Author Topic: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?  (Read 96590 times)

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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #375 on: October 06, 2018, 07:20:26 pm »
I did not expect this....

I just looked at my original genuine "Keysight" branded 82357B and the "Functional Test Certificate" that came with it. Interestingly enough, the serial numbers don't match !

The serial number on the device can be traced on the Keysight website.
MY563...

The serial number on the certificate can NOT be traced on the Keysight website.
MY555...

Hmmm, who knows, may be something strange is still going on with this device at the Keysight production or packaging facility.

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Offline zucca

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #376 on: October 09, 2018, 01:00:42 am »
Seems like Keysight has a feeling for that  ^-^:



Source:
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/82357-90003.pdf

More over RTFM, it looks like the serial number is used in the SW, so it must be stored in somewhere inside the 82357B.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 01:02:31 am by zucca »
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Offline tkamiya

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #377 on: October 09, 2018, 07:36:16 am »
I had a conversation with an owner of a local calibration lab.  I told him I ended up with a counterfeit HP82357B.  He laughed and said all of them are fake!  (I'm sure he meant on secondary market)  According to him, they usually work just as well and so much cheaper.  I guess this is a well known thing in the industry.

I guess there are some good fakes and bad fakes?

He showed me a copy of an HP cable that even said "Made in USA".  According to him, it's a fake.  Whomever copied the original did so EXACTLY.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #378 on: October 09, 2018, 01:03:16 pm »
Possible. Even in the earlier discussions of this adapter, there were photos of some units that were more obviously fake. In other product categories (e.g., watches or handbags), there are different grades of counterfeits, with corresponding prices reflecting the quality of "fakemanship."
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #379 on: October 09, 2018, 07:11:34 pm »
Seems like Keysight has a feeling for that  ^-^:

More over RTFM, it looks like the serial number is used in the SW, so it must be stored in somewhere inside the 82357B.
Interesting, Zucca

In Figure 1-1 of this manual page, they forgot to show the  "Functional Test Certificate"
And in the text above it, they call it the "82357B Certificate of Calibration"
With all this confusion, it seems easy to bring fake items on to the market.

As to the working ability of the fake adapters:
I had two of them and one was working perfectly and the other one always gave me problems and I thought it was software related, until this thread was opened.
But at the beginning of this thread, I still believed my fake one was real, until I opened them all! :-DD
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 07:13:24 pm by HighVoltage »
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Offline ekeppel

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #380 on: December 09, 2018, 12:59:34 pm »
I did not expect this....

I just looked at my original genuine "Keysight" branded 82357B and the "Functional Test Certificate" that came with it. Interestingly enough, the serial numbers don't match !

The serial number on the device can be traced on the Keysight website.
MY563...

The serial number on the certificate can NOT be traced on the Keysight website.
MY555...

Hmmm, who knows, may be something strange is still going on with this device at the Keysight production or packaging facility.

@HighVoltage

Let me preface this post by saying that I have *not* had occasion to examine a genuine Keysight-branded GPID adapter personally, so take this with a grain of salt please. :) 
 
Having said that, did you happen to open this one up and see if everything is up to Keysight standards?  I'm not entirely clear from your post if this was purchased directly from Keysight or through another vendor.  It may be my own 'counterfeit paranoia' talking, but to me something just doesn't look right about the way that copper paint is applied near the screw.  I've noticed that counterfeiters will often modify their products to make them appear more legit once notable differences from the real thing become known to consumers, even gleaning such information from forums like this one, so... 

I don't know why, but the impression that I get when I see your second photo is that the paint was sprayed on there 'for show', and may not truly extend to the inside of the device.  On the less-paranoid side, the differences in paint application from the genuine Agilent branded ones that I've seen may be simply due to slight changes made when the Keysight re-branding took effect. :-//

I hope that I'm proven wrong here, since it would eliminate the easiest method (that I'm aware of) for differentiating the genuine article from the fakes without opening the case.

--
On the topic of fakes, it's getting really bad out there with counterfeits, even down to the component level.  I recently ordered some ST-branded 2N3055s on eBay, and they were all fake.  I still had a few genuine ones from Mouser to compare to, and even the external differences were obvious.  Sure enough, though rated for over 15A, the eBay ones consistently blew at just a couple of amps when tested under load.  :--  Had I used them to repair the PSU I was working on at the time, they would have likely fried anything hooked it.  I went looking around online, and sure enough there are YouTube videos of folks cutting open the metal cases of these things to see what was inside.  Compared to the real ones, the fakes contained only a tiny undersized piece of silicon with no chance of handling their rated current.

I now buy components like that only from a trusted source such as Digi-Key, Mouser, etc.  Lesson learned.  Unfortunately, most hobbyists such as myself can't afford to pay Keysight's retail price for something like this GPIB adapter, so we're forced to navigate the land of make-believe in hopes of finding the real thing.   :palm:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 01:05:55 pm by ekeppel »
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #381 on: December 09, 2018, 02:39:15 pm »
Are the prologix gpib adapters compatible with hp equipement  ?,  if so im not aware of any counterfeit item in this brand ?
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #382 on: December 09, 2018, 03:27:36 pm »
Are the prologix gpib adapters compatible with hp equipement  ?,  if so im not aware of any counterfeit item in this brand ?

When a US company that has no Chinese distributors and you can buy a product for 25% less than from the manufacturer out of China I suspect there may be a bit of an issue with cloning.
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Online TheSteve

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #383 on: December 09, 2018, 03:32:36 pm »
Are the prologix gpib adapters compatible with hp equipement  ?,  if so im not aware of any counterfeit item in this brand ?

gpib = gpib, so they they will talk to the equipment no problem. However if you wanted to use any HPAK produced software etc it won't work with Prologix adapters.
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Online alm

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #384 on: December 09, 2018, 08:34:34 pm »
The instrument side will be very similar and mostly compatible (IEEE 488.1 and related standards). The computer side not so much. There are some industry standards here (the gpib-32 low-level library, the GPIB resource in VISA), but last time I checked, Prologix didn't implement any of them.

This means that generally software developed for the Prologix interface will not work without modifications on a Keysight / NI / ICS / Tektronix interface, and the other way around. The latter includes pretty much any software made by an instrument manufacturer (e.g. BenchVue), any LabVIEW driver and IVI drivers. Open source / hobby initiatives seem split, but in general the industry standard ones seem to be better supported there.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #385 on: December 09, 2018, 09:02:31 pm »
Having said that, did you happen to open this one up and see if everything is up to Keysight standards?  I'm not entirely clear from your post if this was purchased directly from Keysight or through another vendor.  It may be my own 'counterfeit paranoia' talking, but to me something just doesn't look right about the way that copper paint is applied near the screw.  I've noticed that counterfeiters will often modify their products to make them appear more legit once notable differences from the real thing become known to consumers, even gleaning such information from forums like this one, so... 


Yes, I did open this one up and it is a genuine Keysight part that came from a reputable distributor.
Probably some unlikely but possible paperwork mixup at the Keysight factory.

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Offline ekeppel

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #386 on: December 10, 2018, 10:41:55 am »
Excellent.  So at least for now we are safe if we see the copper overspray.  Thanks! :-+
 

Offline macboy

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #387 on: December 11, 2018, 04:05:13 am »
Are the prologix gpib adapters compatible with hp equipement  ?,  if so im not aware of any counterfeit item in this brand ?
The Prologix adapters can talk to the instruments, but can your software talk to the Prologix adapter? Every other GPIB adapter on the market, from Agilent, NI, or whoever, comes with APIs and DLLs conforming to standards, and this allows compatibility between software and adapters. Prologix is the exception, they don't have a VISA layer or a GPIB-32.DLL or any other standardized interface. Some homebrew software supports the Prologix adapters but don't expect most professional software to do so.

In this case, I'd lean toward the cloned 82357b. It may be fake, but it is a 1:1 copy, including the GPIB bus driver ICs. These are glaringly missing from the Prologix one. Instead, it depends on the logic levels of the microcontroller inputs (are they true TTL levels as required?), and the drive strength of the micro's outputs (can they sink 48 mA of current on all lines at the same time? Hm...), and the ESD input protection of the micro as well. These are the things that those bus driver ICs are designed to handle.
 


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