if not all Fluke meters will also use the same battery.

[AVGresponding]

Nothing wrong with having a 9v battery, AA and AAA cells can leak and do some serious damage, never seen that with a 9v battery and also don't forget that Fluke used them for years on their 25 and 27 series meters, which have a few over the years and still have a couple and have never had any battery issues. Likewise my Brymen 867S uses 9v and not a problem.

I have seen PP3 leakage, maybe two or three times in my life (52 now). It's vanishingly rare compared to AA/AAA, but it can happen.

[skander36]

"..Dual display, 500k count mode..."
Hard to find this combination today. Even new series from Brymen (7XX) does not keep this.
The question can be: "Why aren't modern altenatives to Brymen 867S?" 

The silicone leads from Brymen are the best in that price. You won't be disappointed.

[Fungus]

I realized this meter has been out for some time

That's usually seen as a good thing in the multimeter world - lots of people are trusting it.

Brymen leads? They're awesome and cheap. Winner winner, chicken dinner.

[chickens_are_flying]

Thanks for everyone's inputs.

9V batteries are just less common in where I live and usually cost more than a pack of 4 AA/AAA alkalines. Plus as I recall dave did mention in one of the videos about how AA/AAA can provide more energy capacity if the meter is designed to be bigger. However, I might just get one of the li-po based 9V batteries if I end up with a meter using that.

Sounds great for the brymen leads, but can anyone confirm the one on tme is in fact silicone? I can't find much info based on that part number (PP-BM10A) and it is different from the one welectron is carrying, which they did specify as silicone.

 

[Fungus]

9V batteries are just less common in where I live and usually cost more than a pack of 4 AA/AAA alkalines.

They're less common everywhere, but I bet you can get them if you try.

I'm sure Amazon will be happy to send you hundreds of them, or you can get a rechargeable one.

[Specmaster]

Thanks for everyone's inputs.

9V batteries are just less common in where I live and usually cost more than a pack of 4 AA/AAA alkalines.
 

Well I consider both Fluke and Brymen to be the two top brands and as such you have to wonder why it is that they both use the PP3 9v battery, it certainly is not because they wont last long. As to the amount of power they can supply, modern LCD meter do not need or consume much power at all and a 9v battery will normally last years, but I'd hate to leave any AA/AAA batteries that amount of time in nice expensive meter for duration because of their tendency to leak and in the process inflict terrible damage on the equipment they were powering.

And yes, 9v batteries are less common than AA/AAA's that's because the latter are used in devices that demand more power like, radio's, torches and toys etc, but wherever I see AA/AAAs for sale, I also always see some 9v PP3's for sale, so you should not have any problem in sourcing them.

[skander36]

Sounds great for the brymen leads, but can anyone confirm the one on tme is in fact silicone? I can't find much info based on that part number (PP-BM10A) and it is different from the one welectron is carrying, which they did specify as silicone.

Yes, it's silicone. I have this model leads. Also they have the best contact surface on the pins, from all my leads that I have.

[Pars]

I too could use a second DMM as my bench HP3468a and Fluke 89 IV are my only meters. I am looking at the Brymen BM867S, and also some test leads. I have Mueller and some PeakTech leads that I think I bought from TME. The PeakTech are shrouded pluggable both ends with PeakTech pincer clips which plug on. I was looking at the Brymen PP BM 10A that were recommended here, but wondered if:

• These will accept a screw-on test clip such as the Mueller BU-00207?
• Are there adapters available that allow the shrouded ends to plug into an older piece of gear, such as my HP bench meter?

The leads must be 600Vdc capable. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Veteran68]

9v batteries absolutely do leak. I once bought a bulk pack (8 or 10) of 9v alkalines from a major big-box home improvement store. A year or so later, after using maybe 4-5 of them, I went to get another and the remaining batteries and the box were all crusty and green. I'd never seen that much battery leakage at one time, especially from 9v's and with brand-new unused batteries still in the package. I immediately confiscated the rest that I had already installed in devices as I didn't trust them.

I too tend to prefer AA/AAA for convenience, both in terms of flexibility and ease of charging (out of all of my various chargers, I *might* have one that charges a 9v). But I also have devices including meters (e.g. my Fluke 87V) that take 9v batteries and they work fine. I certainly wouldn't consider that a deal breaker for a meter that met all of my other requirements.

[skander36]

I too could use a second DMM as my bench HP3268 and Fluke 89 are my only meters. I am looking at the Brymen BM867S, and also some test leads. I have Mueller and some PeakTech leads that I think I bought from TME. The PeakTech are shrouded pluggable both ends with PeakTech pincer clips which plug on. I was looking at the Brymen PP BM 10A that were recommended here, but wondered if:

• These will accept a screw-on test clip such as the Mueller BU-00207?
• Are there adapters available that allow the shrouded ends to plug into an older piece of gear, such as my HP bench meter?

The leads must be 600Vdc capable. Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi!
I don't know about HP3268, but for accessories it all depends on tip thread. 
My accesories are not threaded but are compatilble with this probes.

[Calvin]

Hi,

I use the 867S on a daily basis and had no issues with a 9V block or the DMM itself.
The connector certainly looks and feels too flimsy, but it does the job.
Sometimes I just wished that the Brymen allowed for a higher Diode test voltage, possible with 9V.
The 500.000 count setting is the one I use most ... daily checks of thermocouple elements.,
The silicon probes are really good, especially at their price point.
I'd use them throughout if I didn't use Probe Master 8017.

jauu
Calvin

[coromonadalix]

You have the new 780 series

The 789  Brymen
The 786  EEVblog participation, design  etc ...

[james_s]

I much prefer a 9V battery to AA. 9V batteries rarely leak and if they do you can easily replace the battery snap. AA batteries almost always leak, and when that happens it often destroys custom terminals in the battery compartment. In both cases now I use LSD NiMH rechargeable, haven't had one of those leak yet.

[BeBuLamar]

Like someone posted earlier a lot of Fluke meters use 9V batteries including the standard 87V. Fluke do use AA batteries in other DMM like 287/289 and although the 6 AA hold a lot more energy than 1 9V battery they don't last long in those meters at all. So if they use AA it means that the DMM is a power hungry one. Other Fluke use 3AAA batteries.

[robert.rozee]

I have seen PP3 leakage, maybe two or three times in my life (52 now). It's vanishingly rare compared to AA/AAA, but it can happen.

i've had a us$350 fluke multimeter destroyed by a leaking PP3 (9v) battery. i found this quite upsetting. also several other multimeters (non-fluke) badly damaged by leaking AA cells, not to mention various vintage calculators.

note that a non-rechargable PP3 battery may contain one of several different cell configurations internally, including:
1. 6x AAAA (cylinderical) alkaline,
2. 6x AAAA (cylinderical) zinc-carbon,
3. a stack of rectangular zinc-carbon cells, usually wax coated,
4. a stack of rectangular alkaline cells, usually plastic encased.

each configuration will have different 'leak characteristics'. when fluke started using PP3 batteries back in the 1980's, by far the most common variety was composed of rectangular zinc-carbon cells with a wax coating. added to this is anecdotal evidence that modern alkaline cells in batches randomly have a propensity to leak, where one brand may have no problems one year, but a high rate of leakage in another year.

i believe that the reality is many alkaline (in particular) cells and batteries manufactured these days are of poor and/or inconsistent quality and should not be trusted in anything other than 'disposable' products. ie: torches, smoke alarms, children's toys.


my apologies to the original poster for going so far off topic.


cheers,
rob   :-)

[BeBuLamar]

I don't know when Brymen first released the 867s but I don't think it's too long ago. I think I am using much older DMM than it and having no problem with old design. Also for $150 and 500,000 counts it's hard to find something else that offers that.

[J-R]

I don't see leaking batteries as a sure thing, it can depend on the specific battery, storage conditions like temperature/humidity and whether the device has any always-on draw.  Personally, I have no equipment that has been damaged by leaking batteries and I can count on one hand the batteries I've seen leak in my lifetime.  In those cases I only needed to clean the contacts.

The BM86x is at least 10 years old and the s versions are just small tweaks.  I suppose the demand isn't high enough for additional features like Bluetooth or on-device graphing or whatever, and implementing that along with maintaining additional code can add quite a bit of cost.  Hence the reason their Windows application hasn't really even changed in 20 years?

But also just because a device is old doesn't mean it's not capable and still very usable.  Another reason for slow development I suppose.

[Pars]

Now I'm debating between the BM867 and the eevblog BM786. They appear to be ~ the same price more or less. I have a Fluke 89 IV and an HP3468a (IIRC, have to look at it). I am building an electrostatic headphone amp and need 2 meters which can handle 400-500Vdc, which the HP bench meter cannot. My harbor freight Centronic or whatever cheapie was over 100V off on the bias measurement (580V), so need something else. I need two meters to balance the offset, etc.

Any thoughts between the 2? The temp measurement on the 786 would be handy to measure heatsink/device temps as this amp runs hot. The Fluke has temp on it, need a thermocouple however.

[J-R]

The 500,000 counts mode on the BM86x is very limited, as in only usable for DC V/mV and also of limited accuracy.  I've also observed drifting and filtering that makes it iffy to use even just for relative measurements.  However, calibrated and stabilized it can be of SOME use ultimately.  Your mileage may vary.  A bench meter seems more desirable for breaking the 50k/60k count barrier if your goal is lots of trustworthy digits.

The BM78x battery life is still only about 100 hours from the 3 AAA batteries, although they are easier to change I suppose.  No interface options, no dual display.

I still find the 121GW compelling with the 600 hours of battery life and Bluetooth, although it could better if development would continue bit more.  I think they want to protect the sales of their non-EEVblog DMMs...

For regular, daily 500VDC use, I would vote for a dedicated high voltage probe.  Keep the high voltages over by the device, not on the DMM right in front of you?

Also, maybe just skip the BM867s and get the BM869s?

[coromonadalix]

If you need real counts over 60k

100k  Go with an Chauvin Arnoux  Metrix MTX3292  MTX3293

300k  Gossens 28 and 29s   but slow on display speed   

80k   are the Vici VICHY VC8145    lolll   

there was an rare 80k count handheld  meter,  can't recall the model  ...


Now  most of the average big brand meters are stuck at 60k counts

I would pick  known "good ones" relaibility proven, price is second ...

My Amprobe AM-140a is solid and stable,  and  it runs on 9v battery   once again  the 500k count gimmick  is not used very often
I do hate opening it if i blow a fuse

Battery life  is so-so,  it doesn't beat  my fluke 189 AA  batteries (energizer) or i put the fluke 189 battery pack  for a beautiful +/- 400hrs of fun  loll

I would say  nothing beats some flukes with the huge battery cover who give access to the fuses,  Mastech had one too for an 22k count dmm

Had sold an Brymen 857s   witch i regret selling it

[Pars]

Thank you for the thoughts. Other than this amp that I am building, my needs rarely go over 60Vdc, so the higher voltages aren't a regular occurrence. The Fluke 89 has been a very dependable meter for me, but I bought it used several years ago before DMM prices skyrocketed. Battery life (4xAA) hasn't been an issue for me with it, and I have spare battery contacts for it. I use Duracells in it. I had been looking at used Flukes, but find that one of the Brymens that I am looking at is often cheaper that these are used. Some of the used Flukes appear to have had a hard life as well.

I also don't need PC interfaces, bar graphs or any of that, so maybe I am looking at more meter than I need as I only use these for hobbyist purposes (audio equipment mainly). The prices in the $150 USD range is acceptable for something that will give dependable readings, normally DCV or resistance measurements (matching), as well as uA/mA if I am doing BJT matching.

Regarding counts, I'm not knowledgeable enough on this to know what the benefits/drawbacks are. I guess I would need to do a LOT more reading on this board to begin to understand the subject. Looking up the Fluke 89 I have, it states 50,000 count for the primary display, which has certainly been acceptable for my use.

[graybeard]

I use rechargeable “9V” batteries in my meters.  I use both NiMH and LiIon versions.  They work great and are much less expensive if you use them frequently.