Anyone noticed that Rohde & Schwarz is blocking firmware informations / updates?

[alonsojar]

I also received that today, but it's probably an automatic note issued because the time spent since our registration attempt. It can be true there are delays due to mass registration of people with customer enterprise domains.

In my case Ive got a very explicit answer from their 'support' team in Munich explaining that I cannot get support nor registration with them because my generic mail address is against its MYC (meet your customer??) policies.
Let's wait and see, but I don't expect any change. Just my opinión.

[eTobey]

I also received that today, but it's probably an automatic note issued because the time spent since our registration attempt. It can be true there are delays due to mass registration of people with customer enterprise domains.

In my case Ive got a very explicit answer from their 'support' team in Munich explaining that I cannot get support nor registration with them because my generic mail address is against its MYC (meet your customer??) policies.
Let's wait and see, but I don't expect any change. Just my opinión.

Have you asked them what this MYC is?

[KungFuJosh]

A lot of hobbyists tinkering with the big boy equipment have day jobs where they also work with this kind of stuff. Pissing the hobbyists off just means pissing off part of your customer base. They'll just remember the company as troublesome and unreliable and pick another brand, because no company wants to deal with that.

100% correct. That's the same reason a lot of schools use specific brands for what they teach on. Companies know that, and they'll give the schools a good deal on the equipment so when those students graduate and work professionally, they'll think of those brands first. Unless they had a problem getting a firmware update or manual for some reason. 🤔

[alonsojar]

Have you asked them what this MYC is?

Sorry, my mistake... That's the exact excerpt of the answer I mentioned:

Thank you for sending us your inquiry.
We noticed that you've contacted us via an open source email address like @gmail, @outlook etc.
Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process, we need a company email address to verify your affiliation with the company you are registered as employee .....

I googled KYC and this is probably meaning "Know Your Customer", not exactly Meet 

[rf-messkopf]

Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process

Some quick googling on "KYC" seems to indicate a relation with EU requirements for banks and financial service providers to prevent money laundering. Not something that seems particularly relevant for test gear manuals and firmware updates.

I still think that this is some kind of "business optimization" done by clueless people, and that the "KYC" thing is just a bullshit buzzword being slapped on it.

[eTobey]

Have you asked them what this MYC is?

Sorry, my mistake... That's the exact excerpt of the answer I mentioned:

Thank you for sending us your inquiry.
We noticed that you've contacted us via an open source email address like @gmail, @outlook etc.
Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process, we need a company email address to verify your affiliation with the company you are registered as employee .....

I googled KYC and this is probably meaning "Know Your Customer", not exactly Meet 

You should have ASKED. Dont just sit there and be sad about it. Be curious and furious!

I think i found the answer:
You will find that KYC is used to prevent money laundry and scams. So it seems this will be the end of manuals and firmwares of R&S for hobbyist`s...

[bson]

My guess is "consumer rights". I am not familiar with any legal details, but particularly in the EU there seem to be so many obligations when you sell to consumers, which either don't apply at all or can be negotiated in business-to-business relationships: Compulsory warranty, liability, localized manuals, WEEE electronic waste collection, etc. Life becomes easier when you can credibly show that you only cater to business customers.

This is my guess too.  Documentation and marketing collateral becomes legally binding offers and promises.  A consumer can destroy the frontend of a VNA in ten seconds, then turn around and demand it be fixed or replaced under warranty, pointing to consumer protection laws.  A consumer by their very nature is not supposed to be what in the U.S. is called "an expert in the field", no pressing of buttons or plugging things in is supposed to destroy $30k worth of equipment without warning.  Consumers have rights to third-party repair, legal recourse if a firmware update bricks a device, and so on.  Lots and lots of legal protections that simply don't exist in B2B, where unless it's stipulated in the purchase agreement it doesn't exist.  Industrial customers are expected to be "experts in the field" and able to do their own evaluations and consider their purchases.  Of course, a voltmeter might be more durable, but it's still requires being prepared to handle consumer protection laws, interact with government agencies to resolve complaints, etc.

In the U.S. whether a sale falls under an industrial or consumer rubric depends on the item sold.  In the EU it depends on the buying legal entity, whether it's a private individual specifically.  I think the latter is a problem, as it effectively risks preventing private individuals from buying industrial equipment.  (And T&M is categorized as industrial in the U.S.)  U.S. law also excludes statutory consumer protections from parts and kits, but the EU doesn't and I would fear even more than T&M that if I lived in the EU eventually component distributors would stop wanting to do business with me as well.

[eTobey]

I still think that this is some kind of "business optimization" done by clueless people, and that the "KYC" thing is just a bullshit buzzword being slapped on it.

More and more is going to be controlled, every bloody receipt has and unique ID if you go to the grocery store, so i think its not just a buzzword...

[Sensorcat]

Thank you for sending us your inquiry.
We noticed that you've contacted us via an open source email address like @gmail, @outlook etc.
Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process, we need a company email address to verify your affiliation with the company you are registered as employee .....

I googled KYC and this is probably meaning "Know Your Customer", not exactly Meet 

That's a ridiculously stupid approach from them. This forum with it's mixed hobby/pro audience is the proof that you cannot (any more) have a different reputation with different groups, because people talk and write, crossing all former boundaries. And then they believe that they 'KYC' because the customer has a domain/website. As if they don't know how the internet works. At 2$ or € per month, any provider happily helps you to mimic a company if you like ("On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog!"). They should put their energy into providing products and service to convince all people that their products are still worth the premium. But if buying Keysight or R&S means trouble, why not buying cheap instead? My long-term conclusion, regarding the topic of this thread and many similar observations in the last two decades: The fate of a company in a technology-driven market is sealed when the business people take over. Not that their failure has immediate effect, but they ruin everything in one or two product life cycles, such that the once proud company becomes easy prey for competitors which work as the tech-oriented predecessors did. Sadly, that is not what you learn in an MBA program. And the next quarter, business-wise, will still be fine...

[rf-messkopf]

This is my guess too.  Documentation and marketing collateral becomes legally binding offers and promises.  A consumer can destroy the frontend of a VNA in ten seconds, then turn around and demand it be fixed or replaced under warranty, pointing to consumer protection laws.  A consumer by their very nature is not supposed to be what in the U.S. is called "an expert in the field", no pressing of buttons or plugging things in is supposed to destroy $30k worth of equipment without warning.  Consumers have rights to third-party repair, legal recourse if a firmware update bricks a device, and so on.  Lots and lots of legal protections that simply don't exist in B2B, where unless it's stipulated in the purchase agreement it doesn't exist.  Industrial customers are expected to be "experts in the field" and able to do their own evaluations and consider their purchases.  Of course, a voltmeter might be more durable, but it's still requires being prepared to handle consumer protection laws, interact with government agencies to resolve complaints, etc.

In the U.S. whether a sale falls under an industrial or consumer rubric depends on the item sold.  In the EU it depends on the buying legal entity, whether it's a private individual specifically.  I think the latter is a problem, as it effectively risks preventing private individuals from buying industrial equipment.  (And T&M is categorized as industrial in the U.S.)  U.S. law also excludes statutory consumer protections from parts and kits, but the EU doesn't and I would fear even more than T&M that if I lived in the EU eventually component distributors would stop wanting to do business with me as well.

I don't think so. All the consumer rights (like right to return, warranty, right of repair or cancellation etc.) are a thing between the distributor and the buyer. The manufacturer would be largely out of the equation (for cheap stuff from a retailer this could, after all, be a Shenzhen backyard shop). The manufacturer's responsibility is only to deliver a product that has the guaranteed properties and that is marketable within the EU, i.e. has a CE mark which shows that it conforms to the relevant EU directives (and even this duty could be transferable to a retailer or importer). And these requirements would be the same in a B2B contract.

I can still buy all R&S gear that is carried by the distributors, no problem. It is just that R&S has jump me through hoops now to get a manual or a firmware update by requiring me to ask the distributor. R&S can point to them since they are my contractual partner in this case and have to deliver a manual, which is a requirement in the B2B and B2C case alike (notice that the product safety terms are still shipped with the gear as a hardcopy, since this is required by the General Product Safety Regulation). This all has no bearing on consumer rights whatsoever. It is just bad service and it does make R&S gear unattractive for me as there are more convenient options available on the market (Keysight is one example).

[rf-messkopf]

You will find that KYC is used to prevent money laundry and scams. So it seems this will be the end of manuals and firmwares of R&S for hobbyist`s...

Would you care to explain how I could use my test gear manuals for money laundering? 

[eTobey]

You will find that KYC is used to prevent money laundry and scams. So it seems this will be the end of manuals and firmwares of R&S for hobbyist`s...

Would you care to explain how I could use my test gear manuals for money laundering? 

Indeed that sounds quite stupid... Its more like a roundup way of resolving issues: there will be rarely growing anything else.
Putting B2B in place to comply with KYC and in doing so, destroying other things... 

[m k]

Can it be because of sanctions against Russia?
Some sanctioned functions are included and can't be separated.
So only accounts that are accountable are accepted.
(not very rational idea)

[jjoonathan]

Yeah, bureaucracies grow in weird ways and the history leaves an imprint. My favorite example is US Export Control: if you are exporting something mundane, the classification is EAR-99 in category "CATEGORY 0 - NUCLEAR MATERIALS,. FACILITIES, AND ... " It's not because grandma's teapot is suspected to contain enriched plutonium, it's because the first thing to be export controlled was nuclear material so that's where the code for miscellaneous items is. Everything else was just tacked on later.

[phs]

Was getting same R&S website dysfunction as mikeselectricstuff.  Yesterday got an email from R&S:
...
"
Thank you for registering to access to the Rohde & Schwarz customer portal. The registration process is currently taking longer than usual due to ongoing system updates. Please rest assured that our team is working to process registrations as quickly as possible.
We truly appreciate your understanding and patience during this time of transition. If you have any immediate questions, please feel free to contact us.
Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz Customer Support"
...

This has created a big deal with our partners.  The old adage still holds true -- the customer must come first!  There's no way to tell how any of your customers may affect your sales in the future -- no matter how small they are when they put their trust in you, as a company, and spend their hard-earned money on your products.

Shame on R&S

Edited: Tone of message due to frustration about our wasted time.

[jjoonathan]

The site is still broken but customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com is sending out sharepoint links.

I'm still worried about where this is headed, but for the moment support was able to get me what I needed.

[eTobey]

If they want to change their policy, fine. But if they messed up while doing so, they could just undo it for now (unless their IT is incapable of doing so) and have downloads without account. Then they fix their mistakes, and set downloads to "account only" again.

[jjoonathan]

They approved me for access to LCX, RTO1000, RTO2000 this morning and I can now see documents + firmware on the site itself without emailing anyone. How is it going for everyone else?

[mahi]

They approved me for access to LCX, RTO1000, RTO2000 this morning and I can now see documents + firmware on the site itself without emailing anyone.

Do you mean you have only access to the devices you own(ed)? You can't, for example, get the user manuals or firmware changelogs for other devices ? Or is this a temporary situation until R&S gets things sorted out?

[KungFuJosh]

It's funny how quickly my future plans for something from the MXO series vanished.

[jjoonathan]

No, those were the files I specifically requested (and received) and the sections where I specifically clicked on the "Get Access" button. However, it looks like I now have access to everything. I just checked and I can download ZNA and FSW (and RTE and MXO) manuals and firmware even though I never clicked "Get Access" on those pages or sent emails specifically requesting those files.

The rollout was rough but the eventual policy position seems to be more or less aligned with Keysight and LeCroy. I can live with that.

EDIT: mild emphasis

[chilternview]

Had an email this morning from R&S saying 'You can now access and enjoy "Product Downloads" immediately'.

So I immediately logged in and sure enough I can download the latest firmware for my RTM3000.

[Calvin]

Hi,

what does KYC stand for?

Kill Your Chicken 

Calvin

[jjoonathan]

I'm just glad that it wasn't MYC, which I assume meant "Mow Your Customer" in reference to Larry "The Lawnmower" Ellison.

[eTobey]

It would be good, if someone could download all the manuals and put them up somewhere. Especially the old hameg manuals. For the hobbyists...